SSFB Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Quote The political right needs more self-analysis and less whataboutism. One of the modern conservative movement's greatest leaders, the late William F. Buckley Jr., retold a fascinating story from the run-up to the 1964 presidential election. As he explained in The Wall Street Journal in 2008, Buckley and his allies convinced Barry Goldwater to distance himself from the John Birch Society—a conspiracy-minded group that touted his candidacy. Buckley noted that the society's president, Robert Welch, had at the time a "near-hypnotic" influence on the Right, despite his "wild" ideas: "(Welch) said Dwight D. Eisenhower was a 'dedicated, conscious agent of the communist conspiracy,' and that the government of the United States was 'under operational control of the Communist Party.'" Buckley realized that Welch's fixations did a disservice to the anti-communist cause. So he convinced Goldwater to reject the core fallacy—"the assumption that you can infer subjective intention from objective consequence: we lost China to the communists, therefore the president of the United States and the secretary of state wished China to go to the communists." Goldwater, of course, gained the GOP nomination and lost the general-election vote by 23 percentage points. Thanks to Buckley's efforts, however, the GOP vanquished various fringe groups. The Goldwater candidacy built the foundation for the GOP's future and set the stage for a movement that helped topple the Evil Empire. Sometimes, losing is better than winning. In recent years, conspiracy-mongers and kooks have gained a similar foothold in the GOP. It's a huge problem on the Left, but as a non-leftist that's not my battle. My goal is to support a functioning right-of-center movement that has the credibility to thwart the utopian dreams of the progressive movement. At this time, the Right needs more self-analysis and less whataboutism. The explanations are complex and subject to debate, but it's impossible to ignore that a portion of the Right has descended, quite frankly, into madness. I partly blame a president who has advocated "birtherism" and given a pass to supporters of QAnon, who embrace some inchoate theory involving Satan, politicians, and pedophiles. Trump will soon exit the White House unless he chains himself to his desk. But the conservative movement will need to chart a path forward—and decide whether it is primarily about airing a list of Festivus-like grievances, or whether it is tethered to important and mostly good ideas centered on promoting markets and limited government. So far, the prognosis isn't good. My view is that if Trump had actually won the election, he would have been able to prove systemic voter fraud in one of the 58 lawsuits that his supporters have lost. I believe in the rule of law, and the legal system has rendered its verdict. It's crazy to go deeper into this rabbit hole, yet the conservative movement has yet to find bottom. Nothing has been as loopy as the Jericho March, where religious supporters of the president gathered in Washington, D.C., last week to hold a prayer rally to protest the election results. Prominent conservative activists spoke, along with Alex Jones, the radio broadcaster who, among other things, once claimed that the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings were a hoax. Buckley must have turned over in his grave. As penance, Christian writer Rod Dreher watched the entire march—named after the biblical story of how the Israelites marched around Jericho blowing shofars until the city's walls collapsed. (Unless the media hid it, I'm pretty sure the Capitol is still standing.) As Dreher noted, speakers insisted that the election was stolen—as "an article of faith…If you doubt, you are a traitor, a coward, in league with the Devil. I'm not exaggerating at all." Such, er, uncritical thinking is no longer confined to the outer reaches but has entered the conservative mainstream. "I am willing to die for this fight," a "Stop the Steal" activist tweeted. Nonsense flows freely on social media, but the Arizona Republican Party actually retweeted it with the words: "He is. Are you?" (Uh, no, but thanks for asking.) A Virginia state senator posted that "President Trump should declare martial law as recommended by General Flynn." Former Gen. Michael Flynn, who spoke at the Jericho fiasco, retweeted a post from a group calling for Trump to "temporarily suspend the Constitution" and call for a revote. Conservatives say that ideas have consequences, yet only a few have spoken out against those who peddle flagrantly authoritarian ideas. The Cato Institute's David Boaz last year wrote about the "no enemies on the Left" approach that liberals had long taken, as they refused to drive out socialists and communists. Pointing to Buckley's legacy, Boaz called for modern conservatives to eschew a similar "no enemies on the Right" stance and stay far from "fever swamps." That's good advice. Conservatives might not agree on policies in a post-Trump world, but they should agree that some Buckley-style limits are critical for the movement's future. This column was first published in The Orange County Register. https://reason.com/2020/12/25/can-conservatives-stop-their-movements-descent-into-madness/?fbclid=IwAR1-xwezqQhDDEy5dLGEu89F8wxs1O3bI7vsBvekntwvJtnWkemp9ZOsusE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Start a war over your ideals (or the preservation of them) or just shut the fuck up. Same goes for the other side. Anybody that puts an elected politician as the face of their movement is a fucking retard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, SSFB said: https://reason.com/2020/12/25/can-conservatives-stop-their-movements-descent-into-madness/?fbclid=IwAR1-xwezqQhDDEy5dLGEu89F8wxs1O3bI7vsBvekntwvJtnWkemp9ZOsusE The craziness of trump has left no actual defense for republicans except whataboutisms. It’s here everyday in these pages. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 "The way Republicans should be is more like liberal democrats." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 There are no conservatives. Trump destroyed what little was left of their partisan ideals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Just now, f7ben said: There are no conservatives. Trump destroyed what little was left of their partisan ideals there are a couple of fiscal conservatives out there but it's been 20 years since they really mattered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchy Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, SSFB said: https://reason.com/2020/12/25/can-conservatives-stop-their-movements-descent-into-madness/?fbclid=IwAR1-xwezqQhDDEy5dLGEu89F8wxs1O3bI7vsBvekntwvJtnWkemp9ZOsusE good article. A-grade comedy watching the 'conservatives' here explain themselves from under a snake charmer's spell. Edited December 28, 2020 by frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 37 minutes ago, Highmark said: "The way Republicans should be is more like liberal democrats." That's what you got out of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SSFB said: That's what you got out of that? I didn't bother reading it but its what we hear all the time on the MSM anyway. Edited December 28, 2020 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, SSFB said: That's what you got out of that? Just now, Highmark said: I didn't bother watching it but its what we hear all the time on the MSM anyway. What an idiot. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Highmark said: I didn't bother reading it but its what we hear all the time on the MSM anyway. Not surprised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 @Highmark 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, Highmark said: I didn't bother reading it but its what we hear all the time on the MSM anyway. Gee, thanks for your analysis of something you didn't read. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 As Crazy Joe takes to the podium and says hold my beer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchy Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said: As Crazy Joe takes to the podium and says hold my beer. oh look, more whataboutism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, frenchy said: oh look, more whataboutism. Look at his Avi - when was the last time Anthony Wiener was relevant? Told him he should update it to John Barron https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonyms_of_Donald_Trump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Highmark said: "The way Republicans should be is more like liberal democrats." Obviously you didn’t open the link and have retrograded to talking out your ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, frenchy said: oh look, more whataboutism. It’s the new Covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Rigid1 Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, SnowRider said: Look at his Avi - when was the last time Anthony Wiener was relevant? Told him he should update it to John Barron https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonyms_of_Donald_Trump When the NYC pd found Hillary's classified emails on his kiddy porn lap top.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Rigid1 said: When the NYC pd found Hillary's classified emails on his kiddy porn lap top.. You’re a racer level intellect.....completely missed the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Rigid1 Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 Just now, SnowRider said: You’re a racer level intellect.....completely missed the point Not really, you asked when the last time he was relevant, so I responded.. FYI, That's how these forums work,..people ask questions or make statements and people answer or respond..That is the point of this forum correct?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 58 minutes ago, SSFB said: Gee, thanks for your analysis of something you didn't read. Like it's never been done here before. I read it now and there isn't anything great about the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said: Obviously you didn’t open the link and have retrograded to talking out your ass. I'm the only person who makes assumptions on links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted December 28, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) This place is amusing as ever. Edited December 28, 2020 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Highmark said: Like it's never been done here before. I read it now and there isn't anything great about the article. Just now, Highmark said: I'm the only person who makes assumptions on links. and it's stupid and gets called out when other people do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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