10,000 jobs?

[spin_dry]

1 minute ago, Carlos Danger said:

A problem that can be traced to our educational system. 1.4 Trillion of College debt and yet skilled positions go unfilled to the tune of what 5 Million positions? We have brain washed kids into thinking that being a College educated Barista at Starbucks with a life time of student debt is better than having a trade and making 60 to 100K as a plumber or machinist. 

i worked in a trade during my twenties. just wasn't challenging enough. i could've stayed there and been miserable. the trades aren't for everyone. why do something that you hate just because it might please a parent, spouse, or society? who wants to be a man in their 50's or 60's only to realize that they've worked for years in a job that they hate just because it paid the bills? do what makes you happy. if it's a trade, great...if it's screwing cars together, great. if it's taking a liberal arts degree and working for the CiA or FBI... great. just don't settle. 

[Carlos Danger]

Just now, Zambroski said:

Agreed.  This is just stupid.  Coal is still a viable power producer.  And the "clean coal" burning technologies have come a long way.

We need a long term Energy plan and as of yet no president or congress has taken this task on. Energy producers are forced to make decisions on what the laws allow and what it is likely to allow. Our Grid has grown old waiting for a uniform plan that long term investments can be made on. 

[Carlos Danger]

Just now, spin_dry said:

i worked in a trade during my twenties. just wasn't challenging enough. i could've stayed there and been miserable. the trades aren't for everyone. why do something that you hate just because it might please a parent, spouse, or society? who wants to be a man in their 50's or 60's only to realize that they've worked for years in a job that they hate just because it paid the bills? do what makes you happy. if it's a trade, great...if it's screwing cars together, great. if it's taking a liberal arts degree and working for the CiA or FBI... great. just don't settle. 

But the opposite of this is true as well. How great is it to be in your 20s with crushing student loan debt that you will never over come because some student counselor talked you into a liberal arts degree. Higher education and for profit schools are almost criminal at this stage.

[spin_dry]

2 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

We need a long term Energy plan and as of yet no president or congress has taken this task on. Energy producers are forced to make decisions on what the laws allow and what it is likely to allow. Our Grid has grown old waiting for a uniform plan that long term investments can be made on. 

huh? there's been an ever evolving energy plan. industry utilizes forms of energy that make the most sense, economically, politically, and environmentally. america is doing pretty fucking good. anyone that says we're not is fucked in the head. here's what's going to kill coal. trump wants to expand fracking onto federal lands. a byproduct of fracking in natural gas. lots of it. that means lots and lots of clean natural gas for decades. coal is fucking done. 

[spin_dry]

3 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

But the opposite of this is true as well. How great is it to be in your 20s with crushing student loan debt that you will never over come because some student counselor talked you into a liberal arts degree. Higher education and for profit schools are almost criminal at this stage.

totally disagree. there's plenty of avenues for individuals with liberal arts degrees. it's a matter of will. and the old liberal arts degree argument is right wing rhetoric. those degrees just aren't that popular these days. 

[Zambroski]

6 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

huh? there's been an ever evolving energy plan. industry utilizes forms of energy that make the most sense, economically, politically, and environmentally. america is doing pretty fucking good. anyone that says we're not is fucked in the head. here's what's going to kill coal. trump wants to expand fracking onto federal lands. a byproduct of fracking in natural gas. lots of it. that means lots and lots of clean natural gas for decades. coal is fucking done. 

Really?  What "ever evolving energy plan" is long term?  It's not like we're picking between twenty plans and ideas.

Are you delusional?

1 minute ago, spin_dry said:

totally disagree. there's plenty of avenues for individuals with liberal arts degrees. it's a matter of will. and the old liberal arts degree argument is right wing rhetoric. those degrees just aren't that popular these days. 

Yep.  Delusional.  Do you work or live in a civilized area?  

[ICEMAN!]

21 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Agreed.  This is just stupid.  Coal is still a viable power producer.  And the "clean coal" burning technologies have come a long way.

Coal is done.  The cost per kWh for solar has declined to the point where it is directly competing with coal.  Power generation will be decentralized in the very near future.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-06/wind-and-solar-are-crushing-fossil-fuels

[Cold War]

13 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

i worked in a trade during my twenties. just wasn't challenging enough. i could've stayed there and been miserable. the trades aren't for everyone. why do something that you hate just because it might please a parent, spouse, or society? who wants to be a man in their 50's or 60's only to realize that they've worked for years in a job that they hate just because it paid the bills? do what makes you happy. if it's a trade, great...if it's screwing cars together, great. if it's taking a liberal arts degree and working for the CiA or FBI... great. just don't settle. 

What trade?   I know guys who cut lawns and landscape.  They love it, wouldn't trade it for a higher paying desk job.   A lot of people take pride in working with their hands and the job they do.  I do what a lot of people do for a hobby, can't be all that bad.  The worst part of my job is having to be in the office. 

[02sled]

36 minutes ago, Anler said:

We can charge them a tarriff. They impose them on us. Seems ridiculous that we would allow that. 

That's fine but bottom line... get ready to pay a lot more for that product than you do today and it will likely have little or no impact on jobs at home. The other big killer someone else mentioned is lots of jobs are going away as a result of computerization and automation. I remember the days of having to get in line at the bank to make a deposit or withdrawal, have my pass book updated and stamped by hand. There was a huge number of tellers. Now I don't remember the last time I went into a bank for any of that. The last time I did was in a bank was to sign some papers and there was one teller in the middle of the afternoon.

 

[02sled]

40 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

Declaring a war on Coal never made much sense either. It would seem you would want to have a replacement ready before you leave behind what is still a large portion of US and Canadian power production.  

No more coal fired electrical production in Ontario

[spin_dry]

1 minute ago, 02sled said:

No more coal fired electrical production in Ontario

who wants the hassle of coal when there's clean and abundant natural gas? it's pretty dumb. 

[spin_dry]

17 minutes ago, Cold War said:

What trade?   I know guys who cut lawns and landscape.  They love it, wouldn't trade it for a higher paying desk job.   A lot of people take pride in working with their hands and the job they do.  I do what a lot of people do for a hobby, can't be all that bad.  The worst part of my job is having to be in the office. 

HVAC for 4 years. then i jumped into electronic component repair/service tech for 5 years. then i figured out what i wanted to do. 

Edited December 26, 2016 by spin_dry

[Zambroski]

29 minutes ago, ICEMAN! said:

Coal is done.  The cost per kWh for solar has declined to the point where it is directly competing with coal.  Power generation will be decentralized in the very near future.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-06/wind-and-solar-are-crushing-fossil-fuels

You live in a world different than ours.  Wind and solar are unpredictable and cannot sustain a most large areas with their minimal stored reserves. Coal isn't going anywhere anytime soon.  Still about 70% of our power comes from fossil fuels and somewhere around 30-40 percent come from Coal.

The answer is Nuclear.  But, we are to ignorant to see it.  And now we are behind the 8 ball in plant construction.

28 minutes ago, Cold War said:

What trade?   I know guys who cut lawns and landscape.  They love it, wouldn't trade it for a higher paying desk job.   A lot of people take pride in working with their hands and the job they do.  I do what a lot of people do for a hobby, can't be all that bad.  The worst part of my job is having to be in the office. 

Yep.  Trades are where most will find the future. These colleges pumping out 100's of thousands of grads every year is a complete joke.  A business degree is easy and a dime a couple of dozen.  Oh, and a liberal art degree?  Yes, I'll have the turtle mocha no cream please.

 

[ICEMAN!]

12 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

You. It's live in a world different than ours.  Wind and solar are unpredictable and cannot sustain a most large areas with their minimal stored reserves. Coal isn't going anywhere anytime soon.  Still about 70% of our power comes from fossil fuels and somewhere around 30-40 percent come from Coal.

The answer is Nuclear.  But, we are to ignorant to see it.  And now we are behind the 8 ball in plant construction.

Yep.  Trades are where most will find the future. These colleges pumping out 100's of thousands of grads every year is a complete joke.  A business degree is easy and a dime a couple of dozen.  Oh, and a liberal art degree?  Yes, I'll have the turtle mocha no cream please.

 

Coal will still be used as will natural gas and nuclear for awhile yet, but demand on them will be reduced and eventually eliminated.  The idea of coal making some big comeback is ridiculous.

 

[snoughnut]

2 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

You. It's live in a world different than ours.  Wind and solar are unpredictable and cannot sustain a most large areas with their minimal stored reserves. Coal isn't going anywhere anytime soon.  Still about 70% of our power comes from fossil fuels and somewhere around 30-40 percent come from Coal.

The answer is Nuclear.  But, we are to ignorant to see it.  And now we are behind the 8 ball in plant construction.

Yep.  Trades are where most will find the future. These colleges pumping out 100's of thousands of grads every year is a complete joke.  A business degree is easy and a dime a couple of dozen.  Oh, and a liberal art degree?  Yes, I'll have the turtle mocha no cream please.

 

It blows my mind some of the useless garbage they're being taught that will never benefit them in the real world (gotta keep those self important professors employed). Most of the gen. ed. classes kids take are a joke, like music....."I'm gonna set the world on fire with my flute" . Not to mention, all these over educated idiots have an elevated sense of self importance......"I'm a special snowflake and I will not settle for a job where I may have to actually work and get my hands dirty". We wonder why all these kids are moving back in with mom and dad and staying longer than ever.

[Zambroski]

5 minutes ago, ICEMAN! said:

Coal will still be used as will natural gas and nuclear for awhile yet, but demand on them will be reduced and eventually eliminated.  The idea of coal making some big comeback is ridiculous.

 

 

I don't think it is so much of anyone thinking it is making a "comeback" as much as realizing it is still a viable, abundant source that is being discounted too soon without a lot of merit (or real world replacement).

[Zambroski]

5 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

It blows my mind some of the useless garbage they're being taught that will never benefit them in the real world (gotta keep those self important professors employed). Most of the gen. ed. classes kids take are a joke, like music....."I'm gonna set the world on fire with my flute" . Not to mention, all these over educated idiots have an elevated sense of self importance......"I'm a special snowflake and I will not settle for a job where I may have to actually work and get my hands dirty". We wonder why all these kids are moving back in with mom and dad and staying longer than ever.

It's become an absolute joke.  And a very sad one.  Our education system is an epic failure.  Colleges have become an enormous industry lying to the public about their advantages of a college degree.  Their costs are out of control.  One of the things I have a problem with is politicians standing on the "free college education" soapbox, when that will never happen.  But how about this reality:  why don't we make our public education system accountable?  Kill those teacher unions.  Make performance the job guarantor.  Maybe dig us out of the mid 20's and low 30th percentile in the world on math and science.  Because REALLY?  But a 4 year degree and $30-$60k in debt (or mom and dads wasted money) is the answer?  A complete joke.  And a degree that offers no real world training at all or so little it doesn't even register on the radar (lib arts), wow....hey...do it if you like that stuff, just don't expect somebody to want to pay you a lot to do it.  You know where those degrees do better though?  Uh huh....the education system.  Now that's a real head scratcher!  Union anyone?

 

[Carlos Danger]

Just now, ICEMAN! said:

Coal will still be used as will natural gas and nuclear for awhile yet, but demand on them will be reduced and eventually eliminated.  The idea of coal making some big comeback is ridiculous.

 

Everyone knows that coal will be used less and less in the future but that could be 20 to 30 years away. Certainly premature to be declaring war on the substance.  I really like your crayon drawing of the power grid of the future where did you get it? Mother earth news or Dem Underground?

[Zambroski]

2 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

Everyone knows that coal will be used less and less in the future but that could be 20 to 30 years away. Certainly premature to be declaring war on the substance.  I really like your crayon drawing of the power grid of the future where did you get it? Mother earth news or Dem Underground?

Yeah...I like that too.  This one is nice also:

[02sled]

31 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

It blows my mind some of the useless garbage they're being taught that will never benefit them in the real world (gotta keep those self important professors employed). Most of the gen. ed. classes kids take are a joke, like music....."I'm gonna set the world on fire with my flute" . Not to mention, all these over educated idiots have an elevated sense of self importance......"I'm a special snowflake and I will not settle for a job where I may have to actually work and get my hands dirty". We wonder why all these kids are moving back in with mom and dad and staying longer than ever.

They come out of school with totally unrealistic expectations especially on what they will earn. I've had people take a few computer science courses and when you ask what their salary expectations are many say with a very straight face anywhere from $75K to $100K as an entry level position.

[Carlos Danger]

14 minutes ago, ICEMAN! said:

Coal is done.  The cost per kWh for solar has declined to the point where it is directly competing with coal.  Power generation will be decentralized in the very near future.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-06/wind-and-solar-are-crushing-fossil-fuels

Without Mass storage wind and solar will never be a replacement. 

[ICEMAN!]

32 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

Without Mass storage wind and solar will never be a replacement. 

You don't need mass storage, just enough small scale storage to make a difference.  Tesla has already done this with their Powerwall 2.  Couple that with their solar cell shingles and you've offset most or all of your electricity consumption.  This is going to happen faster than most people think as it will be a simple pocketbook decision.

[BOHICA]

38 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

Without Mass storage wind and solar will never be a replacement. 

It is relatively easy to store mass amounts of electricity

[ArcticCrusher]

2 hours ago, ICEMAN! said:

Coal is done.  The cost per kWh for solar has declined to the point where it is directly competing with coal.  Power generation will be decentralized in the very near future.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-06/wind-and-solar-are-crushing-fossil-fuels

can you run your home entirely off wind or solar?   still a ways I think.   I always liked geothermal. 

[ArcticCrusher]

3 hours ago, spin_dry said:

i worked in a trade during my twenties. just wasn't challenging enough. i could've stayed there and been miserable. the trades aren't for everyone. why do something that you hate just because it might please a parent, spouse, or society? who wants to be a man in their 50's or 60's only to realize that they've worked for years in a job that they hate just because it paid the bills? do what makes you happy. if it's a trade, great...if it's screwing cars together, great. if it's taking a liberal arts degree and working for the CiA or FBI... great. just don't settle. 

Most in real trades make much more than those in liberal arts, just sayin.  But sure if you are happy knowing you degree is useless yet you like what you do, all the power to you.