All,

As in the previous FS I am willing to lend my expertise like any others on this forum.  I will attempt to answer any and all relevant question you have regarding sleds, ATVs and general enforcement.  Be aware..this is not official OPP communication nor is it legal advice.  Its simply my opinion based on experience as a police officer.  For those unaware I've spent the past 10yrs working in the Snowmobile ATV Vessel Enforcement team (SAVE) and have built up a lot of experience, met many of the original members and I think we all had benefitted from the questions shared on here.  Hopefully the mods will pin this thread.  All I ask is that this thread not turn into a police bashing thread...  If that happens I will not be able to continue.  Feel free to bash away, just not in this thread please. 

 

Sean

1 hour ago, revrnd said:

There was a traffic accident a week or so ago on Highway 7 on the outskirts of Peterborough @ a set of traffic lights. One of the drivers was charged w/ 'Failure to avoid an accident' (or something  like that). Can you clear that 

The charge would read something like this: 

148(5)

Fail to turn out to left to avoid collision

Or a variation on that.  Essentially you failed to perform an action that would've prevented the collision.  

Saw this on Faceplant, 

Between Stirling & Marmora... 

1 hour ago, revrnd said:

Saw this on Faceplant, 

Between Stirling & Marmora... 

That's one down and lots more to go

10 hours ago, revrnd said:

Saw this on Faceplant, 

Between Stirling & Marmora... 

 

9 hours ago, smokin george said:

That's one down and lots more to go

Yeah...   very familiar with that stop. 😉

did you fine them more because it was Busch light they were drinking?

We have a big issue around here with idiots trespassing. The trails are closed to atv/sxs and dirt bikes and if it keeps up we'll lose the use of the sxs pilot project that took place last season

23 minutes ago, Usedtoskidoo said:

did you fine them more because it was Busch light they were drinking?

Does that even count as beer?

Lmfao!!!

Hi Sean...was wondering if you could advise on the following. I have found out a buddy was stopped on a portage on a lake that has an OFSC trail on it. They were asked for ownership and insurance which they did not have on them at the time. These people live on the lake but were helping a neighbor doing construction on the lake so had their work clothes and no slips. The sleds did have insurance and ownerships which they advised the officer they would go and get and bring back to the the officer. (One person would stay on site with the officer and the other would go and return with the slips). Their cottage on the lake was 10 minutes from where they were stopped. They were issued 4 tickets in total for 2 sleds so about $450 in fines. Are you required to carry these slips at all times even if you are on a lake? On another note I am was under the impression that there are no speed limits for sleds on lakes. Is this true? Can you be issued a speeding ticket (above 50km) on a lake if there is an OFSC trail on the lake? Also what about a lake that does not have an OFSC trail on it. Can you still be issued a ticket for speeding?  thanks for your time    

13 minutes ago, probill said:

Hi Sean...was wondering if you could advise on the following. I have found out a buddy was stopped on a portage on a lake that has an OFSC trail on it. They were asked for ownership and insurance which they did not have on them at the time. These people live on the lake but were helping a neighbor doing construction on the lake so had their work clothes and no slips. The sleds did have insurance and ownerships which they advised the officer they would go and get and bring back to the the officer. (One person would stay on site with the officer and the other would go and return with the slips). Their cottage on the lake was 10 minutes from where they were stopped. They were issued 4 tickets in total for 2 sleds so about $450 in fines. Are you required to carry these slips at all times even if you are on a lake? On another note I am was under the impression that there are no speed limits for sleds on lakes. Is this true? Can you be issued a speeding ticket (above 50km) on a lake if there is an OFSC trail on the lake? Also what about a lake that does not have an OFSC trail on it. Can you still be issued a ticket for speeding?  thanks for your time    

Once off your own property you're required to carry proof of registration and insurance and present it upon demand at all times.  The officer can use his/her discretion and allow time to produce but it's completely up to the officer. The Motorized Snow Vehicle Act (MSVA) covers all areas outside private property.  As for speeding, the MSVA references prescribed trails and municipal areas.  Technically a staked and opened trail along a lake would fall into that.  I've never issued a speeding ticket on a lake nor has anyone in my unit to the best of my knowledge.  And really...just ride beside the stake trail and you're no longer on OFSC trails.  Too bad about your buddies. I wasn't there and can't comment specifically on their situation...but hope my answer helps. 

Thanks for the response. I will relay the info. I dont believe they were planning to fight the tickets. They were confused about the private property thing. As you explained, on your own property you would not need the documents but once you are on someone elses property then you need the documentation. On the other item, I assume its up to the officer's discretion but I wonder "how far off " the stake line you would have to be running to be deemed "off" the trail??   

You're welcome.  As for being off trail on the lake, once your outside the staked path you're "off trail". It could be 1 inch or 1 mile. Obviously the further away the better it is to distinguish between the two.  

Ok well I have just a couple more questions on producing paperwork if stopped. Never really thought of this until I was made aware of our friends situation. I am sure this have probably been covered before somewhere on these 28 pages so I apologize if its redundant. We have 2 sleds and keep the paperwork for the sleds in our jacket pockets all the time. We have on occasion had times when my wife will go out with a friend and borrow my sled and sometimes I will go out with a buddy who will use my wife's sled. In these situations we would be missing the paperwork for one for the sleds should we be stopped. Both our sleds are covered by the same insurance policy and both sleds are shown on the insurance slips. Does each sled need to have a separate insurance slip or could we produce a single slip that indicates both sleds are covered on the same policy? As for the ownership, is a photocopy acceptable? If it is I guess we will have to give each other a copy of our sled's registration so one of us always have a copy of the other's sled with us at all times.     

Good/fair questions.   If there is an insurance slip that shows BOTH sleds being covered and can be produced when the sleds are stopped, that is acceptable. As for the registration you need to have one for each sled and produce it upon request.  A photocopy of the registration is acceptable.  Hope that helps....

 

Sean

Great. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your help in understanding the requirements. 

On 4/19/2020 at 11:14 AM, odot1 said:

Once off your own property you're required to carry proof of registration and insurance and present it upon demand at all times.  The officer can use his/her discretion and allow time to produce but it's completely up to the officer. The Motorized Snow Vehicle Act (MSVA) covers all areas outside private property.  As for speeding, the MSVA references prescribed trails and municipal areas.  Technically a staked and opened trail along a lake would fall into that.  I've never issued a speeding ticket on a lake nor has anyone in my unit to the best of my knowledge.  And really...just ride beside the stake trail and you're no longer on OFSC trails.  Too bad about your buddies. I wasn't there and can't comment specifically on their situation...but hope my answer helps. 

The ofsc does not have any trails on lakes. Staked or otherwise.

1 minute ago, ManOnManOral said:

The ofsc does not have any trails on lakes. Staked or otherwise.

Courts in this jurisdiction have considered them OFSC once staked by a member club. Can't speak for other jurisdictions 

1 minute ago, odot1 said:

Courts in this jurisdiction have considered them OFSC once staked by a member club. Can't speak for other jurisdictions 

Well the courts are wrong. The ofsc has no prescribed trails on lakes. They install signage stating trail ends at every ice crossing. They have no insurance covering bodies of water.  No trail pass required to run a stake line. You need to do some homework.

I've dome mine  thanks.  Not here to argue.  Simply stating what occurs around here. The courts have deemed whomever staked the lake is considered responsible for same. 

36 minutes ago, odot1 said:

I've dome mine  thanks.  Not here to argue.  Simply stating what occurs around here. The courts have deemed whomever staked the lake is considered responsible for same. 

Interesting. I've always wondered about this. The OFSC claims no responsibility for the stake lines yet OFSC members put the stake lines in and they are shown on the OFSC maps.

Just now, Blackstar said:

Interesting. I've always wondered about this. The OFSC claims no responsibility for the stake lines yet OFSC members put the stake lines in and they are shown on the OFSC maps.

Hence the court decisions.  

My 17 year old son wants to purchase a dirt bike to ride on crown land trails. What are the requirements to do so? Licensing, minimum insurance ect. What are the general rules. I have never owned one so I'm clueless....

 

34 minutes ago, woodyf said:

My 17 year old son wants to purchase a dirt bike to ride on crown land trails. What are the requirements to do so? Licensing, minimum insurance ect. What are the general rules. I have never owned one so I'm clueless....

 

Good for him!!   The bike needs to be insured and registered/plated. It can only be ridden on crown land or trails that allow bikes. It can NOT be ridden along roads, even in the ditches.  The licence plate is to.be mounted on the front on the bike although many guys allow it on the rear.  He does not need a licence to ride private property, crown land or trails.  Technically it must be walked across the road.  

Sean

1 hour ago, odot1 said:

Good for him!!   The bike needs to be insured and registered/plated. It can only be ridden on crown land or trails that allow bikes. It can NOT be ridden along roads, even in the ditches.  The licence plate is to.be mounted on the front on the bike although many guys allow it on the rear.  He does not need a licence to ride private property, crown land or trails.  Technically it must be walked across the road.  

Sean

You just made my son's day! Thanks, you're the best!

5 minutes ago, woodyf said:

You just made my son's day! Thanks, you're the best!

Awesome! Glad I could help!