Learn us about Communism

[Anler]

18 hours ago, motonoggin said:

I disagree, the problem is capitalism. 

If natural resources, for example, were seen as the property of all humanity rather than some capitalist, society would be significantly different and the coup in Iran, amongst others, would not have occurred. 

I also find it frustrating that people believe the resources that lie beneath the ground of a nation should belong to corporations and not the nation as a whole but I think we both agree that the oil (and commodities) market is controlled by the same individuals and would appear that these are capitalists but I think its more imperialism because we are the ones doing the fighting for these people to own other countries resources. And its the same people who have always been stealing other people land and resources. 

In a free market if the countries owned the resources and private businesses competed for the extraction, refining and distribution we would have a more fair market with less imperialist acts of theft. Right now the commodities market is controlled by a cartel who sets the prices. there is no competitive market

[Anler]

15 hours ago, akvanden said:

The idea of free markets where people can buy and sell as they choose has been around since the dawn of civilization. The idea of capitalism, as an economic system based on the premise of free markets, has been around for centuries. 

We dont really have a free market. Free market doesnt have: taxes, regulations, tariffs, subsidies, etc... 

Kinda like how real communism has never been tried, real capitalism has never been fully implemented

[akvanden]

7 minutes ago, Anler said:

We dont really have a free market. Free market doesnt have: taxes, regulations, tariffs, subsidies, etc... 

Kinda like how real communism has never been tried, real capitalism has never been fully implemented

Totally understand, but the idea that an individual has the opportunity to participate when and where they please in said market is in my mind what makes capitalism (or quasi capitalism) heads and tails better than communism. 

[Anler]

6 minutes ago, akvanden said:

Totally understand, but the idea that an individual has the opportunity to participate when and where they please in said market is in my mind what makes capitalism (or quasi capitalism) heads and tails better than communism. 

100%. That is why i am a capitalist and not a communist. True capitalism is about freedom. 

[Rod]

22 minutes ago, Anler said:

We dont really have a free market. Free market doesnt have: taxes, regulations, tariffs, subsidies, etc... 

Kinda like how real communism has never been tried, real capitalism has never been fully implemented

“Real communism” will never actually happen. It’s supposed to be stateless, but requires totalitarianism. So it’s an oxymoron within itself 

[Anler]

Just now, ACE said:

“Real communism” will never actually happen. It’s supposed to be stateless, but requires totalitarianism. So it’s an oxymoron within itself 

Yeah I agree. Too many things dont add up

[motonoggin]

2 hours ago, akvanden said:

Totally understand, but the idea that an individual has the opportunity to participate when and where they please in said market is in my mind what makes capitalism (or quasi capitalism) heads and tails better than communism. 

Commerce is not capitalism.

That's one of the biggest lies capitalist propaganda perpetuates.

[motonoggin]

wHeRe DiD iT wErK b4?

pRaCtIcE wUt U pReEcH!!1!!

Edited December 15, 2021 by motonoggin

[Rod]

Except communism isn’t an improvement. It’s a huge step backwards 

[akvanden]

1 hour ago, motonoggin said:

Commerce is not capitalism.

That's one of the biggest lies capitalist propaganda perpetuates.

Freedom of commerce is certainly part of it, in its purest sense. Why a lie?

[motonoggin]

6 minutes ago, akvanden said:

Freedom of commerce is certainly part of it, in its purest sense. Why a lie?

You said it earlier, commerce has been around a lot longer than capitalism. 

[akvanden]

4 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

You said it earlier, commerce has been around a lot longer than capitalism. 

Yeah, capitalism borrowed some of the best practices and bundled them together.

[ArcticCrusher]

1 hour ago, ACE said:

Except communism isn’t an improvement. It’s a huge step backwards 

It's a slight improvement from slavery.  But not much.

[motonoggin]

3 hours ago, akvanden said:

Yeah, capitalism borrowed some of the best practices and bundled them together.

One of the major underpinnings of capitalism is the exploitation of labor, just like feudalism and slavery. I wouldn't call that a "best practice". 

Edited December 16, 2021 by motonoggin

[motonoggin]

3 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

It's a slight improvement from slavery.  But not much.

So you're saying it's better than capitalism? 🤔

[akvanden]

Just now, motonoggin said:

One of the major underpinnings of capitalism is the exploitation of labor, just like feudalism and slavery. I wouldn't call that exactly a "best practice". 

That's more of an unfortunate outcome at times rather than an underpinning. The freedom to sell goods and services (labor) at will is a negotiation by both sides, not one. 

 

[motonoggin]

14 minutes ago, akvanden said:

That's more of an unfortunate outcome at times rather than an underpinning. The freedom to sell goods and services (labor) at will is a negotiation by both sides, not one. 

 

That's not capitalism, that's commerce. 

Capitalism is not a farmer's market, it's a factory. 

Under capitalism, there is a monopsony of labor by capital. Workers are forced to rent their labor to capitalists in order to survive. Capitalism steals the surplus value of that labor and rewards it to the capitalist. This is a coercive arrangement, not a mutually beneficial one.

Edited December 16, 2021 by motonoggin

[akvanden]

29 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

That's not capitalism, that's commerce. 

Capitalism is not a farmer's market, it's a factory. 

Under capitalism, there is a monopsony of labor by capital. Workers are forced to rent their labor to capitalists in order to survive. Capitalism steals the surplus value of that labor and rewards it to the capitalist. This is a coercive arrangement, not a mutually beneficial one.

And commerce plays a central role in capitalism. You can't have capitalism without commerce.

And yes, monopolies can occur over time, depending on the allocation of expenses/capital, how efficiently it's used, etc. Some are better than others at allocating capital.

Slave labor is not an underpinning, rather an unfortunate outcome that can occur. And the idea of pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps and the optimism and innovation that drives will always outlast any system that "shares for the greater good."

[motonoggin]

6 hours ago, akvanden said:

And commerce plays a central role in capitalism. You can't have capitalism without commerce.

And yes, monopolies can occur over time, depending on the allocation of expenses/capital, how efficiently it's used, etc. Some are better than others at allocating capital.

Slave labor is not an underpinning, rather an unfortunate outcome that can occur. And the idea of pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps and the optimism and innovation that drives will always outlast any system that "shares for the greater good."

You can have commerce without capitalism though.

Exploitation of labor is absolutely not an unfortunate occasional occurrence, it's the main theme, bro. If workers were paid the full value of their labor, capitalism would cease to exist. 

 

[motonoggin]

[motonoggin]

[akvanden]

1 hour ago, motonoggin said:

You can have commerce without capitalism though.

Exploitation of labor is absolutely not an unfortunate occasional occurrence, it's the main theme, bro. If workers were paid the full value of their labor, capitalism would cease to exist. 

 

Two parties, freely at their own will, negotiating an exchange of labor is exploitation?

Good luck trying to convince everyone who has a job that they’re a slave being exploited. That will really get them to understand where you’re coming from.

[EvilBird]

Yeah Communist Slave Labor is great....I mean we need iPHONEs and shitty name brand clothes...Biden gets it. 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by EvilBird

[snoughnut]

9 hours ago, akvanden said:

And commerce plays a central role in capitalism. You can't have capitalism without commerce.

And yes, monopolies can occur over time, depending on the allocation of expenses/capital, how efficiently it's used, etc. Some are better than others at allocating capital.

Slave labor is not an underpinning, rather an unfortunate outcome that can occur. And the idea of pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps and the optimism and innovation that drives will always outlast any system that "shares for the greater good."

What a load of BS. Unfortunate outcome? The exploitation of slave labor is intentional, it has nothing to do with luck. Slave labor still exists today, plenty of American corps. exploit foreign labor. I have a question, when American corps. exploit foreign slave labor does that qualify as them pulling up their bootstraps? 

[EvilBird]

8 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

What a load of BS. Unfortunate outcome? The exploitation of slave labor is intentional, it has nothing to do with luck. Slave labor still exists today, plenty of American corps. exploit foreign labor. I have a question, when American corps. exploit foreign slave labor does that qualify as them pulling up their bootstraps? 

He thinks the world is full of unicorns and rainbows .....And the US Border stops all Globalization efforts, and any facts that prove otherwise is a conspiracy theory.