Snake Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 You could be on a secret government database or watch list for simply taking a picture on an airplane. Some federal air marshals say they're reporting your actions to meet a quota, even though some top officials deny it. The air marshals, whose identities are being concealed, told 7NEWS that they're required to submit at least one report a month. If they don't, there's no raise, no bonus, no awards and no special assignments. "Innocent passengers are being entered into an international intelligence database as suspicious persons, acting in a suspicious manner on an aircraft ... and they did nothing wrong," said one federal air marshal. These unknowing passengers who are doing nothing wrong are landing in a secret government document called a Surveillance Detection Report, or SDR. Air marshals told 7NEWS that managers in Las Vegas created and continue to maintain this potentially dangerous quota system. "Do these reports have real life impacts on the people who are identified as potential terrorists?" 7NEWS Investigator Tony Kovaleski asked. "Absolutely," a federal air marshal replied. 7NEWS obtained an internal Homeland Security document defining an SDR as a report designed to identify terrorist surveillance activity. "When you see a decision like this, for these reports, who loses here?" Kovaleski asked. "The people we're supposed to protect -- the American public," an air marshal said. What kind of impact would it have for a flying individual to be named in an SDR? "That could have serious impact ... They could be placed on a watch list. They could wind up on databases that identify them as potential terrorists or a threat to an aircraft. It could be very serious," said Don Strange, a former agent in charge of air marshals in Atlanta. He lost his job attempting to change policies inside the agency. That's why several air marshals object to a July 2004 memo from top management in the Las Vegas office, a memo that reminded air marshals of the SDR requirement. The body of the memo said, "Each federal air marshal is now expected to generate at least one SDR per month." "Does that memo read to you that Federal Air Marshal headquarters has set a quota on these reports?" Kovaleski asked. "Absolutely, no doubt," an air marshal replied. A second management memo, also dated July 2004, said, "There may come an occasion when you just don't see anything out of the ordinary for a month at a time, but I'm sure that if you are looking for it, you'll see something." Another federal air marshal said that not only is there a quota in Las Vegas for SDRs, but that "it directly reflects on (their) performance evaluations" and on how much money they make. The director of the Air Marshal Service, Dana Brown, declined 7NEWS' request for an interview on the quota system. But the agency points to a memo from August 2004 that said there is not a quota for submitting SDRs and which goes on to say, "I do not expect reports that are inaccurate or frivolous." But, Las Vegas-based air marshals say the quota system remains in force, now more than two years after managers sent the original memos, and that it's a mandate from management that impacts annual raises, bonuses, awards and special assignments. "To meet this quota, to get their raises, do you think federal air marshals in Las Vegas are making some of this stuff up?" Kovaleski asked. "I know they are. It's a joke," an air marshal replied. "Have marshals in the Las Vegas office, I don't want to say fabricated, but 'created' reports?" Kovaleski asked. "Creative writing -- stretching a long ways the truth, yes," an air marshal replied. One example, according to air marshals, occurred on one flight leaving Las Vegas, when an unknowing passenger, most likely a tourist, was identified in an SDR for doing nothing more than taking a photo of the Las Vegas skyline as his plane rolled down the runway. "You're saying that was not an accurate portrayal of a potential terrorist activity?" Kovaleski asked. "No, it was not," an air marshal said. "It was a marshal trying to meet a quota ..." Kovaleski said. "Yes, he was," the air marshal replied. Strange said he didn't have a quota in the Atlanta office when he was in charge. "I would never have done that ... You are going to have people reporting every suspicious looking activity they come across, whether they in their heart feel like it's a threat, just to meet the quota," Strange said. Strange and other air marshals said the quota allows the government to fill a database with bad information. A Las Vegas air marshal said he didn't write an SDR every month for exactly that reason. "Well, it's intelligence information, and like any system, if you put garbage in, you get garbage out," the air marshal said. "I would like to see an investigation -- a real investigation conducted into the ways things are done here," the air marshal in Las Vegas said. Although the agency strongly denies any presence of a quota system, Las Vegas-based air marshals have produced documents that show their performance review is directly linked to producing SDRs http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/marshals-innocent-people-placed-on-watch-list-to-meet-quota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted June 23, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 23, 2016 Nothing to see here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Kivalo Posted June 23, 2016 Gold Member Share Posted June 23, 2016 If it saves just one child, its all worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 why care about terrorists anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Storm Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Don't take pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Mainecat said: why care about terrorists anymore? Any comments on the subject matter Abe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted June 23, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, SSFB said: Any comments on the subject matter Abe? You? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 This is the fallacy of the no fly no buy bullshit and any person who isnt a complete fucking moron knows it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 15 minutes ago, SnowRider said: You? The subject matter only reaffirms my belief that preventing people from owning firearms based on a no fly list is absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Storm Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 23 minutes ago, SSFB said: The subject matter only reaffirms my belief that preventing people from owning firearms based on a no fly list is absurd. So if Omar had been on a no-fly list and then could not have bought the guns that he killed with...that would not have been a good thing? Or are just going to say he could have bought black market guns anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Capt.Storm said: So if Omar had been on a no-fly list and then could not have bought the guns that he killed with...that would not have been a good thing? Or are just going to say he could have bought black market guns anyhow. Sure, but the world isn't a bubble where that's the only result of something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Storm Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, SSFB said: Sure, but the world isn't a bubble where that's the only result of something like this. I think it's the main Idea my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted June 24, 2016 Gold Member Share Posted June 24, 2016 Why not arrest people that are guilty enough of something to be on some sort of watch list? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 hour ago, BOHICA said: Why not arrest people that are guilty enough of something to be on some sort of watch list? Because being arrested requires more evidence than being on the watch list, which requires no evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momorider Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, SSFB said: Because being arrested requires more evidence than being on the watch list, which requires no evidence. Not really, you can be arrested under false pretences from a single person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, Momorider said: Not really, you can be arrested under false pretences from a single person And you can fight that in court. Not nearly the same with a secret list that gets added onto by some guy and has no good method for getting off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momorider Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 minute ago, SSFB said: And you can fight that in court. Not nearly the same with a secret list that gets added onto by some guy and has no good method for getting off it. Ya the no recourse aspect is fucked up that should be changed would solve this problem quickly, there was a 5 year old boy from Montreal on the list the family didn't know till they tried to fly to Disney World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 If you don't have anything to hide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momorider Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Guess he was from TO http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/markham-security-travel-watchlist-1.3387890 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momorider Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Editing posts seems fucked up SSFB won't let me save edit, I tried to ad that second part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted June 24, 2016 Gold Member Share Posted June 24, 2016 28 minutes ago, SSFB said: Because being arrested requires more evidence than being on the watch list, which requires no evidence. If being on a watch list is enough excuse to lose rights and priveledges then a person needs to be charged and allowed their day to be judged by a jury of your peers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Storm Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 11 minutes ago, BOHICA said: If being on a watch list is enough excuse to lose rights and priveledges then a person needs to be charged and allowed their day to be judged by a jury of your peers. I would agree with you except the damn list is unconstitutional to begin with...that's what you have to understand and be pissed about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Wow obama is a mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momorider Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 23 minutes ago, Sludgey said: Wow obama is a mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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