motonoggin Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, MiSledder said: My daughter goes to msu, she works for msu also, i wish i had the energy to share all her co workers excuses for not showing up Kids have ootions, not obligations Is failing a drug test an exploiting labor? Do you English? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiSledder Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, steve from amherst said: I do , he gets paid well and a company truck. Moto says youre exploiting him regardless of what you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted January 24, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, MiSledder said: Moto says youre exploiting him regardless of what you do That's because moto thinks he should be making what I make and I should be making what he makes , or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiSledder Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Do you English? Omg! A spelling error! You got me good moto! I better take a good hard look at my life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, MiSledder said: Moto says youre exploiting him regardless of what you do If he makes more money on him than he pays him, he is. That's what capitalism is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiSledder Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, steve from amherst said: That's because moto thinks he should be making what I make and I should be making what he makes , or less. Theres a reason moto is jobless and bitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiSledder Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, motonoggin said: If he makes more money on him than he pays him, he is. That's what capitalism is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, MiSledder said: I gave up on employees in 2002, got rid of my shop and changed the way I did business so I did need employees, guys would steal shit for their side projects or eventually start working on their own and start hitting up my customers The final straw was the day I had a customer onntheir way to pic up a 65 chevelle, employee burned the fender and set the buffing wheel down and went home, never said a word to me, but he still needed his check friday Thanks s all part of running a business. You kinda have to decide what you wanna get pissed about. I bet everyone of my employees has a company cordless drill and a ladder at their house. And they treat company tools like they are disposable. It's pretty infuriating. But in the end I have bigger things to worry about. I've got a pretty good group of guys but there is always bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted January 24, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: If he makes more money on him than he pays him, he is. That's what capitalism is all about. Yes it is and its a beautiful thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: If he makes more money on him than he pays him, he is. That's what capitalism is all about. What formula are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted January 24, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, ArcticCrusher said: What formula are you using? If the dude has a plain burger and I have a cheeseburger I'm exploiting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriftBusta Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, MiSledder said: Theres a reason moto is jobless and bitter Wait, wut? So that explains it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 Jobless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, motonoggin said: If he makes more money on him than he pays him, he is. That's what capitalism is all about. We know where you stand on capitalism, but we are at an intersection right now that I feel you are mischaracterizing. There are plenty of good companies that are struggling to find labor who have had no other option but to raise wages. With that, another parallel approach is increasing worker satisfaction as a way to retain and hire new employees. While the debate on Capitalism vs non-authoritarian communism can be had, in this moment the system we currently live in needs to be addressed in some form. The problem is willingness to perform labor even when well compensated and treated fairly to the best of an employers ability. It is hard to find labor. Part of that, I truly feel, is a sociological dilemma of what “Work” is worth doing. Even in a pure communist society, cars need to be fixed, yards mowed, walls painted, etc. I think the employer willingness to compensate is there right now in small business America. The problem is desire to perform the work rather than the compensation/treatment/hierarchical structure of the labor itself. Every business owner I know (anecdotal) will bend over backwards for reliable labor. That is a good thing. That is a powerful position for employees willing to invest their time. Again, in the end no matter the system, the work is still required. How does a non-authoritarian communist system make people feel different about the “work” itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s pump Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: We know where you stand on capitalism, but we are at an intersection right now that I feel you are mischaracterizing. There are plenty of good companies that are struggling to find labor who have had no other option but to raise wages. With that, another parallel approach is increasing worker satisfaction as a way to retain and hire new employees. While the debate on Capitalism vs non-authoritarian communism can be had, in this moment the system we currently live in needs to be addressed in some form. The problem is willingness to perform labor even when well compensated and treated fairly to the best of an employers ability. It is hard to find labor. Part of that, I truly feel, is a sociological dilemma of what “Work” is worth doing. Even in a pure communist society, cars need to be fixed, yards mowed, walls painted, etc. I think the employer willingness to compensate is there right now in small business America. The problem is desire to perform the work rather than the compensation/treatment/hierarchical structure of the labor itself. Every business owner I know (anecdotal) will bend over backwards for reliable labor. That is a good thing. That is a powerful position for employees willing to invest their time. Again, in the end no matter the system, the work is still required. How does a non-authoritarian communist system make people feel different about the “work” itself? You get the wall! Oh yeah have somebody paint that up after they're done shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, s pump said: You get the wall! Oh yeah have somebody paint that up after they're done shooting. I understand where Moto is coming from on this topic, and respectfully disagree with his overarching view of capitalism. I just think part of the conversation has to be had with doing the “work” in any system and the lack of motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s pump Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: I understand where Moto is coming from on this topic, and respectfully disagree with his overarching view of capitalism. I just think part of the conversation has to be had with doing the “work” in any system and the lack of motivation. How dare you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: We know where you stand on capitalism, but we are at an intersection right now that I feel you are mischaracterizing. There are plenty of good companies that are struggling to find labor who have had no other option but to raise wages. With that, another parallel approach is increasing worker satisfaction as a way to retain and hire new employees. While the debate on Capitalism vs non-authoritarian communism can be had, in this moment the system we currently live in needs to be addressed in some form. The problem is willingness to perform labor even when well compensated and treated fairly to the best of an employers ability. It is hard to find labor. Part of that, I truly feel, is a sociological dilemma of what “Work” is worth doing. Even in a pure communist society, cars need to be fixed, yards mowed, walls painted, etc. I think the employer willingness to compensate is there right now in small business America. The problem is desire to perform the work rather than the compensation/treatment/hierarchical structure of the labor itself. Every business owner I know (anecdotal) will bend over backwards for reliable labor. That is a good thing. That is a powerful position for employees willing to invest their time. Again, in the end no matter the system, the work is still required. How does a non-authoritarian communist system make people feel different about the “work” itself? Workers would retain control over the value of their labor. The closest thing we have to this in the current economy are employee co-ops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Workers would retain control over the value of their labor. The closest thing we have to this in the current economy are employee co-ops What is that value? Do they know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Workers would retain control over the value of their labor. The closest thing we have to this in the current economy are employee co-ops I think the issue I still have is even with labor valued at acceptable levels, does the actual nature of the work draw interest? Does anyone want to scrub floors or work in the cold on a roof? Menial tasks that are difficult to automate. What incentives that work when fairly valued and easier (more comfortable) work is available? The issue remains the same in my opinion. Why do that when something perceived better is an option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 14 hours ago, Cold War said: Wow, he really flipped out. I hope she will be alright. she'll probably need counselling to get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepr2 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: Stay tuned for the next episode of The Petite Bourgeois Whine About How Exploiting Labor is Hard Work LOL! 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: Workers would retain control over the value of their labor. The closest thing we have to this in the current economy are employee co-ops Thay already do, no one os forced to work for any business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: If he makes more money on him than he pays him, he is. That's what capitalism is all about. I am starting a contract in a couple of months. The work will last approximately 4 to 5 months with most of the work requiring an on site presence. I need a person to assist me on the project. Their role would be to gather information that I need to put together and execute the project. A lot of it is pretty basic. Open a server cabinet, list the make and model of the server and how many rack units it occupies, how many power cords and data connections. Then map out where those data cables patch into and the sockets the power cords plug into. I would be doing the same for part of the time. Once I plan the execution of the project and map out step by step what needs to be done to achieve the objective he / she will need to follow the plan precisely along with some of the employees of the company we are doing the work for. Most of the people I have interviewed want the same as I am getting paid or in some cases even more. They would need to set themselves up as a sole proprietorship. I am not going to be saddled with the complexities of having them as an employee for a few months and the liabilities that go along with it. I will have a Master Services Agreement with them and deal with getting all the authorization / permits required to do the work. If things go wrong it's me that has to answer to the client and face the penalties not my assistant. But I guess in Doponoggins world to only pay them 80% of what I get for their time as part of the contract would be exploitation even though there isn't any risk on their part but lots on mine. Edited January 24, 2018 by 02sled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 On the plus side, if you are a young, hard working employee there is all kinds of opportunity for you. My daughter and SIL have done very well for themselves, but they show up and work hard everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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