Mainecat Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The case for letting senators vote secretly on Trump's fate https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/29/opinions/secret-ballot-trump-senate-impeachment-trial-alexander/index.html The case for letting senators vote secretly on Trump's fate Opinion by Robert Alexander Updated 4:54 AM ET, Mon December 30, 2019 "Robert Alexander is a professor of political science at Ohio Northern University and the author of "Representation and the Electoral College." Follow him on Twitter: @onuprof. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his own. View more opinion at CNN." (CNN)Donald Trump will go down in history as the third US president to be impeached. Yet no president has ever been convicted and removed from office as a result of impeachment, and it appears unlikely that Trump will be, either. While no Republican senator has indicated he or she will vote for Trump's removal, prominent members of the GOP like former Arizona Senator Jeff Flake claim that at least 35 would do so if they were allowed to cast their ballots in secret. Republican strategist Juleanna Glover has made the case for a secret ballot, arguing that it would be surprisingly simple to accomplish. She contends that it would take just a few Republican senators to demand a secret ballot on the condition that they would approve the rest of the rules governing the trial. Senator Brian Schatz, a Democrat from Hawaii, regularly points this out to his Twitter followers -- stating that it only takes "four votes for a fair trial." The idea of a secret ballot, however, is contrary to the norm of transparency that would be expected for such a monumental decision. And it raises the issue of just how accountable elected representatives should be to American voters. At the same time, members of the Senate have already stated the process will be highly partisan. South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham has said, "I will do everything I can to make it die quickly," and added, "I am not trying to pretend to be a fair juror here." Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell went further, noting that he would be "in total coordination" with the White House. This, too, is at odds with norms associated with the rule of law, separation of powers and expectations articulated by the Framers of the Constitution. snip// If a future president fails to obtain a majority in the Electoral College, the House would decide in a contingent election with no requirement that the commander-in-chief be selected through a public process. It seems that if transparency and accountability are not required in that instance, the same can be said of an impeachment vote. However, while holding an anonymous vote may allow senators the freedom to make decisions they believe are in the best interest of the country, the need for trust, transparency, and accountability are critical in our current environment. Recognizing that senators would likely vote differently depending on the openness of their decisions is telling, revealing that the impeachment process of the Framers is deeply flawed. In this way, Hamilton fully understood the need for the Senate to be free of political retribution in order to be an independent and impartial jury. This now seems impossible given how our politics have evolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamgreen02 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Quote (CNN)Donald Trump will go down in history as the third US president to be impeached. Yet no president has ever been convicted and removed from office as a result of impeachment, and it appears unlikely that Trump will be, either. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Another manic MC Monday! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted December 30, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 30, 2019 Why do the Dems always push to do things in secret? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 I see the board asshole has spoken. Maybe someday he can actually start threads without just following members around tossing insults at them like an ignoramus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted December 30, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Mainecat said: I see the board asshole has spoken. Maybe someday he can actually start threads without just following members around tossing insults at them like an ignoramus. You talking to me or Zamboni or teamgreen02? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted December 30, 2019 Gold Member Share Posted December 30, 2019 Didn’t read anything but the title but nope... all workings of our Congress should be out in public.... voting is our only recourse for dealing with corrupted individuals in DC so we need all the facts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 What do the Trumpers fear from a secret vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Shifty Posted December 30, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 30, 2019 Secret ballot???? Are you fucking kidding me? So Less transparency and accountability..........perfect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Wait, this ain't it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted December 30, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 30, 2019 Secret vote. Good lord MC where do you get these articles? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted December 30, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 30, 2019 All in favor of having our government holding secrete votes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted December 30, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mainecat said: What do the Trumpers fear from a secret vote? You honestly think that is how it should work in America? People like you need to fucking die already. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchy Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 but if they were allowed to do it in secret..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis and Butt-Head Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mainecat said: What do the Trumpers fear from a secret vote? No, this one is fucking bullshit. if it starts with Trump's secret voting , then what's next ? voting on Iran war and we cannot see who for it and whos against it like we can on Iraq war. Bad idea all the way around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Reports are there are at least 35 repubs who would vote for impeachment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted December 30, 2019 Gold Member Share Posted December 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mainecat said: What do the Trumpers fear from a secret vote? Fuck that shit! Vote publicly, every one has a right to know exactly how our elected idiots vote. Enough of this secrecy bullshit, too much of our government is already secret. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Mainecat said: Reports are there are at least 35 repubs who would vote for impeachment. Anything to hold your little party of misfits together I guess. Bottom feeding lunk heads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez ryder Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mainecat said: What do the Trumpers fear from a secret vote? what do dems fear from a open vote ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez ryder Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Reports are there are at least 35 repubs who would vote for impeachment. lmfao 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Highmark said: You honestly think that is how it should work in America? People like you need to fucking die already. You agree with McConnell that he will work with the convicted Trump to exonerate him. YOU THINK IT SHOULD WORK LIKE THAT? WHY NO COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez ryder Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 he wont be convicted so dont fret 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mainecat said: You agree with McConnell that he will work with the convicted Trump to exonerate him. YOU THINK IT SHOULD WORK LIKE THAT? WHY NO COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT? Holy shit! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ez ryder said: what do dems fear from a open vote ? They’re really not all that keen in letting us “commoners” know what’s really going on. You know....they like to avoid consequences and stuff like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted December 30, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mainecat said: You agree with McConnell that he will work with the convicted Trump to exonerate him. YOU THINK IT SHOULD WORK LIKE THAT? WHY NO COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT? Yes, I agree with McConnell to make it as partisan as possible JUST LIKE THE DEMS DID WITH THE INQUIRY. What goes around comes around. The dems worked with Clinton as well. I'll bet you think the inquiry was a fair, bipartisan process don't you? You fucking crack me up. Every dollar I donate to get Trump reelected makes me smile thinking the absolute anguish it will cause you when he wins again. Edited December 30, 2019 by Highmark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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