Doorider Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 23 hp gain with just a muffler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Just now, Doorider said: 23 hp gain with just a muffler All the more reason to bump up the stock # Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doorider Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Do people actually believe you can get that much power from a muffler? How much did Speedwerks pay them to post that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmo Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 4 minutes ago, Doorider said: Do people actually believe you can get that much power from a muffler? How much did Speedwerks pay them to post that? I'm sure they leave power on the table for sound and EPA reasons. Doesn't the doo 1200 gain 20-25 ponies with an aftermarket exhaust on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 6 minutes ago, Doorider said: Do people actually believe you can get that much power from a muffler? How much did Speedwerks pay them to post that? I am sure they are under ideal lab conditions and your results will vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted October 6, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) 4 strokes have historically left more on the table for exhaust gains than two strokes. This isn't just a snowmobile thing. Since the early to mid 2000's the OEM's have gotten very good at intake and exhaust designs on 2 strokes. The complexity of 2 stroke exhausts is higher than 4 strokes. 4 strokes you can often see gains simply by letting them breath. This can hurt 2 strokes. Edited October 6, 2016 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doorider Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 3 minutes ago, Edmo said: I'm sure they leave power on the table for sound and EPA reasons. Doesn't the doo 1200 gain 20-25 ponies with an aftermarket exhaust on it? No way. Maybe that much with a full exhaust, ecu flash, and 1000 rpm over stock. I never had mine on a dyno, but it runs like a 160 hp sled, but I have all those things done. When I had just a header, I didn't notice one bit of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted October 6, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted October 6, 2016 15 minutes ago, Doorider said: No way. Maybe that much with a full exhaust, ecu flash, and 1000 rpm over stock. I never had mine on a dyno, but it runs like a 160 hp sled, but I have all those things done. When I had just a header, I didn't notice one bit of difference. You are not dealing with a naturally aspirated sled here. You are not understanding the full cause of the gains. Here is the prototype Speedwerx stainless steel muffler version tested with both nonethanol and 9.9% ethanol fuel. The 10+% increase in airflow was combined with stock fuel flow and higher boost pressure to increase HP by 24-25! Too much? Probably, if fuel flow is unaltered. The resulting leaner mixture puts the engine right at max HP A/F ratio at peak HP RPM, with little unburned fuel to vaporize and absorb heat to help cool combustion chambers. Note that the slightly declining top end fuel flow lb/hr results in A/F ratio leaning out as revs climb. Running out of "gear" on top end might allow revs to climb toward the rev limiter (just over 9200) where A/F ratio is a very lean 14.5/1 with ethanol fuel. Every hotrodder's TCat should be fitted with a wideband digital A/F gauge (harping again!). As this is posted, Speedwerx has a Thundercat engine on their SuperFlow engine dyno, and perhaps they’ll add some restriction to the SS muffler to maintain richer A/F ratio at peak revs. As mentioned earlier, when fitted with the higher flowing Speedwerx muffler the boost pressure increased noticeably compared to stock--especially at low revs and high revs. I spoke to Sean Ray about this (now Engine Performance Test Leader on the Ford Racing V6 turbo program at Roush Yates) and we're surmising that the higher exhaust flow is exceeding the standard flow capacity of the wastegate. It's possible that at low revs from clutch engagement to midrange the wastegate controller is programmed to hold the wastegate fixed in a partially open position to cause boost to increase gradually as revs climb--otherwise the tiny ball bearing turbo would be at 10 psi from clutch engagement to max revs (the way most of us would surely like it!). But as we can see in the graphs it looks like the Speedwerx muffler causes boost to climb hard against the partially open wastegate--then when the ECU sees 10+ PSI it dumps to wide open--boost drops at 7000 with wastegate as open as possible. Then boost climbs even with wastegate as open as possible as revs climb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 ^^^ Exactly was waiting for someone to see that they added PSI too. there is your HP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted October 6, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted October 6, 2016 Just now, Wildcat said: ^^^ Exactly was waiting for someone to see that they added PSI too. there is your HP Its fun reading posts of people who don't understand things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doorider Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I didn't notice they added boost. It sounded like they bolted a muffler on and gained 23 hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Just now, Doorider said: I didn't notice they added boost. It sounded like they bolted a muffler on and gained 23 hp. That what they want you to see! really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doorider Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 1 minute ago, Wildcat said: That what they want you to see! really. And the OP who only wrote stated a muffler. If he said muffler and higher boost I would have looked for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted October 6, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Doorider said: I didn't notice they added boost. It sounded like they bolted a muffler on and gained 23 hp. They did, the muffler caused the boost increase. From what I read there was no reprogramming of the ECU. The settings on modern day sleds are not all stagnant. The sensors allow for a certain degree of automatic adjustments. I'm actually surprised there were not some more automatic adjustments made to the A/F ratio. As mentioned earlier, when fitted with the higher flowing Speedwerx muffler the boost pressure increased noticeably compared to stock--especially at low revs and high revs. I spoke to Sean Ray about this (now Engine Performance Test Leader on the Ford Racing V6 turbo program at Roush Yates) and we're surmising that the higher exhaust flow is exceeding the standard flow capacity of the wastegate. Edited October 6, 2016 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokemerc Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 2 hours ago, jtssrx said: The sled made 205 bone fucking stock. Anyone who disputes this is a fucking idiot. Not on evos dyno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Fucking Jtsrx..... Doesnt believe the world is round but believes dynotech numbers lol That is the definition of fucking idiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 4 hours ago, Zambroski said: Whew....I gotta agree. I'm not a go-fast straight liner but this has to make those people happy. I think the big question is whether or not this Yamaha will be able to hold up to the aftermarket mods that the Zuke did. If it can...it's a win. If not....epic fail. I don't know anybody anywhere (internet or real) that bought a Cat turbo and didn't start adding mods right away. Time will tell. Mines stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rw06GT Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 1 hour ago, f7ben said: Not on evos dyno Do you believe Evo's dyno is the last word? You might want to know that with another couple hours of run time their unit picked up nearly 10 hp(new baseline) And another 10 with a muffler change. I could personally care less what the sled makes stock, because it's less than my turbo viper. But it won't stay stock much past the first ride. To the guys that think these sleds are only for straight line racing, you need to pull the trigger on 250 hp on the trail. It really doesn't get much more fun. I never got into the drag stuff other than a friendly rip across a lake on a ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 1 hour ago, Jet said: Mines stock Well, leave it to you to make me stand corrected. So, that ONE I know of that leaves it stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 21 minutes ago, Rw06GT said: Do you believe Evo's dyno is the last word? You might want to know that with another couple hours of run time their unit picked up nearly 10 hp(new baseline) And another 10 with a muffler change. I could personally care less what the sled makes stock, because it's less than my turbo viper. But it won't stay stock much past the first ride. To the guys that think these sleds are only for straight line racing, you need to pull the trigger on 250 hp on the trail. It really doesn't get much more fun. I never got into the drag stuff other than a friendly rip across a lake on a ride. Agreed with all. I dont think they make 205 stock though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtssrx Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 7 hours ago, f7ben said: Not on evos dyno What kind of dyno does he use? Also dynotech is the bench mark for all sleds because he synods everything. So the old cat turbo motor in stock form dynoed at 180 I believe. So this motor if it's not really 205 it dynoed at 25 hp more. Also I wouldn't but it past Yamaha to have detuned the sidewinder. I'll be curious to see how a production sidewinder shows at dynotech 7 hours ago, f7ben said: Fucking Jtsrx..... Doesnt believe the world is round but believes dynotech numbers lol That is the definition of fucking idiot you're the definition of an idiot. I challenge you to prove the heliocentric model. You probably dont even know what I mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 1 minute ago, jtssrx said: What kind of dyno does he use? Also dynotech is the bench mark for all sleds because he synods everything. So the old cat turbo motor in stock form dynoed at 180 I believe. So this motor if it's not really 205 it dynoed at 25 hp more. Also I wouldn't but it past Yamaha to have detuned the sidewinder. I'll be curious to see how a production sidewinder shows at dynotech you're the definition of an idiot. I challenge you to prove the heliocentric model. You probably dont even know what I mean GPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtssrx Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 GPS? Are you saying GPS proves the heliocentric model? If if so your an idiot. We've had GPS type technology since the 1940's. GPS is ground based http://youtu.be/RNHnU48E-MI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Just now, jtssrx said: GPS? Are you saying GPS proves the heliocentric model? If if so your an idiot. We've had GPS type technology since the 1940's. GPS is ground based http://youtu.be/RNHnU48E-MI Yes ....satellites in orbit providing constant location data prove that the earth is round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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