Tesla costs the least; German brands the most, in CR’s exclusive analysis

[Deephaven]

11 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Tesla safety blows competition away.

All survived.

 

.  

He is definitely your kind of people

Edited April 28 by Deephaven

[ArcticCrusher]

Did you want to say something Deepfaggot?

[Kev144]

Who will want a 5-6 year old tesla knowing a 20k battery job is on the horizon.  With the price drops recently a buddy has lost near 70k on his 2020 or 21 tesla model y.  Oof.  

[XCR1250]

6 minutes ago, Kev144 said:

Who will want a 5-6 year old tesla knowing a 20k battery job is on the horizon.  With the price drops recently a buddy has lost near 70k on his 2020 or 21 tesla model y.  Oof.  

Wonder how much an Auto Salvage yard will buy it for?

[BOHICA]

7 minutes ago, Kev144 said:

Who will want a 5-6 year old tesla knowing a 20k battery job is on the horizon.  With the price drops recently a buddy has lost near 70k on his 2020 or 21 tesla model y.  Oof.  

Batteries last much longer than that.  Couple 100k miles and 15 plus years

[Kev144]

1 minute ago, BOHICA said:

Batteries last much longer than that.  Couple 100k miles and 15 plus years

Not quite 

[BOHICA]

2 minutes ago, XCR1250 said:

Wonder how much an Auto Salvage yard will buy it for?

They bring good money just for the battery.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285218241284?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=285218241284&targetid=1645685073248&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=1016202&poi=&campaignid=20133407470&mkgroupid=147476396765&rlsatarget=pla-1645685073248&abcId=9312979&merchantid=118875706&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD_QDh9moY2b0eSRr-Uusm2QEZpUH&gclid=CjwKCAjw57exBhAsEiwAaIxaZgwiEco0KP-VAuUpyqlxqvkX_WOQTcuP0RdRHRu94PGGxRGcY7FtZBoCQnUQAvD_BwE

[XCR1250]

They do buy Junk so I imagine they will buy all the EV's they can for scrap.

[BOHICA]

100% salvage vehicles they bring lots of money.  Bid on this one on copart is up to $9500.  Lots of after market like them for swaps in classic cars and such.

https://www.copart.com/lot/47189554/Photos/clean-title-2020-tesla-model-y-nc-gastonia

[BOHICA]

9 minutes ago, Kev144 said:

Not quite 

Most definitely.

 

 Tesla's own data show Model S and X batteries retain about 90 percent of their original capacity on average over 200,000 miles of use. Tesla CEO Elon Musk also once tweeted that the battery pack in the Model 3 and Model Y was designed to last 1,500 charging cycles, which translates to about 300,000 miles for Standard Range models and about 500,000 miles for Long Range versions.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-long-does-a-tesla-battery-last/

[racinfarmer]

Not sure I can trust a report that says the German cars cost more then a Land Rover for maintenance costs.

I mean, maybe the Land Rovers were eliminated from the report since there are none on the road that are 6+ years old.  They are long dead and mechanically totaled by then.

[XCR1250]

 If someone gave me an EV for free I'd cut it up for the junk they are.

[Doug]

[800renegaderider]

1 hour ago, BOHICA said:

100% salvage vehicles they bring lots of money.  Bid on this one on copart is up to $9500.  Lots of after market like them for swaps in classic cars and such.

https://www.copart.com/lot/47189554/Photos/clean-title-2020-tesla-model-y-nc-gastonia

This one was literally given to a coworker. The story was the guy couldn’t find anyplace to take the thing. It sat out back for couple years until he quit and towed it away.

[BOHICA]

24 minutes ago, 800renegaderider said:

This one was literally given to a coworker. The story was the guy couldn’t find anyplace to take the thing. It sat out back for couple years until he quit and towed it away.

😂 your co worker is an idiot.  Model s modules are a favorite for home back up power and solar storage.  Old batteries bring good money.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/395281111022?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1w5xBZoDjRUK_xIa2Hk6bhw13&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=395281111022&targetid=1644837434323&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9033313&poi=&campaignid=21214270471&mkgroupid=159705723285&rlsatarget=pla-1644837434323&abcId=9407517&merchantid=427087169&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD_QDh8-UDxEidrVVbtlxJXOFMPGa&gclid=CjwKCAjw57exBhAsEiwAaIxaZinCBwkXa_yDKUk15ES6_4WGz5mhzChMpdeItMgnYdtJE7R0iZ3SaRoCGNoQAvD_BwE

[800renegaderider]

2 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

😂 your co worker is an idiot.  Model s modules are a favorite for home back up power and solar storage.  Old batteries bring good money.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/395281111022?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1w5xBZoDjRUK_xIa2Hk6bhw13&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=395281111022&targetid=1644837434323&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9033313&poi=&campaignid=21214270471&mkgroupid=159705723285&rlsatarget=pla-1644837434323&abcId=9407517&merchantid=427087169&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD_QDh8-UDxEidrVVbtlxJXOFMPGa&gclid=CjwKCAjw57exBhAsEiwAaIxaZinCBwkXa_yDKUk15ES6_4WGz5mhzChMpdeItMgnYdtJE7R0iZ3SaRoCGNoQAvD_BwE

He wasn’t the brightest bulb but hey he got a free Tesla. He was supposed to take the battery out and sell it when he was first given the car. I think the motor was bad though I don’t really remember the thing was destroyed wasn’t much good on it. I have no idea what he ended up doing with it after he quit. I swiped the emblem for my collection though lol

[XCR1250]

EVs have 79% more reliability problems than gas cars, says Consumer Reports

Teething problems abound with new electric powertrains.

JONATHAN M. GITLIN - 11/29/2023, 12:13 PM

Enlarge

Getty Images

349

Widely accepted wisdom has it that electric vehicles are easier to maintain than those with internal combustion powertrains. It seems intuitive—EVs have many fewer moving parts than cars that have to detonate small quantities of hydrocarbon fuel thousands of times a minute. But the data don't really bear out the idea. In fact, according to data collected by Consumer Reports, EVs are significantly less reliable than conventionally powered cars.

CR is known for buying cars for its own test fleet, but for its annual auto reliability survey, the organization cast a wider net. Specifically, it gathered data from 330,000 owners of vehicles from model year 2000 onwards, and it uses that survey data to generate reliability scores for each vehicle and model year.

The results are a little inconvenient for the EV evangelist. EVs had 79 percent more reliability problems than a gasoline- or diesel-powered vehicle, on average. Plug-in hybrids fared even worse; these had 146 percent more issues on average than the conventional alternative. But simpler not-plug-in hybrids bucked this trend, with 26 percent fewer reliability problems than conventionally powered vehicles.

PHEVs also had the greatest number of potential trouble areas. A conventionally powered car, truck, or SUV has 17 main problem areas, according to CR, including minor stuff like trim rattling and more significant areas like the engine or transmission. PHEVs have all these plus electric motors, a high-voltage traction battery, and charging to contend with.

Hybrids have 19 potential trouble areas—all the above minus the charging problem—and EVs have just 12, since they go without things like internal combustion engines, fueling systems, or transmissions. (Yes, if you want to be very pedantic you could point out the Porsche Taycan and Audi e-Tron GT have two-speed transmissions, but no one will be impressed.)

Electric motors, charging, and battery problems make up most of the EV reliability complaints (and those are charging problems with the car, not with home or public charging hardware). The relative rawness of most EVs on sale is a big factor in this, and CR has some good advice for potential EV buyers: Do not get seduced by that launch edition vehicle.

"EVs are still in their relative infancy as mainstream vehicles, so it’s really not surprising that manufacturers, by and large, are still working out the kinks. That said, we are seeing signs of movement in the right direction. And as our data has consistently shown, reliability-minded consumers would be best served by forgoing brand new vehicles in their first model year," said Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at CR.

"Hybrids continue to surpass EVs and ICE vehicles for reliability even though hybrids are more complex with gas-powered engines supplemented by an electric drive system. This is because hybrid technology is now over 25 years old and is offered mainly from the most reliable automakers."

At first, CR's data looks like it's in conflict with one of its earlier reports; in 2020, its data showed that EVs and PHEVs had lifetime maintenance costs that were about twice as cheap as for an internal combustion-powered vehicle. But Fisher noted that the earlier study was looking at cost rather than reliability. Since the EVs and PHEVs were mostly under warranty (and EV powertrain warranties are typically much longer than regular powertrain warranties), many repairs did not cost the owners.

Who did well?

Different brands are having different reliability issues. Tesla, despite a legion of horror stories, finds itself very middle of the pack in terms of overall reliability, and in general it builds dependable EV powertrains—less so bodywork, paint/trim, and climate systems. It's the second-highest ranked domestic automaker in CR's list, and its two volume offerings, the Models 3 and Y, have average reliability, according to CR's data and predictions.

EVs from other automakers mostly tell the opposite story. These brands know how to assemble and paint cars, and they can build climate control systems that don't cause too many headaches. But there are many more complaints about their electric powertrains. CR says that the Ford Mustang Mach-E is a notable bright spot, "which has shown enough improvement in its EV battery and charging system to now be rated average for predicted reliability and is eligible for CR’s recommendation."

Meanwhile, PHEVs are the worst of both worlds. As an example, the conventionally powered Chrysler Pacifica minivan is one of CR's recommended picks this year, based on its reliability. But the plug-in hybrid Pacifica is well below average, thanks to plenty of problems with its hybrid drivetrain and charging system.

Those reliability problems affect different manufacturers differently, though. By contrast, Toyota's RAV4 Prime was one of the most reliable vehicles in the entire survey, despite being a PHEV.

[BOHICA]

1 hour ago, XCR1250 said:

EVs have 79% more reliability problems than gas cars, says Consumer Reports

Teething problems abound with new electric powertrains.

JONATHAN M. GITLIN - 11/29/2023, 12:13 PM

Enlarge

Getty Images

349

Widely accepted wisdom has it that electric vehicles are easier to maintain than those with internal combustion powertrains. It seems intuitive—EVs have many fewer moving parts than cars that have to detonate small quantities of hydrocarbon fuel thousands of times a minute. But the data don't really bear out the idea. In fact, according to data collected by Consumer Reports, EVs are significantly less reliable than conventionally powered cars.

CR is known for buying cars for its own test fleet, but for its annual auto reliability survey, the organization cast a wider net. Specifically, it gathered data from 330,000 owners of vehicles from model year 2000 onwards, and it uses that survey data to generate reliability scores for each vehicle and model year.

The results are a little inconvenient for the EV evangelist. EVs had 79 percent more reliability problems than a gasoline- or diesel-powered vehicle, on average. Plug-in hybrids fared even worse; these had 146 percent more issues on average than the conventional alternative. But simpler not-plug-in hybrids bucked this trend, with 26 percent fewer reliability problems than conventionally powered vehicles.

PHEVs also had the greatest number of potential trouble areas. A conventionally powered car, truck, or SUV has 17 main problem areas, according to CR, including minor stuff like trim rattling and more significant areas like the engine or transmission. PHEVs have all these plus electric motors, a high-voltage traction battery, and charging to contend with.

Hybrids have 19 potential trouble areas—all the above minus the charging problem—and EVs have just 12, since they go without things like internal combustion engines, fueling systems, or transmissions. (Yes, if you want to be very pedantic you could point out the Porsche Taycan and Audi e-Tron GT have two-speed transmissions, but no one will be impressed.)

Electric motors, charging, and battery problems make up most of the EV reliability complaints (and those are charging problems with the car, not with home or public charging hardware). The relative rawness of most EVs on sale is a big factor in this, and CR has some good advice for potential EV buyers: Do not get seduced by that launch edition vehicle.

"EVs are still in their relative infancy as mainstream vehicles, so it’s really not surprising that manufacturers, by and large, are still working out the kinks. That said, we are seeing signs of movement in the right direction. And as our data has consistently shown, reliability-minded consumers would be best served by forgoing brand new vehicles in their first model year," said Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at CR.

"Hybrids continue to surpass EVs and ICE vehicles for reliability even though hybrids are more complex with gas-powered engines supplemented by an electric drive system. This is because hybrid technology is now over 25 years old and is offered mainly from the most reliable automakers."

At first, CR's data looks like it's in conflict with one of its earlier reports; in 2020, its data showed that EVs and PHEVs had lifetime maintenance costs that were about twice as cheap as for an internal combustion-powered vehicle. But Fisher noted that the earlier study was looking at cost rather than reliability. Since the EVs and PHEVs were mostly under warranty (and EV powertrain warranties are typically much longer than regular powertrain warranties), many repairs did not cost the owners.

Who did well?

Different brands are having different reliability issues. Tesla, despite a legion of horror stories, finds itself very middle of the pack in terms of overall reliability, and in general it builds dependable EV powertrains—less so bodywork, paint/trim, and climate systems. It's the second-highest ranked domestic automaker in CR's list, and its two volume offerings, the Models 3 and Y, have average reliability, according to CR's data and predictions.

EVs from other automakers mostly tell the opposite story. These brands know how to assemble and paint cars, and they can build climate control systems that don't cause too many headaches. But there are many more complaints about their electric powertrains. CR says that the Ford Mustang Mach-E is a notable bright spot, "which has shown enough improvement in its EV battery and charging system to now be rated average for predicted reliability and is eligible for CR’s recommendation."

Meanwhile, PHEVs are the worst of both worlds. As an example, the conventionally powered Chrysler Pacifica minivan is one of CR's recommended picks this year, based on its reliability. But the plug-in hybrid Pacifica is well below average, thanks to plenty of problems with its hybrid drivetrain and charging system.

Those reliability problems affect different manufacturers differently, though. By contrast, Toyota's RAV4 Prime was one of the most reliable vehicles in the entire survey, despite being a PHEV.

Right from your article.  Tesla is the second highest ranked domestic on CR list.  
 

 

“Different brands are having different reliability issues. Tesla, despite a legion of horror stories, finds itself very middle of the pack in terms of overall reliability, and in general it builds dependable EV powertrains—less so bodywork, paint/trim, and climate systems. It's the second-highest ranked domestic automaker in CR's list, and its two volume offerings, the Models 3 and Y, have average reliability, according to CR's data and predictions.”

[Highmark]

Ford and Tesla are sitting on thousands and thousands of unsold units.   Bohica can suck EV's off all he wants the reality is they are not becoming as popular as quickly as the left wants them too.  They still are a niche vehicle.  

When considering vehicle ownership cost lets add in the billions and billions govt is spending on charging stations.  Then add in the cost of green energy production like wind and solar to charge them because that's the end goal.   When you look at all costs EV's are not cheaper to run. 

Edited April 29 by Highmark

[BOHICA]

A 2020 Consumer Reports studysimilarly showed that EV drivers tend to spend about 60 percent less each year on fuel costs compared to drivers of gas-powered cars. And in 2023, the nonpartisan policy firm Energy Innovation released a report showing that these savings benefit drivers across the United States: Every EV model in every state is cheaper to fill than a gas-powered vehicle. These savings are largely based on the fact that current EVs are 2.6 to 4.8 times more efficient at traveling a mile compared to a gasoline internal combustion engine, according to real world data collected by the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE).
 

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/electric-vs-gas-cars-it-cheaper-drive-ev

[Doug]

 

[XCR1250]

EV's are garbage and will become obsolete.

[toslow]

1 minute ago, XCR1250 said:

EV's are garbage and will become obsolete.

They are already as sales have gone obsolete 

[Highmark]

Who in their right mind would buy a used EV within a few years of the battery warranty expiring.   

[ArcticCrusher]

Ford lost 130K on every single EV they sold.