BLOWBACK: HOW ISRAEL WENT FROM HELPING CREATE HAMAS TO BOMBING IT

[motonoggin]

[Angry ginger]

43 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

To the Victor goes the spoils 

[Sal Rosenberg]

46 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

 

 

You know what that chart is trying to say ?  It's saying , " Don't fuck with Honkie "

 

[motonoggin]

12 minutes ago, Angry ginger said:

To the Victor goes the spoils 

That's some dark ages shit.

8 minutes ago, Sal Rosenberg said:

 

 

You know what that chart is trying to say ?  It's saying , " Don't fuck with Honkie "

 

The Vietnamese had it right. 

[Zambroski]

4 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

That's some dark ages shit.

The Vietnamese had it right. 

Dark ages and still rings true today.

Now, at somewhat of a risk just to ask, how exactly did the Vietnamese have it right?  I say “somewhat” because I always enjoy your answers.

[motonoggin]

[Zambroski]

 

4 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

Yes, that’s a meme alright.  But It still didn’t answer my question as to what you meant by the “Vietnamese had it right.”

[motonoggin]

11 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

 

Yes, that’s a meme alright.  But It still didn’t answer my question as to what you meant by the “Vietnamese had it right.”

They knew that they had to slaughter Americans in the most gruesome way possible in order to repel the imperialist hordes.

[Zambroski]

Just now, motonoggin said:

They knew that they had to slaughter Americans in the most gruesome way possible in order to repel the imperialist hordes.

Excellent.  I may circle back to this later or tomorrow.  We can do a whole Q and A thingy!  

 

[Rod]

Liberals triggered by Israel’s right to exist 

[Guest]

The Jews are so smart. They have the US Congress sewn up. How they did it, I don't know, probably money. 

All I know is that this country dies for Israel. 

We lose our wealth, and our soldiers for Israel. 

We got bombed ( 911 ) for Israel. 

We suffer egregiously......for Israel. 

Wow. 

[Anler]

5 hours ago, Polaris 550 said:

The Jews are so smart. They have the US Congress sewn up. How they did it, I don't know, probably money. 

All I know is that this country dies for Israel. 

We lose our wealth, and our soldiers for Israel. 

We got bombed ( 911 ) for Israel. 

We suffer egregiously......for Israel. 

Wow. 

Probably money, eh?

[Jimmy Snacks]

7 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

Liberals triggered by Israel’s right to exist 

Why even bother posting such an inane comment? 

[DriftBusta]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Snacks said:

Why even bother posting such an inane comment? 

You do it multiple times daily.  Its a free country man.

[Momorider]

11 hours ago, Zambroski said:

 

Yes, that’s a meme alright.  But It still didn’t answer my question as to what you meant by the “Vietnamese had it right.”

That Meme is  the US never had all those modern fighter aircraft they show during the Vietnam war 

[Highmark]

On 5/16/2018 at 4:13 PM, motonoggin said:

BLOWBACK: HOW ISRAEL WENT FROM HELPING CREATE HAMAS TO BOMBING IT

WHAT DO YOU know about Hamas?

That it’s sworn to destroy Israel? That it’s a terrorist group, proscribed both by the United States and the European Union? That it rules Gaza with an iron fist? That it’s killed hundreds of innocent Israelis with rocket, mortar, and suicide attacks?

But did you also know that Hamas — which is an Arabic acronym for “Islamic Resistance Movement” — would probably not exist today were it not for the Jewish state? That the Israelis helped turn a bunch of fringe Palestinian Islamists in the late 1970s into one of the world’s most notorious militant groups? That Hamas is blowback?

This isn’t a conspiracy theory. Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)

“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.

They didn’t listen to him. And Hamas, as I explain in the fifth installment of my short film series for The Intercept on blowback, was the result. To be clear: First, the Israelis helped build up a militant strain of Palestinian political Islam, in the form of Hamas and its Muslim Brotherhood precursors; then, the Israelis switched tack and tried to bomb, besiege, and blockade it out of existence.

In the past decade alone, Israel has gone to war with Hamas three times — in 2009, 2012, and 2014 — killing around 2,500 Palestinian civilians in Gaza in the process. Meanwhile, Hamas has killed far more Israeli civilians than any secular Palestinian militant group. This is the human cost of blowback.

“When I look back at the chain of events, I think we made a mistake,” David Hacham, a former Arab affairs expert in the Israeli military who was based in Gaza in the 1980s, later remarked. “But at the time, nobody thought about the possible results.”

They never do, do they?

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

So Israel tries to create a moderate group to counter what was then a very radical PLO and they turned on them.   Why does this surprise anyone in considering the history of that in the Muslim world.

We helped stop possibly a red army invasion of the entire ME in Afghanistan.   Should we have helped build up the country after?   Possibly.  Should we have expected to get stabbed in the back shortly after even without rebuilding their country for them.....fuck no.  

People seem to forget Israel was instrumental in stopping the Red Army as well.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Highmark

[Highmark]

11 hours ago, motonoggin said:

If we fought Korea and Vietnam like we did in WW2 those wars would have been over in 6 months or less.   Don't get me wrong I'm glad we didn't but after WW2 the world looked differently at conflict.   At least we did.   

[Jimmy Snacks]

1 hour ago, DriftBusta said:

You do it multiple times daily.  Its a free country man.

Was I talking to you old man....go lay down before you break a hip.

[motonoggin]

2 hours ago, Highmark said:

So Israel tries to create a moderate group to counter what was then a very radical PLO and they turned on them.   Why does this surprise anyone in considering the history of that in the Muslim world.

We helped stop possibly a red army invasion of the entire ME in Afghanistan.   Should we have helped build up the country after?   Possibly.  Should we have expected to get stabbed in the back shortly after even without rebuilding their country for them.....fuck no.  

People seem to forget Israel was instrumental in stopping the Red Army as well.

A moderate group? No, a radical Islamic group designed to divide the Palestinians. 

The old divide and conquer strategy. 

Reading for comprehension, dummy.

[motonoggin]

This is how fucked Republicans like HM really are. They read an article about Israel creating a radical Islamic organization designed to split the secular Palestinian organizations, and then say that Israel created Hamas as a moderate organization.

I mean, it's like the exact opposite of what happened. 

This is how fascists gain and maintain power.

[Highmark]

Just now, motonoggin said:

This is how fucked Republicans like HM really are. They read an article about Israel creating a radical Islamic organization designed to split the secular Palestinian organizations, and then say that Israel created Hamas as a moderate organization.

I mean, it's like the exact opposite of what happened. 

This is how fascists gain and maintain power.

I read that in another article dipshit.   

[motonoggin]

Just now, Highmark said:

I read that in another article dipshit.   

And that article describes Hamas as moderate, eh? And you just ran with it?

 

[Highmark]

40 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

And that article describes Hamas as moderate, eh? And you just ran with it?

 

As comparison to the PLO at the time yes.  Is there such a thing as "moderate" Islamic group?  

[motonoggin]

6 minutes ago, Highmark said:

As comparison to the PLO at the time yes.  Is there such a thing as "moderate" Islamic group?  

The PLO was secular, dingus.

Do you know what 'secular' means?

[Highmark]

1 minute ago, motonoggin said:

The PLO was secular, dingus.

Do you know what 'secular' means?

I know what it means I also don't buy they are completely secular.   

Under President Arafat, the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority adopted the 2003 Amended Basic Law, which stipulates Islam as the sole official religion in Palestine and the principles of Islamic sharia as a principal source of legislation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization