Mainecat Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) If This Isn’t Impeachable, Nothing Is The president reportedly sought the help of a foreign government against Joe Biden. 8:10 AM ET Tom Nichols Tom Nichols is the author of The Death of Expertise REUTERS / TOM BRENNER The president of the United States reportedly sought the help of a foreign government against an American citizen who might challenge him for his office. This is the single most important revelation in a scoop by The Wall Street Journal, and if it is true, then President Donald Trump should be impeached and removed from office immediately. Until now, there was room for reasonable disagreement over impeachment as both a matter of politics and a matter of tactics. The Mueller report revealed despicably unpatriotic behavior by Trump and his minions, but it did not trigger a political judgment with a majority of Americans that it warranted impeachment. The Democrats, for their part, remained unwilling to risk their new majority in Congress on a move destined to fail in a Republican-controlled Senate. Now, however, we face an entirely new situation. In a call to the new president of Ukraine, Trump reportedly attempted to pressure the leader of a sovereign state into conducting an investigation—a witch hunt, one might call it—of a U.S. citizen, former Vice President Joe Biden, and his son Hunter Biden. As the Ukrainian Interior Ministry official Anton Gerashchenko toldthe Daily Beast when asked about the president’s apparent requests, “Clearly, Trump is now looking for kompromat to discredit his opponent Biden, to take revenge for his friend Paul Manafort, who is serving seven years in prison.” Clearly. If this in itself is not impeachable, then the concept has no meaning. Trump’s grubby commandeering of the presidency’s fearsome and nearly uncheckable powers in foreign policy for his own ends is a gross abuse of power and an affront both to our constitutional order and to the integrity of our elections. The story may even be worse than we know. If Trump tried to use military aid to Ukraine as leverage, as reporters are now investigating, then he held Ukrainian and American security hostage to his political vendettas. It means nothing to say that no such deal was reached; the important point is that Trump abused his position in the Oval Office. In this matter, we need not rely on a newspaper account, nor even on the complaint, so far unseen, of a whistle-blower. Instead, we have a sweaty, panicked admission on national television by Trump’s bizarre homunculus, Rudy Giuliani, that he did in fact seek such an investigation on Trump’s behalf. Giuliani later again confirmed Trump’s role, tweeting that a “President telling a Pres-elect of a well known corrupt country he better investigate corruption that affects US is doing his job.” Let us try, as we always find ourselves doing in the age of Trump, to think about how Americans might react if this happened in any other administration. Imagine, for example, if Bill Clinton had called his friend, Russian President Boris Yeltsin, in 1996, and asked him to investigate Bob Dole. Or if George W. Bush had called, say, President Vicente Fox of Mexico in 2004 and asked him—indeed, asked him eight times, according to The Wall Street Journal—to open a case against John Kerry. Clinton, of course, was eventually impeached for far less than that. Is there any doubt that either man would have been put on trial in the Senate, and likely chased from office? The Republicans, predictably, have decided to choose their party over their country, and the damage control and lying have begun. Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri, for one, has already floated the reliable “deep-state attack” nonsense that will play well on Fox and other conservative outlets. And while Giuliani did Trump no favors with his incoherent ranting on CNN, he did manage to hammer away at the idea that Biden, and not Trump, tried to shake down the Ukrainians while he was vice president. The problem for Giuliani, the Republicans, and the president himself, however, is that Biden and his actions are now irrelevant to the offenses committed by Trump. The accusations against Joe Biden are false, as we know from multiple fact checks and from the Ukrainians themselves (which is why I won’t deign to repeat them here). But even to argue over this fable about Biden is to miss the point, because it changes nothing about Trump’s attempts to enmesh Biden in a foreign investigation for Trump’s own purposes. There is no spin, no deflection, no alternative theory of the case that can get around the central fact that President Trump reportedly attempted to use his office for his own gain, and that he put the foreign policy and the national security of the United States at risk while doing so. He ignored his duty as the commander in chief by intentionally trying to place an American citizen in jeopardy with a foreign government. He abandoned his obligations to the Constitution by elevating his own interests over the national interest. By comparison, Watergate was a complicated judgment call. In a better time and in a better country, Republicans would now join with Democrats and press for Trump’s impeachment. This won’t happen, of course; even many of Biden’s competitors for the presidency seem to be keeping their distance from this mess, perhaps in the hope that Biden and Trump will engage in a kind of mutually assured political destruction. (Elizabeth Warren, for one, renewed her call for impeachment—but without mentioning Biden.) This is to their shame. The Democratic candidates should now unite around a call for an impeachment investigation, not for Biden’s sake, but to protect the sanctity of our elections from a predatory president who has made it clear he will stop at nothing to stay in the White House. I am speaking only for myself as an American citizen. I believe in our Constitution, and therefore I must accept that Donald Trump is the president and the commander in chief until the Congress or the people of the United States say otherwise. But if this kind of dangerous, unhinged hijacking of the powers of the presidency is not enough for either the citizens or their elected leaders to demand Trump’s removal, then we no longer have an accountable executive branch, and we might as well just admit that we have chosen to elect a monarch and be done with the illusion of constitutional order in the United States. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/trumps-ukraine-call-clear-impeachable-offense/598570/ Edited September 21, 2019 by Mainecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted September 21, 2019 Gold Member Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) A president talking to foreign leaders is not an impeachable thing... Edited September 21, 2019 by BOHICA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Stephen Hawking Posted September 21, 2019 Gold Member Share Posted September 21, 2019 It'd be nice to know what it's actually about first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01mxz800 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 It was ok when the Dems did it though 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted September 21, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 21, 2019 I’ve seen this movie before! At least part one anyways and that was Russia. Looks like the sequel is with Ukraine. Sequels are never as good as the original 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted September 21, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Stephen Hawking said: It'd be nice to know what it's actually about first. Reportedly blah blah from an anonymous source so we must IMPEACH!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted September 21, 2019 Gold Member Share Posted September 21, 2019 Foreign governments are certainly keeping tabs on all our elected dipshits and so I believe that this sort of thing goes on all the time and we are now just beginning to learn of it. I'd love to see some long standing, entrenched politicians go down for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 Patriots don’t do this but dictators do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01mxz800 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Patriots don’t do this but dictators do. you are one stupid fuck, can't wait to hear your crying during his second term 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 minute ago, 01mxz800 said: you are one stupid fuck, can't wait to hear your crying during his second term There will be no second term for the con man. The Dems will take the senate as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Patriots don’t do this but dictators do. How would you know? You aren’t a patriot...or an American as far as I am concerned. Hurry and die. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted September 21, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 21, 2019 There was never supposed to be a first term you arrogant imbecile 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01mxz800 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, Mainecat said: There will be no second term for the con man. The Dems will take the senate as well. what are the Vegas odds you fucking moron dems are toast, TRUMP wins second term, dems lose house and seats in senate you heard it here 1st 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 Bribery and extortion is now OK with republicans? WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 Just now, 01mxz800 said: what are the Vegas odds you fucking moron dems are toast, TRUMP wins second term, dems lose house and seats in senate you heard it here 1st Its over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01mxz800 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Just now, Mainecat said: Its over. for the dems yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 minute ago, 01mxz800 said: for the dems yes Bribery and extortion is ok for the president? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I hope fake cat never stops falling for this stuff lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted September 21, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Its over. Lost track of just how many times you’ve said this! Let that sink in then do some soul searching and self reflection 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Aren’t joe and his boy involved in dirty shit in Ukraine? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Rigid1 Posted September 21, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 21, 2019 It's funny how the Dems don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.. MC posts lame thread after lame thread how Trump is getting rich off the government with zero proof..Bidens son gets rich off his dad's dealings with the Ukraine while he was VP...and crickets.. MC you are a pile of fucking shit with absolutely zero class or honor.. . 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momorider Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rigid1 said: It's funny how the Dems don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.. MC posts lame thread after lame thread how Trump is getting rich off the government with zero proof..Bidens son gets rich off his dad's dealings with the Ukraine while he was VP...and crickets.. MC you are a pile of fucking shit with absolutely zero class or honor.. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriftBusta Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Mainecat said: Patriots don’t do this but dictators do. Or you could ask how was it that Bidens son became a multi millionaire from being a director in a foreign company in an industry he had zero background in. No corruption there though....amirite? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 So according to the Trumpers here extortion and bribery by a sitting president is OK? Come on yes or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKIQPilot Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mainecat said: So according to the Trumpers here extortion and bribery by a sitting president is OK? Come on yes or no? Got a link to that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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