Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 27 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 27 Old but still funny. https://www.wdbo.com/news/ev-battery-factory-will-require-so-much-energy-it-needs-coal-plant-power-it/A4J5K7UUB5HLZGZ6RHTXLU4VDU/ The Biden administration’s efforts to transition America away from fossil fuels has led to the construction of a $4 billion Panasonic electric vehicle battery factory in De Soto, Kansas. The factory will require between 200 and 250 megawatts of electricity to operate, and as a result, the utility will continue to burn coal at a power plant near Lawrence, Kansas, and delay plans to transition units at the plant to natural gas. This has caused environmental concerns, as EVs require a lot of energy to produce and the mining and factory processing produces a lot of carbon dioxide emissions. There is a growing recognition of the need for coal to supply baseload power, and Rep. Cyrus Western has noted that renewables are a great source of auxiliary supplemental power, but without a solid base load to ensure a reliable energy supply, they don’t work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I’m sure when the whale oil guys were pissed when the coal companies opened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 27 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 27 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Mainecat said: I’m sure when the whale oil guys were pissed when the coal companies opened. Coal companies absolutely love EV and EV production. It can't be done on any significant scale without them. Edited February 27 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Between 2010 and May 2019, 290 coal power plants, representing 40% of the U.S. coal generating capacity, closed. It’s natural gas….why it’s cleaner. So clean energy is being used to creat cleaner energy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coal-fired_power_stations_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Between 2010 and May 2019,U.S. coal generating capacity%2C closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 27 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 27 100 commercial wind turbines needed to run the factory....when they are at full capacity. This isn't even dealing with when and where these could be built to supply the energy. Cost per turbine....$4-6 million. Cost to run one factory....$500 million https://www.inspirecleanenergy.com/blog/clean-energy-101/how-much-energy-does-wind-turbine-produce Most onshore wind turbines today are rated at 2.5-3 MW (megawatts), with blades of about 50m in length, about half the length of a football field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 976 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted February 28 Gold Member Share Posted February 28 US would be fucked without renewables since almost a 1/4 of the electricity the United States uses comes from renewables. Renewables provided over 22.7% of US electrical generation in 2023, according to newly released end-of-year US Energy Information Administration (EIA) data. EIA’s latest “Electric Power Monthly” (with data through December 31, 2023) reports that the combination of utility-scale and small-scale (e.g., rooftop) solar increased by 16.1% last year. Small-scale solar alone grew by 20.1% – faster than any other energy source. In December alone, small-scale solar increased by 21.4% while total solar grew by 30.7%. As a result, by the end of 2023, solar was 5.6% of total US electrical generation. Small-scale solar accounted for 30.9% of all solar generation and provided more than 1.7% of US electricity supply last year. Solar generation has now nearly matched hydropower (also 5.6% of the total) and should surpass it within the next few months to become the second largest renewable energy source, behind only wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 8 minutes ago, BOHICA said: US would be fucked without renewables since almost a 1/4 of the electricity the United States uses comes from renewables. Renewables provided over 22.7% of US electrical generation in 2023, according to newly released end-of-year US Energy Information Administration (EIA) data. EIA’s latest “Electric Power Monthly” (with data through December 31, 2023) reports that the combination of utility-scale and small-scale (e.g., rooftop) solar increased by 16.1% last year. Small-scale solar alone grew by 20.1% – faster than any other energy source. In December alone, small-scale solar increased by 21.4% while total solar grew by 30.7%. As a result, by the end of 2023, solar was 5.6% of total US electrical generation. Small-scale solar accounted for 30.9% of all solar generation and provided more than 1.7% of US electricity supply last year. Solar generation has now nearly matched hydropower (also 5.6% of the total) and should surpass it within the next few months to become the second largest renewable energy source, behind only wind. 25% of the Texas electrical grid is wind. That’s an outstanding percentage. Gov Abbot is committed to renewables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted February 28 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 28 Force the switch to or increase of renewables then say how the country would be fucked without them. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted February 28 Gold Member Share Posted February 28 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said: 25% of the Texas electrical grid is wind. That’s an outstanding percentage. Gov Abbot is committed to renewables. South Dakota get over 50% of its electricity use from wind and it became an exporter of energy vs an importer due to wind. The state without wind would be sending money out of state to buy energy but with Republicans such as Kristi Noem’s and farmers fondness of renewables they bring a bunch of money into the state selling powah. https://energynews.us/2022/11/03/wind-is-now-south-dakotas-no-1-producer-of-electricity-but-not-every-day/ Edited February 28 by BOHICA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Renewables is such a stupid word for anti science idiots lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 It has been proven that solar panels actually can cause dry spots and actually raise the temp and effect the weather where they are placed. Just fabulous for the environment they are around. NOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 46 minutes ago, racer254 said: It has been proven that solar panels actually can cause dry spots and actually raise the temp and effect the weather where they are placed. Just fabulous for the environment they are around. NOT. So warming does exist now? Edited February 28 by Deephaven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvanden Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 10 minutes ago, Deephaven said: So warming does exist now? Black parking lots, no. Panels, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 7 hours ago, akvanden said: Black parking lots, no. Panels, yes. Parking lots were never pushed under the guise of global warming. But don't let that ruin it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvanden Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 36 minutes ago, racer254 said: Parking lots were never pushed under the guise of global warming. But don't let that ruin it for you. So global warming is real. Or it *could* be real but only because of solar panels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Steve753 Posted February 28 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, akvanden said: So global warming is real. Or it *could* be real but only because of solar panels. I wanna know more about these dry spots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Hybrids, gas vehicles fuel legacy automakers' shares past EV rivals Nathan Gomes Tue, February 27, 2024 at 10:36 AM CST·2 min read FILE PHOTO: A banner for the all-new Ford F-150 Lightning electric pickup truck is seen outside the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center By Nathan Gomes (Reuters) - Shares of legacy automakers have outpaced their electric counterparts over the last few weeks, as investors respond to company decisions to prioritize higher-margin, gas-powered models instead of pure battery vehicles. Automakers, including Ford Motor , General Motors, Mercedes, have scaled back on their ambitious EV plans. Electric vehicle demand has slowed of late, suggesting the transition away from traditional internal combustion engine vehicles will take longer than expected. Shares of EV pioneer Tesla surpassed legacy automakers for the last few years, making it the world's most valuable car company by market capitalization. But the Elon Musk-led company's shares are down nearly 20% this year after it warned of slower adoption of EVs. In contrast, GM, Stellantis have climbed about 10% this year. Toyota is up 38% as the Japanese automaker has favored hybrid vehicles over EVs in the last few years. "Legacy automakers are responding to consumer behavior and market conditions which very clearly show a lack of interest in most battery EV models," CFRA analyst Garrett Nelson said. Part of the challenge for EV makers is that manufacturing and development costs, spurred by pandemic-era supply chain disruptions, have gone up even as their sales have suffered. Competition in the sector, especially from cheaper Chinese EV brands, has also heated up. In February, Ford and GM executives said that they would consider partnerships to cut EV technology costs to counter Chinese rivals in the U.S. and European markets. Additionally, higher ownership costs of new vehicles and some models losing the federal tax credits, coupled with increased borrowing rates, have deterred buyers from considering new EVs and hanging on to their ageing vehicles. EV-only manufacturers, apart from Tesla, have also seen their stock fall. Lucid has tumbled nearly 25% this year, while Rivian's shares have nearly halved. Tesla's stock has a price-to-equity ratio of nearly 61 versus GM's 4.45. "EV fueling is more expensive, though of course it's not uncommon for new technologies to be more expensive than their traditional counterparts," said Anderson Economic Group author Patrick Anderson. Hertz, the largest U.S. fleet operator of EVs, in January said it was dumping 20,000 EVs, including Teslas for gas-powered cars, citing high repair costs and weak demand for the vehicles it offers on rent. "We think it's probably going to be at least another couple of years before a legacy automaker puts out a profitable EV," Nelson said. The bumpy economic scenario and a Tesla-initiated price war also led legacy automakers to lower prices even more, cutting into already battered margins from those vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 38 minutes ago, Steve753 said: I wanna know more about these dry spots! Google is your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 28 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 28 (edited) So typical of this debate. Nobody is saying that use of renewables is bad but forcing the market into rapid change cannot be done so called "clean" and cannot be done nearly as cost effectively as letting the market do it at a more reasonable pace. The idea of a mix of energy sources should be done on the process of extending resources and making them more economical not we are all going to die in 10 years if we don't do this. Edited February 28 by Highmark 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Steve753 Posted February 28 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 28 23 minutes ago, racer254 said: Google is your friend. I don't use google. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 8 minutes ago, Steve753 said: I don't use google. Of course you don't. Find an internet search engine and look up heat island effect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Steve753 Posted February 28 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, racer254 said: Of course you don't. Find an internet search engine and look up heat island effect. Thanks for the laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 13 hours ago, Deephaven said: So warming does exist now? For 20,000 years way to express the obvious and act like it’s profound 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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