joe_zrt Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Delayed response from the EV superheros on here, but now it's getting entertaining 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 6 minutes ago, joe_zrt said: Delayed response from the EV superheros on here, but now it's getting entertaining It should not be. Its math. No more, no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_zrt Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Maybe it's Voodoo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepybrew Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, akvanden said: More than just capacity will improve, but yes, tech needs to improve for it to be viable. wait till the charging strip hits the roads. but it's way more than a charger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 5 hours ago, f7ben said: While those numbers sound big it really doesn’t matter. If the electricity was produced with something like nuclear the entire process would provide the resulted need energy output far more efficiently than any ice powered vehicle could. Jones bbq and foot massage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member EvilBird Posted January 6 Gold Member Share Posted January 6 mOaR sOlAr pAnELz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plissken Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 hours ago, Voodoo said: That is like pissing in the ocean 350 kw would 40 wind turbines running at %100 capacity Thats one car, one charger. When I just looked, it seems most wind turbines are 3 MW or 3000 KW. So a single turbine could charge 8.5 Tesla model S’s at a charge rate of 350kw, or more depending on how full the battery capacities are since as BOHICA pointed out that the charge rate necessarily reduces as the batteries near full charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plissken Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 11 hours ago, Highmark said: 6 350kw superchargers running at full capacity is the same load on the grid as 1080 homes. I disagree. 6 x 350KW = 2,100 KW. 2,100 KW / 1080 homes equals 1.94 KW per home. 1.94 KW seems too low of an estimation. I can barely run my house off a 7.5KW portable generator. Certainly won’t start my 4 ton AC compressor. Aren’t most Generac installs 12 KW to 20 KW? If we assume 12 KW per household, then the number of households drops from 1080 to 175. Edited January 6 by Plissken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airflite1 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, Plissken said: I disagree. 6 x 350KW = 2,100 KW. 2,100 KW / 1080 homes equals 1.94 KW per home. 1.94 KW seems too low of an estimation. I can barely run my house off a 7.5KW portable generator. Certainly won’t start my 4 ton AC compressor. Aren’t most Generac installs 12 KW to 20 KW? If we assume 12 KW per household, then the number of households drops from 1080 to 175. !2 KW would run everything in your house at once, there is very little chance of everything running full blast all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted January 6 Gold Member Share Posted January 6 (edited) 21 minutes ago, airflite1 said: !2 KW would run everything in your house at once, there is very little chance of everything running full blast all the time. I’ve seen a high of about 26 on my demand meter. But Solar was shaving around 8kw or so off of the overall usage. 26kw was just what the utility company was contributing Edited January 6 by BOHICA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plissken Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 38 minutes ago, airflite1 said: !2 KW would run everything in your house at once, there is very little chance of everything running full blast all the time. EV’s don’t charge at full blast 24/7 either though. It also bugs me that the tik tok guy and some here use the terms power and energy interchangeably when they are not. Energy equals power multiplied by time, not KW per hour like he says in the clip. If we compare houses vs EV’s based on energy consumption things would look a little different. Average household is 10,500 kWh per year. A Tesla Model 3 driven 12,000 miles per year would be 2,900 kWh. So a house draws as much energy as 3.6 Tesla Model 3’s per year. Edited January 6 by Plissken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2900kw is $551 here. Everyone I know would be ecstatic if that is all the energy they used in a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted January 6 Gold Member Share Posted January 6 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Deephaven said: 2900kw is $551 here. Everyone I know would be ecstatic if that is all the energy they used in a year. At 30 mpg, which is pretty far fetched mileage in combined, in a 350+hp AWD gas car, at $3.00 a gallon it over double the cost in your area in just fuel for a gas car. Also at 2900kw’s costing $551 is 19 cents a kwh. In just over 32 months my $17,500 solar array on my roof has made $9654.85 in electricity in your values. Pushing 5 year payback if I had your rates! Edited January 6 by BOHICA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted January 6 Gold Member Share Posted January 6 With what I make off my roof in a year it is enough to power 6 EV’s using close to 3000 kwh’s a year. Plus lessens the strain on the grid during peak useage times when AC’s are kickin. Distributed small scale energy sources is where it is at for a reliable grid. Not large far away generation plants that are only needed when the peak demand hits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airflite1 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 8 hours ago, BOHICA said: I’ve seen a high of about 26 on my demand meter. But Solar was shaving around 8kw or so off of the overall usage. 26kw was just what the utility company was contributing Does that include charging your 2 EV's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airflite1 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 9 hours ago, Plissken said: EV’s don’t charge at full blast 24/7 either though. It also bugs me that the tik tok guy and some here use the terms power and energy interchangeably when they are not. Energy equals power multiplied by time, not KW per hour like he says in the clip. If we compare houses vs EV’s based on energy consumption things would look a little different. Average household is 10,500 kWh per year. A Tesla Model 3 driven 12,000 miles per year would be 2,900 kWh. So a house draws as much energy as 3.6 Tesla Model 3’s per year. I really wanted an EV to leave at our second home, for me there were too many little issues for a car that would see sporadic use. I thought plugging it into an AC charger overnight would charge the car but was told to expect only a 25-30 mile gain without using a fast charger, also they said if I had a GIC outlet it would draw too much power and pop the circuit, that's a pretty heavy draw for 30 miles. Edited January 6 by airflite1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Our reliance on 110v and imperial units is really sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted January 6 Gold Member Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, airflite1 said: Does that include charging your 2 EV's? Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airflite1 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 minutes ago, BOHICA said: Yep. What do you think it would be without the EV's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted January 6 Gold Member Share Posted January 6 3 minutes ago, airflite1 said: What do you think it would be without the EV's? 34 - 11 x 2 would give ya the kw. Without EV charging. This was everything on in the house…. Double ovens, every light I could find, Central air, microwave, dryer. Have 2 lugs left in the panel and wanted to see if I had enough room for a heat pump in the garage. Got 2 openings left in my panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 13 hours ago, Plissken said: I disagree. 6 x 350KW = 2,100 KW. 2,100 KW / 1080 homes equals 1.94 KW per home. 1.94 KW seems too low of an estimation. I can barely run my house off a 7.5KW portable generator. Certainly won’t start my 4 ton AC compressor. Aren’t most Generac installs 12 KW to 20 KW? If we assume 12 KW per household, then the number of households drops from 1080 to 175. I used to build very large electric heating units and load banks for large generator testing. Biggest load bank was 2.5 MW. I do this type of math in my sleep. 24hrs x 30 days = 720 hrs 720 hrs x 2 kwh = 1420 kwhs. Average Canadian household uses 1350 kwh in 30 days, or 45 kwh per day, or roughly that 1.9kwh. It's the measurements that get confusing. To start your compressor requires amps, which equates into lots of watts but only for a short period of time, then it mellows out..ish. I'll use mine as an example. 23 amps at 240 v is 5500w. But it only runs for 2 min. 5500/30 = .184 kwh Make sense now? Edited January 6 by Voodoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 6 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 6 (edited) 11 hours ago, Plissken said: EV’s don’t charge at full blast 24/7 either though. It also bugs me that the tik tok guy and some here use the terms power and energy interchangeably when they are not. Energy equals power multiplied by time, not KW per hour like he says in the clip. If we compare houses vs EV’s based on energy consumption things would look a little different. Average household is 10,500 kWh per year. A Tesla Model 3 driven 12,000 miles per year would be 2,900 kWh. So a house draws as much energy as 3.6 Tesla Model 3’s per year. Missing the point...it's not just usage but load on the system at a given time. His home usage is accurate as is his load. https://www.anker.com/blogs/home-power-backup/electricity-usage-how-much-energy-does-an-average-house-use Edited January 6 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plissken Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 20 minutes ago, Voodoo said: I used to build very large electric heating units and load banks for large generator testing. Biggest load bank was 2.5 MW. I do this type of math in my sleep. 24hrs x 30 days = 720 hrs Correct 720 hrs x 2 kwh = 1420 kwhs. Numerically this is correct but the units don’t make sense. You’d end up with hours squared since you’re multiplying h x h. Average Canadian household uses 1350 kwh in 30 days, or 45 kwh per day, or roughly that 1.9kwh. Change that last figures units to KWh/h or more simply just KW and I can agree with this. But then we are also using long term average power consumption and contrasting that to the peak draw an EV would present to the grid as if that were an n anyway meaningful. It's the measurements that get confusing. To start your compressor requires amps, which equates into lots of watts but only for a short period of time, then it mellows out..ish. I'll use mine as an example. 23 amps at 240 v is 5500w. But it only runs for 2 min. 5500/30 = .184 kwh Make sense now? Yes there is obviously inrush current involved in starting an AC compressor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 minutes ago, Highmark said: Missing the point...it's not just usage but load on the system at a given time. His home usage is accurate as is his load. https://www.anker.com/blogs/home-power-backup/electricity-usage-how-much-energy-does-an-average-house-use It's all about load. Systems are not designed so that every household is capable of using %100, all at once. Not even close. Being kind, 1 tesla on a rapid charger would use the equivalent of my home drawing %100 of it's capacity, 5 times over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Plissken said: Yes there is obviously inrush current involved in starting an AC compressor. Sure, but my figures were running load, that 23 amps. Probably a 3-5 x inrush. Meaningless in an actual usage figure. Watt. Unit of energy Killowatt or KW.. 1000 watts, or think of it as 8.33 amps at 120 volts irrelevant to time. Kwh Killowatt hour the amount of energy used, in the above 120 volt circuit, drawing 8.33 amps for 1 hour Make sense now? The Tesla charges are throwing hundreds of amps at 400 ish volts. Impressive, but that's why the numbers are so big. Edited January 6 by Voodoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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