Justin Trudeau is Doing a Great Job

[02sled]

24 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

What we have is just another Private company raping the taxpayer for millions, IBM should be ashamed of itself.  There should be a total backlash against the company until its fixed.  

Sooner or later you have to upgrade in this day and age, pretty sure the old system was terminated for a reason.

So now Oracle is going to have a crack at fixing the issues, if this fails they might just go with a system that already works   

 

 

Check the chronology of the system. The government of the day were / are the decision makers. Government decided

https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/phoenix-payroll-system-timeline-of-the-governments-problems/396407

March 2014

The Government takes over responsibility for Phoenix design and execution from IBM, allegedly because it wanted to adopt a ‘train the trainer’ approach rather than follow IBM’s recommended system.

That decision was made by government employees managing the project.

May 2015

IBM recommends delaying the planned rollout of the Phoenix system, which was due to start at the end of that year due to critical problems with the system.

January 2016

Documents show that senior officials knew in January about a flaw in Phoenix that allowed widespread access to employees’ personnel records. Up to 70,000 public servants had access to the personal details of 300,000 employees. Information about the flaw was purged from a Privacy Impact Assessment document, although the flaw persisted until at least April.

Another government employee decision.

February 2016

The Canadian government lays off approximately 2,700 payroll clerks as it takes the Phoenix payroll system live across 34 government departments, serving 120,000 people. This is the first in a two-part rollout.

This was under Trudopes watch that government employees decided to go live although they chose not to follow IBM's recommendations and knew of problems with the systems. You want to bet that the decision makers had personal bonuses riding on getting the implementation live by a specific date.

Just one big screw up that can be directly blamed on Government employees. They should have stayed with IBM doing the planning and execution rather than thinking they knew better. They shouldn't have gone forward with the implementation knowing there were problems and they should have backed out of the implementation when it failed rather than "we can fix it while it's live".

The project started with Harper but went live under Trudope and should never have gone live the way it was.

[ArcticCrusher]

45 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

What we have is just another Private company raping the taxpayer for millions, IBM should be ashamed of itself.  There should be a total backlash against the company until its fixed.  

Sooner or later you have to upgrade in this day and age, pretty sure the old system was terminated for a reason.

So now Oracle is going to have a crack at fixing the issues, if this fails they might just go with a system that already works   

 

 

What we have is a team at the government that was in way over their heads and likely didn't have the experience or desire to manage the project.  

[1trailmaker]

14 minutes ago, 02sled said:

Check the chronology of the system. The government of the day were / are the decision makers. Government decided

https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/phoenix-payroll-system-timeline-of-the-governments-problems/396407

March 2014

The Government takes over responsibility for Phoenix design and execution from IBM, allegedly because it wanted to adopt a ‘train the trainer’ approach rather than follow IBM’s recommended system.

That decision was made by government employees managing the project.

May 2015

IBM recommends delaying the planned rollout of the Phoenix system, which was due to start at the end of that year due to critical problems with the system.

January 2016

Documents show that senior officials knew in January about a flaw in Phoenix that allowed widespread access to employees’ personnel records. Up to 70,000 public servants had access to the personal details of 300,000 employees. Information about the flaw was purged from a Privacy Impact Assessment document, although the flaw persisted until at least April.

Another government employee decision.

February 2016

The Canadian government lays off approximately 2,700 payroll clerks as it takes the Phoenix payroll system live across 34 government departments, serving 120,000 people. This is the first in a two-part rollout.

This was under Trudopes watch that government employees decided to go live although they chose not to follow IBM's recommendations and knew of problems with the systems. You want to bet that the decision makers had personal bonuses riding on getting the implementation live by a specific date.

Just one big screw up that can be directly blamed on Government employees. They should have stayed with IBM doing the planning and execution rather than thinking they knew better. They shouldn't have gone forward with the implementation knowing there were problems and they should have backed out of the implementation when it failed rather than "we can fix it while it's live".

The project started with Harper but went live under Trudope and should never have gone live the way it was.

 I know what happened, IBM took money its that simple

Stop protecting them, they don't give a shit about you

 

I saw first hand the bringing in of SAP,  tailored for our system - fucking disaster

2 year project was extending 4 years - thankfully most of our regular pays were not affected, B list employees and overtime did take a beating though....

lots a back patting

 

 

 

[1trailmaker]

13 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

What we have is a team at the government that was in way over their heads and likely didn't have the experience or desire to manage the project.  

That would be a good assumption

Still doesn't excuse IBM

[ArcticCrusher]

10 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

That would be a good assumption

Still doesn't excuse IBM

Not excusing IBM at all and really not surprised.  Don't expect much better from Oracle.

Seen numerous times first hand at the massive failures of the software manu's.  Leave it to the specialized SI's.

[02sled]

5 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

 I know what happened, IBM took money its that simple

Stop protecting them, they don't give a shit about you

 

I saw first hand the bringing in of SAP,  tailored for our system - fucking disaster

2 year project was extending 4 years - thankfully most of our regular pays were not affected, B list employees and overtime did take a beating though....

lots a back patting

 

 

 

You truly are insane. IBM was contracted to provide and implement a payroll system. The government employees chose not to follow the plan and recommendations OF THE EXPERTS.

More Fail not knowing what he is talking about, but what else is new. You haven't the slightest idea what SAP even is. SAP provides countless solutions to countless organizations and you make it sound like one program or system.

Back patting on behalf of the government employees working on the project right.

It comes down to the abilities and expertise of the people planning and executing the implementation. I guarantee you those at IBM are far better at it than those federal government employees who thought they knew better.

Large systems like that are very complex. They need careful planning, testing and implementation by the people with the proper expertise, not the I think I cans of the world. It has to be the I know I cans of the world.

Peoplesoft HR is a very complex system. I saw one organization implement it flawlessly with the expert help of their contracted provider. I saw another Fail miserably, back out and eventually give up because they thought they could do it in house. Kind of like the federal government did with the payroll system when their employees went against the recommendations of the experts.

Quit trying to defend your federal government buddies for screwing this royally. You want to bet they collected bonuses for this fiasco.

[1trailmaker]

2 minutes ago, 02sled said:

You truly are insane. IBM was contracted to provide and implement a payroll system. The government employees chose not to follow the plan and recommendations OF THE EXPERTS.

More Fail not knowing what he is talking about, but what else is new. You haven't the slightest idea what SAP even is. SAP provides countless solutions to countless organizations and you make it sound like one program or system.

Back patting on behalf of the government employees working on the project right.

It comes down to the abilities and expertise of the people planning and executing the implementation. I guarantee you those at IBM are far better at it than those federal government employees who thought they knew better.

Large systems like that are very complex. They need careful planning, testing and implementation by the people with the proper expertise, not the I think I cans of the world. It has to be the I know I cans of the world.

Peoplesoft HR is a very complex system. I saw one organization implement it flawlessly with the expert help of their contracted provider. I saw another Fail miserably, back out and eventually give up because they thought they could do it in house. Kind of like the federal government did with the payroll system when their employees went against the recommendations of the experts.

Quit trying to defend your federal government buddies for screwing this royally. You want to bet they collected bonuses for this fiasco.

you know what is funny?  the IT know it all's are people just like you.  come to think about it,  you would fit right in with the back patting pack...

Yes there is bad Mangers everywhere (and good ones) in all business - stop kidding yourself

[02sled]

20 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

you know what is funny?  the IT know it all's are people just like you.  come to think about it,  you would fit right in with the back patting pack...

Yes there is bad Mangers everywhere (and good ones) in all business - stop kidding yourself

Sorry to say but you are STILL WRONG AGAIN FAIL. I know my areas of expertise and know my limits. The reality of IT is that a jack of all trades is truly a master of none. The disciplines are so diverse that everyone needs to specialize and become experts in their own discipline. Everyone who is an expert in one is also interdependent on the other experts to make a project happen. An example. While I am fairly well versed in network security I am far from an expert. When needed I would reach out to our network security experts who do nothing but that all day every day.

When all the experts come together and manage a successful project as a team, they deserve a job well done. When we had a success worth celebrating it was my team that got the recognition not me. When a couple of generalists think they know better than the experts, ignore the recommendations and flop, they should be fired.

In this case the bad project managers made bad decisions for the federal government.

[ArcticCrusher]

2 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

you know what is funny?  the IT know it all's are people just like you.  come to think about it,  you would fit right in with the back patting pack...

Yes there is bad Mangers everywhere (and good ones) in all business - stop kidding yourself

So how many mock golives and shadow testing attempts did they perform before flipping the switch?

Sorry but this falls mainly on the team who was managing this.  Nothing to do with politics at all.

[02sled]

42 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

So how many mock golives and shadow testing attempts did they perform before flipping the switch?

Sorry but this falls mainly on the team who was managing this.  Nothing to do with politics at all.

Exactly and the team managing it were the government IT project managers which ignored IBM recommendations and went their own course implementing it knowing it was flawed. Like I said, I would put money on it they made a decision based on we get a huge bonus if we implement by X day whether it is working or not.

Typically they should be doing testing in a development environment and when that looks good take it to acceptance testing which simulates a production environment as close to the real thing as possible and then they should be going to a change meeting for sign off by all the IT disciplines that they are satisfied with the testing. I have never seen an implementation plan get passed at a change meeting without a documented back out plan.

But that is business and this is government.

[ArcticCrusher]

58 minutes ago, 02sled said:

Exactly and the team managing it were the government IT project managers which ignored IBM recommendations and went their own course implementing it knowing it was flawed. Like I said, I would put money on it they made a decision based on we get a huge bonus if we implement by X day whether it is working or not.

Typically they should be doing testing in a development environment and when that looks good take it to acceptance testing which simulates a production environment as close to the real thing as possible and then they should be going to a change meeting for sign off by all the IT disciplines that they are satisfied with the testing. I have never seen an implementation plan get passed at a change meeting without a documented back out plan.

But that is business and this is government.

I am sure IBM isn't exactly clean in all this either.

You are bang on on the bold.  

[revrnd]

OLG considers novelty betting:

http://www.saultstar.com/2017/11/25/olg-looks-at-novelty-betting

Quote

Think you know when U.S. President Donald Trump will be impeached? How about who the next James Bond will be? Or perhaps you have an inside track on the name of the next royal baby?

Justin cried when he found out Gord Downie & when he apologized for the residential schools in Newfoundland & Labrador. I wonder what the odds are that he'll cry when he apologizes for how members of the LGBT community were fired by the military & civil service.? 

[revrnd]

And then you have this:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/11/26/gender-chapters-in-trade-deals-could-become-standard-canadians-argue-in-nafta-negotiations.html

I'm so happy Canada is @ the forefront of this, NOT! Where the fuck do the idiots think this will be good for the agreement? We'll be lucky if NAFTA survives in its current state w/o adding this nonsense.

Let someone else save the planet.

 

[revrnd]

I saw this during the Sunday Scrum:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/anthony-german-trudeau-apology-analysis-1.4418385

Quote

In 1984, during his last day in Parliament, then-Opposition leader Brian Mulroney grilled the Liberal PM over his refusal to offer an apology to Japanese Canadians who were interned during the Second World War.

In the 1940s, authorities arrested thousands of people and forced them to relocate; they lost their freedom and valuable property, especially in British Columbia.

• 75th anniversary of Japanese-Canadian internment camps echoes as fears of Islamophobia rise

Trudeau told Mulroney, "I do not think the purpose of a government is to right the past. It cannot rewrite history. It is our purpose to be just in our time."

So the gov't gives everyone some cash & then what happens? I'll let you guys answer that.

On the embedded link, are people suggesting we build camps for Muslims?

All this apologizing and settlements reminds me of this:

Quote

You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if I gave you some cash

(From Don Henley)

[ArcticCrusher]

2 hours ago, revrnd said:

And then you have this:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/11/26/gender-chapters-in-trade-deals-could-become-standard-canadians-argue-in-nafta-negotiations.html

I'm so happy Canada is @ the forefront of this, NOT! Where the fuck do the idiots think this will be good for the agreement? We'll be lucky if NAFTA survives in its current state w/o adding this nonsense.

Let someone else save the planet.

 

Saw that earlier.  Even the party faithful are saying WTF.

[revrnd]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-5118937/Trudeau-urges-international-community-fight-Libyan-slavery.html

Quote

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Sunday urged the international community to "do more" following reports of the "abhorrent and despicable" enslavement of vulnerable African refugees arriving in Libya.

I wonder what Canada will do to stop this?

[02sled]

10 hours ago, revrnd said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-5118937/Trudeau-urges-international-community-fight-Libyan-slavery.html

I wonder what Canada will do to stop this?

Trudope will throw open the doors and ship in 25,000 of them by the end of January. Of course he will be at the airport to hand out winter coats. Trudope needs to watch this. Nothing wrong with helping people but he needs to realize he can't save the world.

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by 02sled

[04nightfire]

Big pay out to gays and lesbians now

 

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/feds-to-spend-145-million-to-compensate-victims-of-past-lgbtq-discrimination/article37101292/

[toslow]

6 minutes ago, 04nightfire said:

Big pay out to gays and lesbians now

 

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/feds-to-spend-145-million-to-compensate-victims-of-past-lgbtq-discrimination/article37101292/

this fucken POS needs to go 

[ArcticCrusher]

7 minutes ago, 04nightfire said:

Big pay out to gays and lesbians now

 

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/feds-to-spend-145-million-to-compensate-victims-of-past-lgbtq-discrimination/article37101292/

In the comments.

Is he gonna assign a new Minister of Apologies?

Fuck what a retard.

[revrnd]

1 hour ago, ArcticCrusher said:

In the comments.

Is he gonna assign a new Minister of Apologies?

Fuck what a retard.

JT doesn't get a lot of support from those Globe readers. Some great points too.

BTW, when my grandmother & 2 siblings emigrated from England to Bowmanville they were teased by the other kids about their accents (She still said "I sawer him at the store" for "I saw"). Isn't that bullying? Shouldn't my brother & I be able to sue for compensation for the hardships she faced as a child?

Edited November 28, 2017 by revrnd

[02sled]

2 hours ago, 04nightfire said:

Big pay out to gays and lesbians now

 

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/feds-to-spend-145-million-to-compensate-victims-of-past-lgbtq-discrimination/article37101292/

They used to hang horse thieves. Maybe Trudooe should pay the descendants a few $M each for the loss of their ancestors. Trudooe is out of control 

[revrnd]

2 hours ago, 04nightfire said:

Big pay out to gays and lesbians now

 

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/feds-to-spend-145-million-to-compensate-victims-of-past-lgbtq-discrimination/article37101292/

Did he cry?

Quote

Hes got balls. And it probably is no surprise to him of negative backlash. But hes trying to help people. Give him some love man

And then the rebuttal:

Quote

No his problem is that he doesn't.

I don't think his attendance as a backbencher was much better:

Quote

Oh I do love him, I really love him ... of Course in Canada it's illegal to do anything but love someone. Now if only Justin Trudeau would show up in the House of Commons for more than three at the last 14 question periods... I'd love him a lot more! LOL

Doesn't seem much for what they're being compensated for:

Quote

On average, $48,300 for each of the 3,000 people who may qualify.

Sounds like what your insurance would pay if your SUV was written off.

On the same vein if the 50,000,000 being spent on the MMIW was divvied up among the families of the estimated 1200 victims, each family would get almost $42,000.

Edited November 28, 2017 by revrnd

[1trailmaker]

12 minutes ago, 02sled said:

They used to hang horse thieves. Maybe Trudooe should pay the descendants a few $M each for the loss of their ancestors. Trudooe is out of control 

last time I check stealing is illegal - why would their family get any money?  what a dumb ass

[1trailmaker]

57 minutes ago, revrnd said:

JT doesn't get a lot of support from those Globe readers. Some great points too.

BTW, when my grandmother & 2 siblings emigrated from England to Bowmanville they were teased by the other kids about their accents (She still said "I sawer him at the store" for "I saw"). Isn't that bullying? Shouldn't my brother & I be able to sue for compensation for the hardships she faced as a child?

What does that have to do with Police beating gays?  just for starters