Is western media making the situation worse?

[Rod]

[Anler]

1 hour ago, spin_dry said:

Vlad is pissed because he lost the popularity contest. He refused to modernize and join the rest of the free world following the collapse of the Soviet Union. This is all on him and the gangster government he and the oligarchs created. Fuck them. 

How is his govt so different from ours? 

[Anler]

1 hour ago, Mainecat said:

Kill yourself more.

See you stole that from Ben

[spin_dry]

Just now, Anler said:

How is his govt so different from ours? 

While not perfect, our three branches of government do represent a step forward. I would rather live here.  

[Anler]

Just now, spin_dry said:

While not perfect, our three branches of government do represent a step forward. I would rather live here.  

For sure but they dont answer to us. How many of us want a war with Russia? I'd say none. So what have we done to avoid that? Nothing. In fact we instigated it. And when I say "we" I mean at least two of those branches of govt. 

[Carlos Danger]

3 minutes ago, Anler said:

Listen to the old man

 

I have seen a few versions of this dialogue with Chomsky talking about Russia and NATO and let me start by saying Noam can go take a long walk off of a short Pier. First the USSR lost the cold war and if history serves losers never seem to be able to write the rules. I would add that Putin's presence ( as a former KGB officer) and his acts of aggression have led a few of the states in question to see NATO as a viable option. 

[Anler]

1 minute ago, Carlos Danger said:

I have seen a few versions of this dialogue with Chomsky talking about Russia and NATO and let me start by saying Noam can go take a long walk off of a short Pier. First the USSR lost the cold war and if history serves losers never seem to be able to write the rules. I would add that Putin's presence ( as a former KGB officer) and his acts of aggression have led a few of the states in question to see NATO as a viable option. 

So weaponizing all of the countries surrounding Russia isnt aggression? You are shooting the messenger

[spin_dry]

Just now, Anler said:

For sure but they dont answer to us. How many of us want a war with Russia? I'd say none. So what have we done to avoid that? Nothing. In fact we instigated it. And when I say "we" I mean at least two of those branches of govt. 

What government in the world does answer to the people? I don’t know of any. Vlad wanted two things. Disarmament of the Ukraine and to dictate who gets to join. Unfortunately for Vlad, life doesn’t work that way. He doesn’t always get his way. 

[Rod]

5 minutes ago, Anler said:

So weaponizing all of the countries surrounding Russia isnt aggression? You are shooting the messenger

Howd the US like it when the Soviet Union was doing it to the US in Cuba?

[Anler]

3 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

What government in the world does answer to the people? I don’t know of any. Vlad wanted two things. Disarmament of the Ukraine and to dictate who gets to join. Unfortunately for Vlad, life doesn’t work that way. He doesn’t always get his way. 

Well if that is the case then I'd say your argument is void. We are "supposed" to be a representative govt. You know "We The People". We have shed enough money and blood on lies perpetrated by these people who dont represent us, who the fuck are you to condemn others for the same? 

[spin_dry]

Just now, ACE said:

Howd the US like it when the Soviet Union was doing it to the US in Cuba?

You mean covertly installing nuclear weapons and then lying about it? Not very much. 

[Carlos Danger]

5 minutes ago, Anler said:

So weaponizing all of the countries surrounding Russia isnt aggression? You are shooting the messenger

The soviet union weaponized the countries you speak of like for instance Poland.  Should Putin have a say in the day to day operations of Poland because a fallen state that he used to work for once held control over them? The iron curtain was the luxury of the Soviet Union not Russia.

[Carlos Danger]

5 minutes ago, ACE said:

Howd the US like it when the Soviet Union was doing it to the US in Cuba?

That was a battle of the Cold war and a Battle the USSR lost.  Mind you we did pull missiles out of Turkey. 

[SkisNH]

4 hours ago, Jimmy Snacks said:

Apparently Russian TV is showing the military as humanitarians handing out aid to the Ukrainians…the fact that anybody here is siding with Putin is fucked up IMO.

Who is siding with Putin?

[spin_dry]

1 minute ago, Anler said:

Well if that is the case then I'd say your argument is void. We are "supposed" to be a representative govt. You know "We The People". We have shed enough money and blood on lies perpetrated by these people who dont represent us, who the fuck are you to condemn others for the same? 

There are no countries where the government is for the people. There never will be. Because it’s impossible to please everyone. A group gets to protest and even break shit here without disappearing. We have the right to uprising and public protest. Russia, not so much. There in lies the main difference. Protests here have ended unpopular wars. 

[Anler]

Just now, Carlos Danger said:

The soviet union weaponized the countries you speak of like for instance Poland.  Should Putin have a say in the day to day operations of Poland because a fallen state that he used to work for once held control over them? The iron curtain was the luxury of the Soviet Union not Russia.

Agreed but after the fall of the Soviet union the Russians agreed to let German join NATO under the premise that there was no other eastern expansion. So when that turns out to be a lie and then we do it what should the response be? Like others have said, what if the Russian put nukes in Mexico? No biggie? As a leader of a country you can not just ignore that. 

If all of those eastern countries had not joined NATO and were allowed to be their own democracies then there is justification for outrage over aggression by the Russians. But you put nukes on their door step and you kind of tip your hand to your real intentions. This could all have easily been avoided with some reasonable dipolomacy. And lets not forget that the most aggressive occupying force in the world is... US. 

 

[Anler]

4 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

There are no countries where the government is for the people. There never will be. Because it’s impossible to please everyone. A group gets to protest and even break shit here without disappearing. We have the right to uprising and public protest. Russia, not so much. There in lies the main difference. Protests here have ended unpopular wars. 

Not our circus, not our monkeys. Russians can fight for their own freedom and I dont concede any of my constitutional rights because nowhere in the rest of the world has that. We fought for that. Every war this country has fought in the last 100 years has been over a lie. So lets not blow the world up over this lie, eh?

[Carlos Danger]

2 minutes ago, Anler said:

Agreed but after the fall of the Soviet union the Russians agreed to let German join NATO under the premise that there was no other eastern expansion. So when that turns out to be a lie and then we do it what should the response be? Like others have said, what if the Russian put nukes in Mexico? No biggie? As a leader of a country you can not just ignore that. 

If all of those eastern countries had not joined NATO and were allowed to be their own democracies then there is justification for outrage over aggression by the Russians. But you put nukes on their door step and you kind of tip your hand to your real intentions. This could all have easily been avoided with some reasonable dipolomacy. And lets not forget that the most aggressive occupying force in the world is... US. 

 

I would add that the US being involved in a coup in Ukraine in 2014 was bad optics and bad policy on the part of the US.  Russia has nukes yes but so does the US and unlike the Russians have maintained there nuclear stock pile quite well in the 30 plus years since the demise of the USSR.  Let's be clear the US always has Nuclear submarines on the ready in proximity to Russia no permission required from any state. Again how much power should the current Russia hold? they are a poor country with a weak economy that really only has the one item to sell on the world market.

[Jimmy Snacks]

12 minutes ago, SkisNH said:

Who is siding with Putin?

Are you reading the same posts as me....if so read them again.

[spin_dry]

3 minutes ago, Anler said:

Not our circus, not our monkeys. Russians can fight for their own freedom and I dont concede any of my constitutional rights because nowhere in the rest of the world has that. We fought for that. Every war this country has fought in the last 100 years has been over a lie. So lets not blow the world up over this lie, eh?

You asking about the differences. Our ability to organize and protest is protected. Not in Russia. I find that to be huge in the context of power to the people. The use of nuclear weapons is inevitable. It’s only a matter of when and who starts it. The world is a pretty fucking small place these days. 

[Anler]

Just now, Carlos Danger said:

I would add that the US being involved in a coup in Ukraine in 2014 was bad optics and bad policy on the part of the US.  Russia has nukes yes but so does the US and unlike the Russians have maintained there nuclear stock pile quite well in the 30 plus years since the demise of the USSR.  Let's be clear the US always has Nuclear submarines on the ready in proximity to Russia no permission required from any state. Again how much power should the current Russia hold? they are a poor country with a weak economy that really only has the one item to sell on the world market.

I dont think it is yours or anyone elses decision to decide what another country should do. Nobody wants a nuclear war because nobody wins that

[Carlos Danger]

7 minutes ago, Anler said:

Not our circus, not our monkeys. Russians can fight for their own freedom and I dont concede any of my constitutional rights because nowhere in the rest of the world has that. We fought for that. Every war this country has fought in the last 100 years has been over a lie. So lets not blow the world up over this lie, eh?

I think the truth will end this one way or another.

 

[spin_dry]

Just now, Anler said:

I dont think it is yours or anyone elses decision to decide what another country should do. Nobody wants a nuclear war because nobody wins that

Exactly. If the Ukraine wants to join NATO they ought to be allowed to. 

[Anler]

Just now, spin_dry said:

You asking about the differences. Our ability to organize and protest is protected. Not in Russia. I find that to be huge in the context of power to the people. The use of nuclear weapons is inevitable. It’s only a matter of when and who starts it. The world is a pretty fucking small place these days. 

We are going to be at war with Russia one way or the other I have no doubt about that. And its a shame. 

[Anler]

1 minute ago, spin_dry said:

Exactly. If the Ukraine wants to join NATO they ought to be allowed to. 

Knowing that is how they got where they are, sure. I am willing to bet the people of Ukraine would prefer others dont decide their destiny for them. They arent going to get that choice now and you can thank NATO for that!