Snoslinger Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 wgat do scientists know.... noggin approves this message WASHINGTON — Scott Pruitt, the head of the Environmental Protection Agency, moved late on Wednesday to reject the scientific conclusion of the agency’s own chemical safety experts who under the Obama administration recommended that one of the nation’s most widely used insecticides be permanently banned at farms nationwide because of the harm it potentially causes children and farm workers. The ruling by Mr. Pruitt, in one of his first formal actions as the nation’s top environmental official, rejected a petition filed a decade ago by two environmental groups that had asked that the agency ban all uses of chlorpyrifos. The chemical was banned in 2000 for use in most household settings, but still today is used at about 40,000 farms on about 50 different types of crops, ranging from almonds to apples. Late last year, and based in part on research conducted at Columbia University, E.P.A. scientists concluded that exposure to the chemical that has been in use since 1965 was potentially causing significant health consequences. They included learning and memory declines, particularly among farm workers and young children who may be exposed through drinking water and other sources. But Dow Chemical, which sells the product under the trade name Lorsban, along with farm groups that use it, had argued that the science demonstrating that chlorpyrifos caused such harm is inconclusive — especially when properly used to kill crop-spoiling insects. An E.P.A. scientific review panel made up of academic experts last July also had raised questions about some of the conclusions the chemical safety staff had reached. That led the staff to revise the way it had justified its findings of harm, although the agency employees as of late last year still concluded that the chemical should be banned. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/29/us/politics/epa-insecticide-chlorpyrifos.html?_r=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I'm surprised this wasn't about RoundUp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Just shut up and eat the apples! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, racinfarmer said: I'm surprised this wasn't about RoundUp. Round up is an herbacide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Anler said: Round up is an herbacide... Facebook told me otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, racinfarmer said: Facebook told me otherwise... I still don't want to eat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted March 31, 2017 Gold Member Share Posted March 31, 2017 Orchards are typically worked by undocumented immigrants and not americans. No need to get all crazy and shit and go around banning stuff just cause some illegal loses some memory. Is there any alternative out there to make sure my Honey Crisp isn't full of bugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old indy Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 not unless monsanto owns it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 We could have had Bernie....thanks Dems 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Anler said: I still don't want to eat it. I hear you, but in the scheme of ag chemicals, RoundUp is pretty tame stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I'm impressed. Slinger knows almost as much about ag chemicals as he does the crude oil industry. Almost...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, hayward said: I'm impressed. Slinger knows almost as much about ag chemicals as he does the crude oil industry. Almost...... There is no limit to his imagination. Maddowism is a thing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, hayward said: I'm impressed. Slinger knows almost as much about ag chemicals as he does the crude oil industry. Almost...... where did I state I know a lot about ag chemicals? did you bath in this insecticide by chance? it would explain a lot Edited March 31, 2017 by Snoslinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 46 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: where did I state I know a lot about ag chemicals? did you bath in this insecticide by chance? it would explain a lot I wonder too sometimes, as I can recall getting a good "whiff" of it years ago while using it. For the user, some of this shit is just plain nasty to be around. We always said, "it may cure what ailes ya". Who really knows? We used it in such moderation. Think for corn the rate was 6 or 8 lb./acre, applied on the row, in the furrow, by use of the planter. When you think about it, it's miniscule. When we used to plant with open cabs, I remember being able to smell it from the seat if the wind was blowing cross-ways into the path of the direction we were going. So much for "worker re-entry" laws. We have a neighbor who's 80 years old, been farming his whole life. This guy's such a fanatic, we nicknamed him chemical-all-ee. If there's one weed in 20 acres, he'd spray the whole thing. The chemical salesman love him! Sprayed his whole life without a cab, and the last 30 years with a pick-up truck and windows down. The fucker goes like hell everyday yet at 80, so some where along the line he obviously breathed in enough of something to kill all the bad shit and extend his life and endurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, hayward said: I wonder too sometimes, as I can recall getting a good "whiff" of it years ago while using it. For the user, some of this shit is just plain nasty to be around. We always said, "it may cure what ailes ya". Who really knows? We used it in such moderation. Think for corn the rate was 6 or 8 lb./acre, applied on the row, in the furrow, by use of the planter. When you think about it, it's miniscule. When we used to plant with open cabs, I remember being able to smell it from the seat if the wind was blowing cross-ways into the path of the direction we were going. So much for "worker re-entry" laws. We have a neighbor who's 80 years old, been farming his whole life. This guy's such a fanatic, we nicknamed him chemical-all-ee. If there's one weed in 20 acres, he'd spray the whole thing. The chemical salesman love him! Sprayed his whole life without a cab, and the last 30 years with a pick-up truck and windows down. The fucker goes like hell everyday yet at 80, so some where along the line he obviously breathed in enough of something to kill all the bad shit and extend his life and endurance. i think back to the days my cousins and I helped our grandpa wipe out thistles on his farm. we'd have 55 gallon drums of nasty smelling chemicals with spray guns connected to them and we'd spray the thistles as he drove the tractor and trailer around 300 acres. no masks or anything. sometimes I wonder if that's what caused my extra long tallywhacker. Edited March 31, 2017 by Snoslinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 31 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: i think back to the days my cousins and I helped our grandpa wipe out thistles on his farm. we'd have 55 gallon drums of nasty smelling chemicals with spray guns connected to them and we'd spray the thistles as he drove the tractor and trailer around 300 acres. no masks or anything. sometimes I wonder if that's what caused my extra long tallywhacker. Were you riding a bean bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Snoslinger said: i think back to the days my cousins and I helped our grandpa wipe out thistles on his farm. we'd have 55 gallon drums of nasty smelling chemicals with spray guns connected to them and we'd spray the thistles as he drove the tractor and trailer around 300 acres. no masks or anything. sometimes I wonder if that's what caused my extra long tallywhacker. We were handed welding gloves. Stupid ass didn't know at the time that thistle's and horsenettle have rhizomes. Everytime you pull them out the ground, you're really not. You're breaking the underground rhizome and producing more. All that for nothing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Lorsban is my goto. Only thing that really works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 You know it's quite a ride farmers have been on over throughout the years. Long time ago conventional tillage was the main go-to for preparing a seed bed. It took care of alot of problems with weeds, insects, and diseases. Granted chemicals were still used, but not needed to the extent they are today. Along with it came big problems with soil erosion through wind and rain, and run-off of fertilizers and chemicals into lakes, streams, etc. So conventional tillage was born, leaving more dead plant residue on top to protect the soil more. Problem with that is, makes a nice cozy home and work-place for weeds, insects, and diseases. We then got an extensive list of products to use to fight them, and all was quiet for a while. Eventually no-till showed up and that was even worse yet, literally no soil disturbance whatsoever, which means not pretty much all chemical control and basically no mechanical control. Most farmers used atrazine, and when weeds escaped, well, you just put on more atrazine, which really wasn't good and guys no doubt got carried away went above and beyond what the labels allowed you to use legally. So to lighten the use of atrazine, roundup ready was brought to the table. This'll be perfect right? No residual control, just contact. Less residual's needed meaning nothing harmful to the ground water, and the big thing was at the time not a damn thing roundup wouldn't kill (somewhat debatable yes). About the same time or slightly before hand the plant is now bred to fight off soil borne diseases and insects, so no more soil insecticides need to be used. Damn now what will the tree huggers go after they should be happy as a lark now, right? Wrong. Fast forward 15-20 years, and all of a sudden roundup won't kill certain weeds which are detrimental to certain crop's yeild. Diseases and especially insects are now altering their behavior and becoming immune to certain bio-chemistry that the plant was designed to fight off, so now we're back to square one on that deal too and need to add some of those age old insecticides again. Right now we're in the cover crop stage of life, trying to find ways to curb against the total use of all this technology. Maybe not eliminate all together, but deffinately cut back. Problem is we'll cut back, but it will still be too much for this liberal tree-hugging world we live in to accept. So I ask, when is enough enough? Remember, the federal gov't not only needs to know the cost of food, but they need cheap food it's people. The more the crop, the cheaper the end product, which is food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, hayward said: You know it's quite a ride farmers have been on over throughout the years. Long time ago conventional tillage was the main go-to for preparing a seed bed. It took care of alot of problems with weeds, insects, and diseases. Granted chemicals were still used, but not needed to the extent they are today. Along with it came big problems with soil erosion through wind and rain, and run-off of fertilizers and chemicals into lakes, streams, etc. So conventional tillage was born, leaving more dead plant residue on top to protect the soil more. Problem with that is, makes a nice cozy home and work-place for weeds, insects, and diseases. We then got an extensive list of products to use to fight them, and all was quiet for a while. Eventually no-till showed up and that was even worse yet, literally no soil disturbance whatsoever, which means not pretty much all chemical control and basically no mechanical control. Most farmers used atrazine, and when weeds escaped, well, you just put on more atrazine, which really wasn't good and guys no doubt got carried away went above and beyond what the labels allowed you to use legally. So to lighten the use of atrazine, roundup ready was brought to the table. This'll be perfect right? No residual control, just contact. Less residual's needed meaning nothing harmful to the ground water, and the big thing was at the time not a damn thing roundup wouldn't kill (somewhat debatable yes). About the same time or slightly before hand the plant is now bred to fight off soil borne diseases and insects, so no more soil insecticides need to be used. Damn now what will the tree huggers go after they should be happy as a lark now, right? Wrong. Fast forward 15-20 years, and all of a sudden roundup won't kill certain weeds which are detrimental to certain crop's yeild. Diseases and especially insects are now altering their behavior and becoming immune to certain bio-chemistry that the plant was designed to fight off, so now we're back to square one on that deal too and need to add some of those age old insecticides again. Right now we're in the cover crop stage of life, trying to find ways to curb against the total use of all this technology. Maybe not eliminate all together, but deffinately cut back. Problem is we'll cut back, but it will still be too much for this liberal tree-hugging world we live in to accept. So I ask, when is enough enough? Remember, the federal gov't not only needs to know the cost of food, but they need cheap food it's people. The more the crop, the cheaper the end product, which is food. You corporate hack you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, racinfarmer said: You corporate hack you! how so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 20 minutes ago, hayward said: how so? I'm just trying to think of all the crap I've seen come across FB lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 36 minutes ago, racinfarmer said: I'm just trying to think of all the crap I've seen come across FB lately. I can just imagine. Never did facebook, but I hear stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, hayward said: I can just imagine. Never did facebook, but I hear stories. They all end in Monsanto, RoundUp, and corporate mega-farms, no matter the ag topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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