858 on the dyno at Dynotech

[awful knawful]

15 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

I said 172 to what ever. Pre production means jack btw.

So, you were wrong? Again?!

How many production sleds came to market making more HP than pre production units?

[Deephaven]

Zero

[J. Jackson]

2 hours ago, jonlafon1 said:

You just went way the hell over his IQ level.  

Not necessarily, he did go to community college for 2 years.

[mnstang]

1 hour ago, Palu49 said:

The bold is the problem

Problem for who, sideline reporters that aren't in the game?

Why do supposed consumers care if an offering will entice other riders?  I've never once cared about that in my life.

Let me guess, because we are fcs market watch and care about the well being of cat corporate (that we hate on every day).   FFS the entire industry has given zero shits about brp and Polaris since haydays 2022.  I forgot lynx even existed til a few days ago.  Cat is dominating the talk of everything, look at this damn forum for example A.  

If someone is buying a sled because of literally a few hp either way on the dyno and that's all they care about, then that's cool for them.  I share zero in common with those people and not concerned about it in the least.  Just like the people who bought r-xc's for their wife because they liked the color the best.  Do I think cat needs to go sell out and go after all the idiots to get the most sales numbers, no I'd rather they didn't.

And it's a fucking dyno number.  It is hard for me to accept people actually care about a few hp either way, I know it's true but hard to accept that level of stupidity.  Hell the doo 600 makes more than the cat 600 on dyno, and snowtrax shit all over the doo 600 in comparison to the cat 600, HOW CAN THAT BE DON'T THEY KNOW THE DYNOS REPORTS!?!?!?!!!!?!!!!!??!!? 

 

[jonlafon1]

53 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

if they'd have gone with the 870 they'd have gotten 171hp

touché  

 

 

 

[Palu49]

21 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Problem for who, sideline reporters that aren't in the game?

Why do supposed consumers care if an offering will entice other riders?  I've never once cared about that in my life.

Let me guess, because we are fcs market watch and care about the well being of cat corporate (that we hate on every day).   FFS the entire industry has given zero shits about brp and Polaris since haydays 2022.  I forgot lynx even existed til a few days ago.  Cat is dominating the talk of everything, look at this damn forum for example A.  

If someone is buying a sled because of literally a few hp either way on the dyno and that's all they care about, then that's cool for them.  I share zero in common with those people and not concerned about it in the least.  Just like the people who bought r-xc's for their wife because they liked the color the best.  Do I think cat needs to go sell out and go after all the idiots to get the most sales numbers, no I'd rather they didn't.

And it's a fucking dyno number.  It is hard for me to accept people actually care about a few hp either way, I know it's true but hard to accept that level of stupidity.  Hell the doo 600 makes more than the cat 600 on dyno, and snowtrax shit all over the doo 600 in comparison to the cat 600, HOW CAN THAT BE DON'T THEY KNOW THE DYNOS REPORTS!?!?!?!!!!?!!!!!??!!? 

 

You can have all the hype you want but if you’re going to move sleds with that hype you need to deliver on it. A me too motor doesn’t take advantage of the the hype and therefor doesn’t pull people off other brands.

[jonlafon1]

20 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Why do supposed consumers care if an offering will entice other riders? 

Because it creates sales and keeps a company in business. Its positive hype and marketing in racing and having that winning brand and flash.  Its called market share and Cat is falling further behind with shitty set ups straight out of the crate. 

[krom]

46 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Problem for who, sideline reporters that aren't in the game?

Why do supposed consumers care if an offering will entice other riders?  I've never once cared about that in my life.

Let me guess, because we are fcs market watch and care about the well being of cat corporate (that we hate on every day).   FFS the entire industry has given zero shits about brp and Polaris since haydays 2022.  I forgot lynx even existed til a few days ago.  Cat is dominating the talk of everything, look at this damn forum for example A.  

If someone is buying a sled because of literally a few hp either way on the dyno and that's all they care about, then that's cool for them.  I share zero in common with those people and not concerned about it in the least.  Just like the people who bought r-xc's for their wife because they liked the color the best.  Do I think cat needs to go sell out and go after all the idiots to get the most sales numbers, no I'd rather they didn't.

And it's a fucking dyno number.  It is hard for me to accept people actually care about a few hp either way, I know it's true but hard to accept that level of stupidity.  Hell the doo 600 makes more than the cat 600 on dyno, and snowtrax shit all over the doo 600 in comparison to the cat 600, HOW CAN THAT BE DON'T THEY KNOW THE DYNOS REPORTS!?!?!?!!!!?!!!!!??!!? 

 

better check your claims:

Quote

the Cat 600 engine was stronger – logging 127 ponies vs. the E-TEC’s 123

https://snowgoer.com/news/ny-shootout-results-times-dyno-test-and-more/30053/

 

If consumers didn't care, we would all be riding free air singles..

HP and performance sells, right behind new tech.  600 cc sleds haven't been the top selling catagory in a decade or more.  Until the catalyst came out, we sold more 998 turbos than 600's. 

In 2016 the 850 doo made 170 at dynotech, a year later the 840 poo made 167 or 169

Textron has had since 2018 to develop something better than that, and they had the best 2 stroke design/development team in the world to do it.  But instead, they fired most of the team, and cut the r&d budget to almost 0.  Those guys had patents on direct injected turbo (fed with pressurized oil) 2  stroke.

What the end up putting out is an engine that equals a 8 year old doo, and a 7 year old poo, and comes in less than the 9r. 

Do you really thing that poo, and doo stopped development 8 years ago?

This engine needed to meet or beat the 9r on the dyno, because just equaling the competition isn't going to be anywhere near enough to bring back all the customers they drove away, let alone bring in new customers.

Edited March 1 by krom

[krom]

14 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Only when gay shit is pushed my way. Drinking Crown right now. Sleep is over rated. 

 

13 hours ago, jonlafon1 said:

WTF are you saying?   Crown royal was distilled by a guy claiming to be a girl?  
 

He said crown, not Crown Royal.

Jimwit, and alaskan karen have the same beverage of choice:

Edited March 1 by krom

[Tommcat]

3 hours ago, mnstang said:

It is hard for me to accept people actually care about a few hp either way, I know it's true but hard to accept that level of stupidity.  Hell the doo 600 makes more than the cat 600 on dyno, and snowtrax shit all over the doo 600 in comparison to the cat 600, HOW CAN THAT BE DON'T THEY KNOW THE DYNOS REPORTS!?!?!?!!!!?!!!!!??!!? 

 

it's amazing for me to accept that ANYONE wouldnt care about HP numbers. absolutely unreal. i think you'd be happy on a 340 fan, with bogie wheels

Edited March 1 by Tommcat

[mnstang]

3 hours ago, krom said:

better check your claims:

https://snowgoer.com/news/ny-shootout-results-times-dyno-test-and-more/30053/

 

If consumers didn't care, we would all be riding free air singles..

HP and performance sells, right behind new tech.  600 cc sleds haven't been the top selling catagory in a decade or more.  Until the catalyst came out, we sold more 998 turbos than 600's. 

In 2016 the 850 doo made 170 at dynotech, a year later the 840 poo made 167 or 169

Textron has had since 2018 to develop something better than that, and they had the best 2 stroke design/development team in the world to do it.  But instead, they fired most of the team, and cut the r&d budget to almost 0.  Those guys had patents on direct injected turbo (fed with pressurized oil) 2  stroke.

What the end up putting out is an engine that equals a 8 year old doo, and a 7 year old poo, and comes in less than the 9r. 

Do you really thing that poo, and doo stopped development 8 years ago?

This engine needed to meet or beat the 9r on the dyno, because just equaling the competition isn't going to be anywhere near enough to bring back all the customers they drove away, let alone bring in new customers.

This just proves (part of) my point, because DTR has dynod the skidoo 600 higher than the catalyst.

[mnstang]

1 hour ago, Tommcat said:

it's amazing for me to accept that ANYONE wouldnt care about HP numbers. absolutely unreal. i think you'd be happy on a 340 fan, with bogie wheels

I care about overall power of a machine and various parts of a machine's engine.  Way more than involved than just a peak dyno number.  And I care most about the overall package of the machine, which the engine is just one part of that.

If you guys want to bleed your panties over a preproduction dyno number being 3hp less than you expected and thinking it's the end of the sled, have at it.  Sounds like fun.

[Tommcat]

1 minute ago, mnstang said:

I care about overall power of a machine and various parts of a machine's engine.  Way more than involved than just a peak dyno number.  And I care most about the overall package of the machine, which the engine is just one part of that.

If you guys want to bleed your panties over a preproduction dyno number being 3hp less than you expected and thinking it's the end of the sled, have at it.  Sounds like fun.

it is not 3 hp less than what i hoped for. anything under 175 was going to be a let down for me

[mnstang]

4 hours ago, jonlafon1 said:

Because it creates sales and keeps a company in business. Its positive hype and marketing in racing and having that winning brand and flash.  Its called market share and Cat is falling further behind with shitty set ups straight out of the crate. 

Cat has all of the hype in the industry and has for a year and a half.  They're going to carry it for another whole year from now at least.  If someone decides to not buy this sled over this dyno without riding the machine, they were never going to buy one.  Not that I care.  Snowmobiling is dying regardless and the average age seems to go up one year every year and is shrinking.  The mountain segment is the only future for the industry if there's one.

Nobody cares about racing it's not the 90's anymore.  I'd bet under 5% of new buyers can't even name one current professional racer.

[Crnr2Crnr]

in the real world, wheelies matter... and it definitely wheelies

 

 

[mnstang]

9 minutes ago, Tommcat said:

it is not 3 hp less than what i hoped for. anything under 175 was going to be a let down for me

Well you had unrealistic dyno expectations.

Let's hypothetically say it's the fastest two stroke in a drag race or whatever real world measurement you desire.  Is it still a disappointment, would you still feel best having top dyno number while getting outperformed riding the machine?

[mnstang]

1 minute ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

in the real world, wheelies matter... and it definitely wheelies

 

 

Who cares about a ride video, let's see the dyno videos 

[jonlafon1]

1 minute ago, mnstang said:

Cat has all of the hype in the industry and has for a year and a half.  They're going to carry it for another whole year from now at least.  If someone decides to not buy this sled over this dyno without riding the machine, they were never going to buy one.  Not that I care.  Snowmobiling is dying regardless and the average age seems to go up one year every year and is shrinking.  The mountain segment is the only future for the industry if there's one.

Nobody cares about racing it's not the 90's anymore.  I'd bet under 5% of new buyers can't even name one current professional racer.

I agree with most of this. I just feel they need to get back to what made them.  Roots of this company has been kicking ass on the tracks and awesome looking sleds that were running reliable motors with good clutching right out of the box. Low slung ass draggers with trail dominance with marketing to boot   Used to love collecting the posters and going to shows looking at new iron.  They lost the flare and glitter and hype. The pride in guys leaving sweat and blood on the track for cat.  I feel the lost the die hard guys that bled green and raced for this brand. I will always bleed green and have pride in this brand.  But is sure has lost its flair and hype from years ago.  It kills me to watch it get closer to gone for good. Only way they get it back is to build shit that backs the hype and is kick ass right from the dealers that set them up.  Back your dealers and pride members with good warranty and support.  I regress. 

[Crnr2Crnr]

Just now, mnstang said:

Who cares about a ride video, let's see the dyno videos 

I watched it yesterday and didn't post it in anticipation of Dyno sheets coming out...

we'd have to look back but pretty certain I said 152hp (800) + 10% (858) = 167.2hp 

tah dah... 

doesn't personally matter one way or the other to me as for where I ride an extra 40-50hp isn't necessary 90% of the time.  hell, I can ride as fast or faster on nearly identical sleds in the woods on the 85hp sled as the 130hp+ sled. 

but, that's just me.  others who hang out on the rail beds, lakes, etc (and most likely) more time in a bar than on the trail 'need' the biggest hp bar stool bragging rights they can purchase.  if that was my thing (it's obviously not) I'd just buy a Tcat or SRX and call Tommy with the credit card. 

this said... if it's 167hp and in the lighter chassis it should be very competitive with the NA Doo and Poo 850's.  competitive... not necessarily better which is what I feel some here were hoping to see. 

Oh well... back to watching MudX from St. Falls SD

[krom]

1 hour ago, Tommcat said:

it is not 3 hp less than what i hoped for. anything under 175 was going to be a let down for me

I've been saying anything less than the 9R isn't going to cut it.  Doo, and poo haven't had their engine development guys sitting with their thumbs up their ass the last 8 years (and poo gained quite a few guys quality guys that textron fired) 
Chances are they both have the next generation ready to go, which is why AC needed to leap frog them, instead of just catching up.
Hell poo will prob release the 9r trail sled in a couple days.

57 minutes ago, mnstang said:

Well you had unrealistic dyno expectations.

Let's hypothetically say it's the fastest two stroke in a drag race or whatever real world measurement you desire.  Is it still a disappointment, would you still feel best having top dyno number while getting outperformed riding the machine?

Textron's marketing department has been claiming the 800 was "165 class horse power" for a long time. 

That lead to a ton of folks thinking the new engine will be in the 180's.  every post and every thread around the release was full of people claiming it would be 165+11%

Now it comes out and its the same "165 class horse power"

I just hope it actually runs,  if its clutched as bad as the 600 its going to be a blood bath next winter.

 

Edited March 1 by krom

[Crnr2Crnr]

not DTR's Dyno... but close enough if comparing the 800 to 858. 

 

I'm fairly sure the first year Ctech 800 was 152 out of break in at DTR... and shot flames like a muthafucka!  🔥

this said... Cat kept calling the CT8 a '160hp class' engine which drove me f'ng nutz!  the moment Cat calls the 858 a 170hp class engine I'll probably lose my shit completely... 

 

 

 

 

[Palu49]

38 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

not DTR's Dyno... but close enough if comparing the 800 to 858. 

 

I'm fairly sure the first year Ctech 800 was 152 out of break in at DTR... and shot flames like a muthafucka!  🔥

this said... Cat kept calling the CT8 a '160hp class' engine which drove me f'ng nutz!  the moment Cat calls the 858 a 170hp class engine I'll probably lose my shit completely... 

 

 

 

 

Our 18 ctecs were the best running 800s any of us owned and only one of them ever caught on fire.

[jonlafon1]

15 minutes ago, Palu49 said:

Our 18 ctecs were the best running 800s any of us owned and only one of them ever caught on fire.

Went down hill from that point big time. 21 was a disgrace 

[mnstang]

1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

not DTR's Dyno... but close enough if comparing the 800 to 858. 

 

I'm fairly sure the first year Ctech 800 was 152 out of break in at DTR... and shot flames like a muthafucka!  🔥

this said... Cat kept calling the CT8 a '160hp class' engine which drove me f'ng nutz!  the moment Cat calls the 858 a 170hp class engine I'll probably lose my shit completely... 

 

 

 

 

So there you have it, 146hp for the ctec.  So that should put the 858 11% bump claim underrated!!  Don't give me crap about weather conditions... Corrected numbers!11iiI

 

Aren't dynos great, that's why we should put all of our opinion into one dyno on one day on a sled we've never rode.  I'm talking fucking horse power bro.

However this doesn't seem to be the popular theme, I'm still learning this dyno/cat-hating game

Edited March 1 by mnstang

[Crnr2Crnr]

Just now, mnstang said:

So there you have it, 146hp for the ctec.  So that should put the 858 11% bump claim underrated!!  Don't give me crap about weather conditions... Corrected numbers!11iiI

However this doesn't seem to be the popular theme, I'm still learning this dyno/cat-hating game

they've been running 858 videos on Flo all afternoon... no dyno sheets or videos, lot's of wheelies.