Gold Member BOHICA Posted April 22 Gold Member Share Posted April 22 When comparing cumulative costs by brand for years one through five and six through 10, we found that Tesla had the lowest maintenance costs. At the opposite end of the rankings, several German automakers are clustered as the most expensive brands, namely Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Porsche. https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 They needed a study? Anyone who has owned a higher end Krautmobile could have answered this for them. It is surprising how close the lower number manufacturers are. I am slightly confused though at the 10 year numbers. I find it difficult to believe the Tesla at 10 years does not need a battery. That would throw them much closer to the high end of the spectrum IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamgreen02 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, Voodoo said: They needed a study? Anyone who has owned a higher end Krautmobile could have answered this for them. It is surprising how close the lower number manufacturers are. I am slightly confused though at the 10 year numbers. I find it difficult to believe the Tesla at 10 years does not need a battery. That would throw them much closer to the high end of the spectrum IMO. The Tesla warranty is almost 10 years long on the battery. Without a major repair like a drive motor or battery there just isn't as much mechanical on the Tesla to go wrong. These new direct injected turbocharged engines with 10+ speed transmissions aren't cheap to fix either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) 4 minutes ago, teamgreen02 said: The Tesla warranty is almost 10 years long on the battery. Without a major repair like a drive motor or battery there just isn't as much mechanical on the Tesla to go wrong. These new direct injected turbocharged engines with 10+ speed transmissions aren't cheap to fix either. For sure. The 8 year warranty should offer piece of mind but the potential is there. Many of the newer gasser engines being squeezed hard for horsepower and efficiency are problematic and the warranty is no where near the Tesla battery. Plus one for Tesla. I'd own one if I could justify another vehicle....and would not expect my friends an neighbor to pick up part of the cost. That's my only issue with all things green, the grift. Edited April 22 by Voodoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted April 22 Author Gold Member Share Posted April 22 Just now, Voodoo said: They needed a study? Anyone who has owned a higher end Krautmobile could have answered this for them. It is surprising how close the lower number manufacturers are. I am slightly confused though at the 10 year numbers. I find it difficult to believe the Tesla at 10 years does not need a battery. That would throw them much closer to the high end of the spectrum IMO. Batteries typically last around 1500 charge cycles. Teslas typically don’t need any batteries until well past 200,000 miles. If a battery goes before that it is a very rare circumstance like a gas powered vehicle blowing up before 200k miles factory warranties on batteries and “powertrain” are pretty long and with high mileages limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamgreen02 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 9 minutes ago, Voodoo said: For sure. The 8 year warranty should offer piece of mind but the potential is there. Many of the newer gasser engines being squeezed hard for horsepower and efficiency are problematic and the warranty is no where near the Tesla battery. Plus one for Tesla. I'd own one if I could justify another vehicle....and would not expect my friends an neighbor to pick up part of the cost. That's my only issue with all things green, the grift. My next car will probably be a used Model 3 Long Range AWD. I just use it for going to town and back and commuting to work. Any long distance trips is usually with my truck going up north. Or we could take my wife's Explorer. Just waiting for the EV market to totally crash and my Focus to completely rot apart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mag6240 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Couple guys on my pool team - one has a 2018 Mustang Shelby Cobra GT 500 6MT (~700hp) and another has a 2018 Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor - the Tesla beats the Mustang in almost every situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted April 22 Author Gold Member Share Posted April 22 Charging an EV vs filling with gas also offers huge savings but varies by state. My state for example EV drivers save $2200 a year when compared to a gas vehicle. Do combined with maintenance and repair savings and fuel saving it’s a no brainer financially speaking. Idaho has the highest savings — up to $2200 per year — where less fuel-efficient vehicles are common along with high gas prices and cheap electricity. Created by Argonne National Laboratory, researchers found that no matter where you live in the country, you will save driving an electric vehicle. https://www.energy.gov/policy/articles/save-2200-year-driving-electric-vehicle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamgreen02 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, BOHICA said: Charging an EV vs filling with gas also offers huge savings but varies by state. My state for example EV drivers save $2200 a year when compared to a gas vehicle. Do combined with maintenance and repair savings and fuel saving it’s a no brainer financially speaking. Idaho has the highest savings — up to $2200 per year — where less fuel-efficient vehicles are common along with high gas prices and cheap electricity. Created by Argonne National Laboratory, researchers found that no matter where you live in the country, you will save driving an electric vehicle. https://www.energy.gov/policy/articles/save-2200-year-driving-electric-vehicle One advantage I see is every time I leave home my "tank" would be full. I don't like having to stop on the way for fuel. Kind of a hassle to get into Sam's or Costco. I think it's $0.04/kWh here with an off-peak EV meter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted April 27 Author Gold Member Share Posted April 27 Guess about the typical longevity of Tesla batteries. I would say model 3’s and Y’s are at least 1/2 million mile batteries. “The Fully Charged Show tells the story of Nigel Raynard from Australia, who covers around 350 miles daily and drove his 2018 Tesla Model S on its original battery pack until it reached about 413,000 miles. Getting over 400,000 miles out of one battery pack seems consistent (even a bit above average) with the other high-mileage Tesla Model S sedans we’ve covered. The highest-mileage Model S in existence, a 2014 P85, has done over 1.24 million miles, and it’s now on its fourth battery pack, so it’s gotten about 300,000 miles out of each pack https://insideevs.com/news/717654/tesla-model-s-400k-mile-battery/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 And of course highway driving on a transmission and engine makes them last that long or longer as well. Either way the biggest problem with the Tesla is the car. It sucks as a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Federal regulator finds Tesla Autopilot has 'critical safety gap' linked to hundreds of collisions ROB WILE AND LORA KOLODNY, CNBC Updated April 26, 2024 at 3:41 PM Federal authorities say a “critical safety gap” in Tesla’s Autopilot system contributed to at least 467 collisions, 13 resulting in fatalities and “many others” resulting in serious injuries. The findings come from a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration analysis of 956 crashes in which Tesla Autopilot was thought to have been in use. The results of the nearly three-year investigation were published Friday. Tesla’s Autopilot design has “led to foreseeable misuse and avoidable crashes,” the NHTSA report said. The system did not “sufficiently ensure driver attention and appropriate use.” NHTSA’s filing pointed to a “weak driver engagement system,” and Autopilot that stays switched on even when a driver isn’t paying adequate attention to the road or the driving task. The driver engagement system includes various prompts, including “nags” or chimes, that tell drivers to pay attention and keep their hands on the wheel, as well as in-cabin cameras that can detect when a driver is not looking at the road. According to the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation data, 13 fatal collisions evaluated in the probe resulted in the deaths of 14 people. The agency also said it was opening a new probe into the effectiveness of a software update Tesla previously issued as part of a recall in December. That update was meant to fix Autopilot defects that NHTSA identified as part of this same investigation. The voluntary recall via an over-the-air software update covered 2 million Tesla vehicles in the U.S., and was supposed to specifically improve driver monitoring systems in Teslas equipped with Autopilot. NHTSA suggested in its report Friday that the software update was probably inadequate, since more crashes linked to Autopilot continue to be reported. In one recent example, a Tesla driver in Snohomish County, Washington, struck and killed a motorcyclist on April 19, according to records obtained by CNBC and NBC News. The driver told police he was using Autopilot at the time of the collision. The NHTSA findings are the most recent in a series of regulator and watchdog reports that have questioned the safety of Tesla’s Autopilot technology, which the company has promoted as a key differentiator from other car companies. On its website, Tesla says Autopilot is designed to reduce driver “workload” through advanced cruise control and automatic steering technology. Tesla has not issued a response to Friday’s NHTSA report and did not respond to a request for comment sent to Tesla’s press inbox, investor relations team and to the company’s vice president of vehicle engineering, Lars Moravy. Following the release of the NHTSA report, Sens. Edward J. Markey, D-Mass., and Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., issued a statement calling on federal regulators to require Tesla to restrict its Autopilot feature "to the roads it was designed for." On its Owner's Manual website, Tesla warns drivers not to operate the Autosteer function of Autopilot "in areas where bicyclists or pedestrians may be present," among a host of other warnings. "We urge the agency to take all necessary actions to prevent these vehicles from endangering lives,” the senators said. Earlier this month, Tesla settled a lawsuit from the family of Walter Huang, an Apple engineer and father of two, who died in a crash when his Tesla Model X with Autopilot features switched on hit a highway barrier. Tesla has sought to seal from public view the terms of the settlement. In the face of these events, Tesla and CEO Elon Musk signaled this week that they are betting the company’s future on autonomous driving. “If somebody doesn’t believe Tesla’s going to solve autonomy, I think they should not be an investor in the company,” Musk said on Tesla’s earnings call Tuesday. He added, “We will, and we are.” Musk has for years promised customers and shareholders that Tesla would be able to turn its existing cars into self-driving vehicles with a software update. However, the company only offers driver assistance systems and has not produced self-driving vehicles to date. He has also made safety claims about Tesla’s driver assistance systems without allowing third-party review of the company’s data. For example, in 2021, Elon Musk claimed in a post on social media, “Tesla with Autopilot engaged now approaching 10 times lower chance of accident than average vehicle.” Philip Koopman, an automotive safety researcher and Carnegie Mellon University associate professor of computer engineering, said he views Tesla’s marketing and claims as “autonowashing.” He also said in response to NHTSA’s report that he hopes Tesla will take the agency’s concerns seriously moving forward. “People are dying due to misplaced confidence in Tesla Autopilot capabilities. Even simple steps could improve safety,” Koopman said. “Tesla could automatically restrict Autopilot use to intended roads based on map data already in the vehicle. Tesla could improve monitoring so drivers can’t routinely become absorbed in their cellphones while Autopilot is in use.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted April 27 Author Gold Member Share Posted April 27 33 minutes ago, Deephaven said: And of course highway driving on a transmission and engine makes them last that long or longer as well. Either way the biggest problem with the Tesla is the car. It sucks as a car. 200,000-250,000 most engines, transmissions and such have had mounds of maintenance and possibly major repairs and rebuilds to keep them on the road that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Not when driven 350mi a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted April 27 Author Gold Member Share Posted April 27 Extreme minority of petroleum power vehicles last 250000 miles. “The average vehicle has only an 11.8 percent chance of lasting 250,000 miles” https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Extreme minority of vehicles are driven 350mi a day. That is SUPER easy mileage. More akin to idling than driving.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted April 27 Author Gold Member Share Posted April 27 6 minutes ago, Deephaven said: Extreme minority of vehicles are driven 350mi a day. That is SUPER easy mileage. More akin to idling than driving.. Very few Gas vehicles will last that long with out extreme maintenance regime and expense. Plus the decrease in performance gas vehicles by 250,000 miles is pretty noticeable unless they are freshened up and at times rebuilt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Again, not if driven 350mi a day. Wake up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Last week I was in the middle of the Sonoran desert on the El Camino del Diablo trail overlooking Mexico’s hwy 2 in the far distance. No place for an EV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA Contributing Member $poorsledder$ Posted April 27 USA Contributing Member Share Posted April 27 Audi and VW: Overengineered German crap. Tesla: Poorly engineered, overpriced American crap. Just say'n.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Tesla cars have a few biggest problems that make them less than perfect. If you're considering buying one, read on to find out about the 15 major issues Tesla cars have. 1. They have a poor build quality Tesla cars have a lot of problems with their build quality. The interiors are designed well, but the materials used to make them are often low-quality, which causes a lot of issues down the road. Even some of the exterior parts of Tesla cars wear out after only a few months. If tesla cars were of good quality there would be no issues of bolts rusting off, fuses sticking out, or paint peeling off. However, not everything on tesla is of poor quality. The roof and the body panels are all made from high-quality materials, and their interiors are nice as well. 2. They are expensive to maintain The batteries on tesla cars have to be taken care of to keep them running, but the repairs that you have to do can cost you a lot the maintenance costs on tesla cars are more than any car, and they are more expensive than the maintenance costs of other electric cars as well. If you compare it up to other cars that use gas, their cost is still high. They also have unnecessary repairs needed, like fixing a computer or replacing parts that are not broken. Tesla cars are great when they work, but if you want to get them fixed right away, they can be expensive. The average maintenance cost of a tesla is around $1100 a year, which is much more than most other cars out there. RELATED: Why Is Insurance For Tesla So Expensive? 3. Replacing the batteries is a hassle There's a big problem with the batteries in Tesla cars. They have long warranties which say they will last for 8 years, but after that warranty runs out the batteries can cost thousands of dollars to replace. The main issue with replacing the batteries is that you cannot remove them from your car yourself. Additionally, you have to go direct to Tesla to get the right type of battery. The main types of batteries are lithium and nickel-metal hydride. You cannot replace these batteries yourself with a traditional model. RELATED: How Much Does It Cost To Replace The Battery In A Tesla? 4. Tesla cars have issues with autopilot features The self-driving features on tesla cars are great. They can steer, accelerate and decelerate without any human assistance, but they also have a lot of driver-related problems. The sensors are supposed to be able to detect pedestrians, signs, and other vehicles, but they can't do that well all the time. It is impossible to detect every little thing out there, but tesla cars don't even register some things that other cars should. When it does work, the autopilot feature is awesome, but it can be dangerous when it does not work. RELATED: The 8 Leading Companies In Self-Driving Cars of 2022 5. Lacks a towing capacity If you plan on towing anything with your tesla car. prepare yourself for the worst. Tesla cars do not have a towing capacity of 2,500 pounds like other cars, which makes them much less comfortable to tow with. Many others can tow up to 8,000 pounds without issues, but tesla cannot handle that. It will limit you on what you can do, as well as how you can use your car. Also, if you want to pull a boat or trailer of any kind, tesla cars are high-tech, and coming off the road for long periods can cause problems. RELATED: The 7 Best SUVs for Towing 2020 6. More Rattling in the suspension Tesla cars have a lot of problems with the suspension system. It is supposed to last a long time, and it could be, but that's not true for all Tesla cars. There are many different types of vehicles out there, and not all Tesla cars have the same suspensions. It makes it hard for them to handle bumps on the road and decreases their overall lifespan. Bumps do something that shocks tesla cars more than other cars. The shocks are not made to handle the way tesla cars' suspension handles bumps, which often ruins their suspension. It can start to rattle and shake in the front of the car and it can be very annoying. 7. The power steer fails occasionally Tesla cars have an electric power steering system that makes them feel like they are sports cars, but it will fail sometimes. It's not a problem most days, but if you're involved in an accident the power steering can make your car feel like it's going to fall off the road. There are also reports of other drivers seeing the power steer system going in and out of sync while driving which can be dangerous. While turning, you can feel the steering take a few seconds to respond, and it makes driving a little less enjoyable. 8. Frequent wear of tires This may seem like a problem that many cars have, but it is more of a problem with a Tesla car. They have tires that wear out too fast, and they think that the problem is with the tires themselves. They claim the tires have uneven tread on both sides of the tire, but this isn't what's causing the problems. The wheels are not perfectly aligned to their center axis, and it makes the tire wear out much faster than it should. Also, if you have a tesla car that has a lot of miles on it. The tires will likely wear out. Buying new tires can make your car a lot safer, and it will increase the life of your tesla car. 9. Lacks car dealership support If you ever have problems with your tesla car, you will be on your own. Tesla cars do not have a traditional dealership support system, and they are all independent of each other. Many people rely on their car dealerships to fix problems and help them choose the right car for their needs. If your local tesla dealer is the only one around, then you're out of luck. You can go to other dealerships, but it might be harder for you to find the kind of car you want. If you're looking at purchasing a traditional car. then you should look into the dealership system and make sure that it works for you. 10. Stereotypical customer service Tesla cars are pretty much new. so they do not have a traditional customer service system. If you have a problem with your tesla car. you will be on your own. You could go to Tesla's website, but it's not like a traditional website where you can get help right away. Many people turn to forums and communities to help them with their problems when they're having issues with their tesla car or other vehicles. Having decent customer service would be a great addition to their cars, and it would help them earn more customers. 11. Problem with Touch screen Cruise Control Adjustment The main problem is that it is located on the center touchscreen and can be distracting. If you are paying attention to the road, you could end up in the wrong direction by mistake. The "clicking" sound that causes a lot of distraction also makes it hard to avoid traffic when you're merging onto a freeway. 12. Buggy updates Tesla is notorious for releasing new versions of their software, and they constantly release updates that fix bugs and improve the user experience. However. these updates are often buggy and might end up making the car worse than it was before they were installed. Tesla cars have had problems with their updates. Even though it was fixed in a few days, this kind of problem could happen again in the future. Besides. there have been cases where the update breaks the car's connectivity. These types of crashes can be avoided by getting an emergency battery pack. 13. Not good on snow Tesla cars are not good in the snow, since their tires are generally not good at moving through rough or slippery conditions. Tesla cars fall short when it comes to having enough power to climb steep hills or even to move through heavy snow storms. Tesla cars may not be as good at driving down icy roads, because they're designed to be less sensitive to cold weather than other vehicles. Also, their tires tend to stay much cleaner than those of other cars. The snow tracked by the Tesla car tires is better to meet and keep the car moving safely. 14. Cold Battery Degradation This is related to the 13th problem. Tesla experts claim that a cold battery can only travel for about 60 miles, which is almost half the distance compared to what it can travel in moderate temperatures. It makes Tesla cars not great for people who live in cold climates. Although the current produced by a cold battery is smaller, however, it still has a lot of energy in it This energy can be used to facilitate the lifting effect of an electromagnet. Hence, cold batteries are the most suitable for transmitting high voltage electricity through wires, but they do not help provide power to everyday objects like cars or homes due to their low power output and low output current. 15. Unreliable dashboard warning lights The dashboard warning lights are probably the most necessary feature of a car. It tells you when your oil pressure needs to be checked or when your tire pressure has inflated. In Tesla's case, the dashboard warning lights are unreliable. The online community has complained about how their meters go off randomly, which can be confusing for the driver because they don't know if it is real or fake. This problem creates a lot of unnecessary stress and seriously reduces the safety factor of Tesla cars. The Bottom Line Tesla cars are very cool and unique, but they are not the best car to buy. The big problem that Tesla owners have with their cars is the poor build quality, expensive maintenance, and they are no car dealership support for them... If you are looking to buy a Tesla car, then make sure you keep these problems in mind before you purchase it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted Saturday at 11:03 PM Author Gold Member Share Posted Saturday at 11:03 PM Million mile battery warranty just around the corner for China EV’s. CATL also got into a partnership with NIO to help it test and deploy lifetime electric car batteries that will allow EV makers to give a 15-yearbattery warranty. This could spearhead the used EV market, as more than 20 million electric cars will start coming out of warranty in the next few years. CATL already provides battery packs that last 12 years for NIO's EV battery swap stations. Its new 15-year battery will first go to more heavy-duty vehicles like buses or trucks, which are typically used for a longer period than cars. In fact, NIO and CATL are not only striving to deploy 15-year EV battery warranty, but also to mandate 85% remaining capacity after that period. Besides zero degradation in 1,000 cycles, and a 15-year lifespan before capacity drops to 85%, the new long-life CATL battery is rated to cover 1.5 million kilometers during its years in service, or nearly one million miles. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Electric-vehicles-can-claim-15-year-warranty-as-CATL-outs-million-mile-battery-with-zero-degradation-in-1000-cycles.819405.0.html#:~:text=15-year EV warranty,in the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X2700 Posted Saturday at 11:43 PM Share Posted Saturday at 11:43 PM Todays gas cars easily get 250k if maintained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X2700 Posted Saturday at 11:49 PM Share Posted Saturday at 11:49 PM Boss picked up his new plaid couple weeks ago!! gotta say that thing is crazy fast!! 150 mph almost instantly!! still rather drive his new vette!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted Sunday at 02:06 AM Share Posted Sunday at 02:06 AM Tesla safety blows competition away. All survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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