Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted September 3, 2019 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, hayward said: to try and fool the computer maybe into getting past timing retard mode? I don't know, i'm just asking? Yes. My question is why not at least vary the RPM up to WOT some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, Highmark said: Yes. My question is why not at least vary the RPM up to WOT some. My guess is they weren't trying to "break in " the motor at all itself, but just get past the computer timing thing. It's gotta be a bitch when you're trying to dyno sleds on an even basis, but you have different scenarios with different sleds as far as computer timing differences right out of the crate and all. I can't see how it's a fair playing field. Ride the damn things on snow for a season and then dyno em for accuracy would be my thinking. Wouldn't do any good though trying to sell new first year sleds I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted September 3, 2019 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, hayward said: My guess is they weren't trying to "break in " the motor at all itself, but just get past the computer timing thing. It's gotta be a bitch when you're trying to dyno sleds on an even basis, but you have different scenarios with different sleds as far as computer timing differences right out of the crate and all. I can't see how it's a fair playing field. Ride the damn things on snow for a season and then dyno em for accuracy would be my thinking. Wouldn't do any good though trying to sell new first year sleds I guess. Correct on the mode but old school always says breaking in motors at too constant of RPM is not good. I would never jack a sled up and just let it run at one RPM for more than a few minutes. They really should have detailed more on what they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, hayward said: My guess is they weren't trying to "break in " the motor at all itself, but just get past the computer timing thing. It's gotta be a bitch when you're trying to dyno sleds on an even basis, but you have different scenarios with different sleds as far as computer timing differences right out of the crate and all. I can't see how it's a fair playing field. Ride the damn things on snow for a season and then dyno em for accuracy would be my thinking. Wouldn't do any good though trying to sell new first year sleds I guess. That's probably a more than fair guess. That's why these things always dyno better mid year. We'll see. But still, dynoing 15 hp better? Maybe one in ten. Still, from what I've been reading on it, it sounds like this will certainly at least be in the "160 class." 10 minutes ago, Highmark said: Correct on the mode but old school always says breaking in motors at too constant of RPM is not good. I would never jack a sled up and just let it run at one RPM for more than a few minutes. They really should have detailed more on what they did. Astonishing to see just how many people don't know how to break a motor in properly. They don't wanna hurt it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 53 minutes ago, Woodtick said: This is going to kill Cats mountain segment where hp maters. Not sure about their trail sleds? It will just be a over priced 600 I guess? they don;t care, they already sold every sled they were making for this year, beauty of not floorplanning dealers 2020's that they bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGNHL Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, Highmark said: Correct on the mode but old school always says breaking in motors at too constant of RPM is not good. I would never jack a sled up and just let it run at one RPM for more than a few minutes. They really should have detailed more on what they did. X2, both my 800 etecs I had I broke in with a 1 mile easy run around the lake then WOT pulls back and forth until it hit 10 miles, then usually trail ridden after that. Both made it over 10,000 miles with original internals and both ran pretty competitive with other 800s even with me being a pretty big dude. Also I'm a firm believer that Tylor Buttcocks is just trolling for the sake of trolling, that's his MO to a tee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awful knawful Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Rapid Anus said: Did it myself. I had the 2010.5 800 etec demo and buddy had an f8 Barney. Neck and neck until about 105 mph then the etec started to inch away So the best 800 cat ever produced got beat by 10 year old skidoo tech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 53 minutes ago, awful knawful said: So the best 800 cat ever produced got beat by 10 year old skidoo tech? Actually the old ctec made more power than the etec 800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted September 3, 2019 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, Rapid Anus said: Actually the old ctec made more power than the etec 800 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted September 3, 2019 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 3, 2019 I think all 3 800's are pretty close and I think both 850's will be 4-10 HP stronger like has typically shown. Sleds of the same model can dyno 3-5 hp different. Just the way its always been. That being said a well clutched/set up sled will give sleds 10 hp more fits all day long. So many factors go into racing your buddies on the lake. From traction to weight of the rider. I for one am looking forward to riding a sled with the new cat engine. Disappointed the one guy in our group who I figured would have one ordered a 850 poo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, Highmark said: Etec 800 was 163 at bikeman new 2019 alpha hit 164 same dyno oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Highmark said: I think all 3 800's are pretty close and I think both 850's will be 4-10 HP stronger like has typically shown. Sleds of the same model can dyno 3-5 hp different. Just the way its always been. That being said a well clutched/set up sled will give sleds 10 hp more fits all day long. So many factors go into racing your buddies on the lake. From traction to weight of the rider. I for one am looking forward to riding a sled with the new cat engine. Disappointed the one guy in our group who I figured would have one ordered a 850 poo. The 850 doo makes around 8-9? More hp than the 2019 ctec 800 at bikeman. Even if the new cat is only 5-6 more hp the difference is basically nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted September 3, 2019 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, Rapid Anus said: Etec 800 was 163 at bikeman new 2019 alpha hit 164 same dyno oops 1 hp on a performance company that loves Cat. Ok. Like I said they all are close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, Highmark said: 1 hp on a performance company that loves Cat. Ok. Like I said they all are close. I said more on the same dyno. 1 hp is more! ive heard from many that the 2019 cat is noticeably quicker than the 17-18 so I dunno. Old forge shootoot shows it too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted September 3, 2019 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 3, 2019 And this whole time I thought Doo owners were the most annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManOnManOral Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Rapid Anus said: I said more on the same dyno. 1 hp is more! ive heard from many that the 2019 cat is noticeably quicker than the 17-18 so I dunno. Old forge shootoot shows it too my 19 crushes the brp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, Highmark said: And this whole time I thought Doo owners were the most annoying. Curve ball I’m a doo guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, Highmark said: I think all 3 800's are pretty close and I think both 850's will be 4-10 HP stronger like has typically shown. Sleds of the same model can dyno 3-5 hp different. Just the way its always been. That being said a well clutched/set up sled will give sleds 10 hp more fits all day long. So many factors go into racing your buddies on the lake. From traction to weight of the rider. I for one am looking forward to riding a sled with the new cat engine. Disappointed the one guy in our group who I figured would have one ordered a 850 poo. The Polaris sleds with the scaffold have a better holeshot than any other sled I've seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted September 3, 2019 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Rapid Anus said: Curve ball I’m a doo guy! Makes sense now. Edited September 3, 2019 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awful knawful Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 36 minutes ago, Rapid Anus said: Etec 800 was 163 at bikeman new 2019 alpha hit 164 same dyno oops Same dyno? Do some research. I believe they got a different Dyno??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Highmark said: Correct on the mode but old school always says breaking in motors at too constant of RPM is not good. I would never jack a sled up and just let it run at one RPM for more than a few minutes. They really should have detailed more on what they did. Always heard that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, awful knawful said: Same dyno? Do some research. I believe they got a different Dyno??? Yup cat made more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roosting Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 The surface finish left behind from the finish hone leaves just enough grittiness to finish hone the rings to the bore. A keystone ring utilizes the pressure from the cylinder to force the ring into the cylinder bore to seal the ring to the bore. The surface finish wears off after a certain amount of running time. You want to maximize the ring hone while the cylinder has this initial surface finish. To do this you need to have max cylinder pressure, to get this you need to be WFO to press the rings into the cylinder. Running the sled at idle for 5 hours to time out the break in mode basically killed the cylinder finish to hone the rings. They will still bed in but it will take a long time. Same issue with good synthetic oil, ring seating will take longer than with dino oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awful knawful Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Roosting said: The surface finish left behind from the finish hone leaves just enough grittiness to finish hone the rings to the bore. A keystone ring utilizes the pressure from the cylinder to force the ring into the cylinder bore to seal the ring to the bore. The surface finish wears off after a certain amount of running time. You want to maximize the ring hone while the cylinder has this initial surface finish. To do this you need to have max cylinder pressure, to get this you need to be WFO to press the rings into the cylinder. Running the sled at idle for 5 hours to time out the break in mode basically killed the cylinder finish to hone the rings. They will still bed in but it will take a long time. Same issue with good synthetic oil, ring seating will take longer than with dino oil. Who said it was run at idle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 14 minutes ago, awful knawful said: Who said it was run at idle? It says on a stand. That means not under load. Impossible to break a motor in correctly on a stand. It could be broken in on a dyno but not on a stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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