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Bhen and his clutch argument


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1 minute ago, f7ben said:

You don’t have a clue.....hence your inability to give the slightest answer 

Your inability to read into my answer just further tells me you shouldn’t even own BBQ tools.....and the hoods on all your vehicles should be locked tight only to be opened by a qualified technician.

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Just now, Zambroski said:

Your inability to read into my answer just further tells me you shouldn’t even own BBQ tools.....and the hoods on all your vehicles should be locked tight only to be opened by a qualified technician.

Listen you stupid faggot ass cocksucker.....You are fucking clueless. You can’t even begin to answer because you know nothing 

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28 minutes ago, Tommcat said:

I think I'd have a better shot explaining it to my dog.

I love how you wouldn’t say a peep about D&Ds slingshot flash on HCS :lol: Fucking chicken shit know nothing little pussy 

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10 hours ago, f7ben said:

You started the thread man....you ride the sled. Do you feel like the stock clutching works or not?

For 95%+ of riders stock clutching is absolutely fine.

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5 minutes ago, Highmark said:

For 95%+ of riders stock clutching is absolutely fine.

So if you turn boost up 5lbs what will change about the way the clutching works?

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8 hours ago, f7ben said:

Listen you stupid faggot ass cocksucker.....You are fucking clueless. You can’t even begin to answer because you know nothing 

Tired Insidethefactory GIF by BBC - Find & Share on GIPHY

1 minute ago, Highmark said:

For 95%+ of riders stock clutching is absolutely fine.

This is probably accurate and the stock clutching is set by the factory to work about as good as it ever will in a wide variety of conditions. "All-around good clutching".  Doo used to have this pretty well dialed in.  I think (hear) Poo does now.

STILL, this doesn't mean clutch modifications/improvements should be rejected when starting to boost and target performance areas.  To think that is just silly as hell.  I mean, totally absurd.  I.E. Mind numbingly, fucking stupid.

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5 minutes ago, f7ben said:

So if you turn boost up 5lbs what will change about the way the clutching works?

Plenty of things.   To start you will likely over rev.   You also could upshift much faster than  your secondary can handle causing slippage there.   You don't want to start a clutching debate with me Ben.   I actually design and build a CVT product.   Do you build products containing CVT's? 

My comment holds true.   For the vast majority of riders stock clutching these days is very good.   Most riders you can make a change on their sled and ask how is it.   They will say oh man that's really great.   Then you ask them how its better and they have zero clue as to why.   Vast majority of people have zero butt dyno awareness.  

Edited by Highmark
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1 minute ago, Zambroski said:

Tired Insidethefactory GIF by BBC - Find & Share on GIPHY

This is probably accurate and the stock clutching is set by the factory to work about as good as it ever will in a wide variety of conditions. "All-around good clutching".  Doo used to have this pretty well dialed in.  I think (hear) Poo does now.

STILL, this doesn't mean clutch modifications/improvements should be rejected when starting to boost and target performance areas.  To think that is just silly as hell.  I mean, totally absurd.  I.E. Mind numbingly, fucking stupid.

This.

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1 minute ago, Zambroski said:

Tired Insidethefactory GIF by BBC - Find & Share on GIPHY

This is probably accurate and the stock clutching is set by the factory to work about as good as it ever will in a wide variety of conditions. "All-around good clutching".  Doo used to have this pretty well dialed in.  I think (hear) Poo does now.

STILL, this doesn't mean clutch modifications/improvements should be rejected when starting to boost and target performance areas.  To think that is just silly as hell.  I mean, totally absurd.  I.E. Mind numbingly, fucking stupid.

Why do you change the argument? Nobody said there wouldn’t be gains from clutching. 

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1 minute ago, Highmark said:

Plenty of things.   To start you will likely over rev.   You also could upshift much faster than  your secondary can handle causing slippage there.   You don't want to start a clutching debate with me Ben.   I actually design and build a CVT product.  

My comment holds true.   For the vast majority of riders stock clutching these days is very good.   Most riders you can make a change on their sled and ask how is it.   They will say oh man that's really great.   Then you ask them how its better and they have zero clue as to why.   Vast majority of people have zero butt dyno awareness.  

Please define “over rev”  as it relates to a turbo motor

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5 minutes ago, f7ben said:

Why do you change the argument? Nobody said there wouldn’t be gains from clutching. 

You've said from the start that clutching has basically no benefits in sled modding.  Now, I know you are still trying to morph this into some type of win for you but...it's a big fail.  Go sit down.

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13 minutes ago, f7ben said:

Please define “over rev”  as it relates to a turbo motor

Turbo motors also have a desired power band.   Yes their over rev loses much less even by the time you hit your rev limiter.

2021 998 Cat loses 10 hp between 8600 and 9100.   Yes adding boost (and at what point) can change this curve significantly but every motor will lose power at a certain point. 

Like the old Tcats most aftermarket pipes were more about where the peak HP was than how much it added.   That's why companies could advertise 20 HP gain over stock and still be accurate.   Was the 20 HP at 8500 where the factory sweet spot was....no it was at 8800 where stock pipes were down 15hp and you lost a ton clutched there with stock pipes but with an added 5hp over stock peak and 20 at 300 rpm higher made them fly.   

8550 199.3 122.4 12.60 48.5 29.06 1.024 8.9 410

8600 199.8 122.0 12.62 48.5 29.05 1.024 9.4 412

8650 200.1 121.5 12.62 48.5 29.05 1.024 9.7 412

8700 200.1 120.8 12.62 48.5 29.05 1.024 9.9 412

8750 199.7 119.9 12.62 48.5 29.05 1.024 10.0 412

8800 199.1 118.8 12.61 48.5 29.05 1.024 10.0 412

8850 198.2 117.6 12.57 48.5 29.06 1.024 10.1 411

8900 196.7 116.1 12.48 48.5 29.06 1.024 10.1 411

8950 194.8 114.3 12.42 48.5 29.06 1.024 10.2 411

9000 193.7 113.0 12.41 48.5 29.06 1.024 10.3 411

9050 191.5 111.2 12.45 48.5 29.06 1.024 10.4 411

9100 189.8 109.5 12.55 48.5 29.06 1.024 10.4 411 

Edited by Highmark
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Just now, HSR said:

Ben says they don't

Well then my previous thoughts on Ben's turbo knowledge was WAAAAYYYY OOOOFFFF.  

Turbo motors fall off slower and a smaller percentage yes but there still is a sweet spot to clutch them between peak torque and rpm.   Depends what you are clutching for, drag racing, twisty trails, radar runs, top speed.....

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Just now, Highmark said:

Well then my previous thoughts on Ben's turbo knowledge was WAAAAYYYY OOOOFFFF.  

Turbo motors fall off slower and a smaller percentage yes but there still is a sweet spot to clutch them between peak torque and rpm.   Depends what you are clutching for, drag racing, twisty trails, radar runs, top speed.....

:goodpost:

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2 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Well then my previous thoughts on Ben's turbo knowledge was WAAAAYYYY OOOOFFFF.  

Turbo motors fall off slower and a smaller percentage yes but there still is a sweet spot to clutch them between peak torque and rpm.   Depends what you are clutching for, drag racing, twisty trails, radar runs, top speed.....

 

1 minute ago, HSR said:

:goodpost:

x1000

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The other thing about adding boost to turbo's is where the boost is added.   When  I first started boosting my 998 I had two different sets of tunes.   Trail and "race."   The trail tunes didn't add boost till a certain RPM was reached.   I think around 7700.   Done to keep trail mileage like stock.   Personally I didn't like these.   The so called race tunes added it more across the board.   I thought they were way better.  

Fact is 75% of guys would look at you with the deer in the headlights look when you ask them about how their sled is back shifting.  :lol:  

Edited by Highmark
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