Remember when absolute retards actually thought that the US never blew up nord stream?

[racer254]

22 hours ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

If biden actually ordered the pipeline to be blown then he has my vote in “24. It’s the first time a president has shown real balls since FDR and WWII. 

Causing more pollution and environment damage than the Ohio train derailment, yet you complain about one and cheer the other because of possible party affiliation.

[spin_dry]

25 minutes ago, Highmark said:

And yet no real effort on the part of the world to come up with the perpetrators.  

Things like this often come down to who will financially benefit and without question that is the US and Norway with Russia being the loser.   On top of that the US announced multiple times if Russia invades the US will stop it "one way or another." 

 I don’t see any profit motive by the west as a reason to blow the pipelines. NS1 was shut down by Russia already with income from the pipeline going to zero. NS2 was dead in the water as an abandoned project due to sanctions. Putin knew that the EU was done with his gas as long as the Ukraine invasion was ongoing and most likely for years to follow. The belief was that the EU would cave without Russian gas. That proved to be very very wrong 

[Highmark]

20 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

 I don’t see any profit motive by the west as a reason to blow the pipelines. NS1 was shut down by Russia already with income from the pipeline going to zero. NS2 was dead in the water as an abandoned project due to sanctions. Putin knew that the EU was done with his gas as long as the Ukraine invasion was ongoing and most likely for years to follow. The belief was that the EU would cave without Russian gas. That proved to be very very wrong 

No doubt Russia thought their energy would limit EU's role in Ukraine but I disagree on the idea to sabotage it because of the invasion taking years.   Its doubtful it would have taken place in the first place if they knew how hard it was going to be.  

[akvanden]

1 hour ago, Highmark said:

Again arguments could be made on both sides of who has more to gain or lose.  Not hard to see the US and Norway having much financial incentive selling NG and Coal to Germany and other European countries. 

I would be amazed if a few extra inefficient cargo ships of LNG that only a few in the gas industry benefit from would be the reason to piss off all of Europe. Pros cons, and that’s a very small pro.

[Highmark]

14 minutes ago, akvanden said:

I would be amazed if a few extra inefficient cargo ships of LNG that only a few in the gas industry benefit from would be the reason to piss off all of Europe. Pros cons, and that’s a very small pro.

Maybe.  But as I stated before Russia blowing it up would be like us blowing up a NG pipeline to Mexico while we fought a war with Canada.   Wouldn't make much sense even if Mexico was supporting Canada by sending them arms. 

No matter who did it I think its important for the world to know and if there were evidence Russia did it we would know. 

https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/the-oil-and-gas-pipeline-system/

 

[spin_dry]

19 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Maybe.  But as I stated before Russia blowing it up would be like us blowing up a NG pipeline to Mexico while we fought a war with Canada.   Wouldn't make much sense even if Mexico was supporting Canada by sending them arms. 

No matter who did it I think its important for the world to know and if there were evidence Russia did it we would know. 

https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/the-oil-and-gas-pipeline-system/

 

That might be true if Gazprom was the sole owner and financier of NS1 and 2. It’s not.  In fact the 51% Gazprom owned NS1 is financed by several non-Russian sources. Russia’s losses are much smaller than many are programmed to believe. 

[akvanden]

5 hours ago, Highmark said:

Maybe.  But as I stated before Russia blowing it up would be like us blowing up a NG pipeline to Mexico while we fought a war with Canada.   Wouldn't make much sense even if Mexico was supporting Canada by sending them arms. 

No matter who did it I think its important for the world to know and if there were evidence Russia did it we would know. 

https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/the-oil-and-gas-pipeline-system/

 

Russia blowing it up would be like Russia invading a country and trying to disincentivize Europe from playing a part in the short run, all the while while blaming someone else.
 

You can’t explain a bigger motive than trying to disincentiving people supporting the war. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by akvanden

[Highmark]

14 hours ago, akvanden said:

Russia blowing it up would be like Russia invading a country and trying to disincentivize Europe from playing a part in the short run, all the while while blaming someone else.
 

You can’t explain a bigger motive than trying to disincentiving people supporting the war. 

Reality is this.   Both side would have an incentive.   Only one side has a financial incentive.   Only one side made multiple claims saying it will be stopped "one way or another."  5 months and the only information we have on what happened was a story that broke.  

Ever think why there hasn't been a big push to show proof it was Russia?   Because that makes it a much bigger lie than it already is.

Pro Ukraine war people come on here and say look Putin announces what his intentions are.....well so do we. 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Highmark

[Deephaven]

Putin doesn't need to do anything for financial gain. 

 

[f7ben]

On 2/16/2023 at 2:14 PM, DriftBusta said:

Let’s be honest here.  We’re living with the most corrupt government in our lifetimes.

Nah GWB was 1000x worse 

[Steve753]

14 minutes ago, f7ben said:

Nah GWB was 1000x worse 

Obama and Biden are by far more corrupt than GWB.

[f7ben]

27 minutes ago, Steve753 said:

Obama and Biden are by far more corrupt than GWB.

Ah no , not even close. The patriot act and the wars are the pinnacle of government over reach , rights abuse and corruption in my lifetime. It’s not even close. 

[Ez ryder]

On 2/16/2023 at 12:27 PM, ActionfigureJoe said:

If biden actually ordered the pipeline to be blown then he has my vote in “24. It’s the first time a president has shown real balls since FDR and WWII. 

Biden ordered lmfao. he has to have some one order his fucking jello 

[spin_dry]

1 hour ago, f7ben said:

Ah no , not even close. The patriot act and the wars are the pinnacle of government over reach , rights abuse and corruption in my lifetime. It’s not even close. 

That miserable piece of shit chased me away from the GOP. Now look at what I’ve got. 

[f7ben]

29 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

That miserable piece of shit chased me away from the GOP. Now look at what I’ve got. 

You and me both friendo , you and me both. Now I’m left with a cold plate of apathy to choke on for the rest of my miserable life 

[Anler]

On 2/17/2023 at 11:02 AM, spin_dry said:

 I don’t see any profit motive by the west as a reason to blow the pipelines. NS1 was shut down by Russia already with income from the pipeline going to zero. NS2 was dead in the water as an abandoned project due to sanctions. Putin knew that the EU was done with his gas as long as the Ukraine invasion was ongoing and most likely for years to follow. The belief was that the EU would cave without Russian gas. That proved to be very very wrong 

You are absolutely retarded. 100%

[Anler]

On 2/17/2023 at 11:59 AM, akvanden said:

I would be amazed if a few extra inefficient cargo ships of LNG that only a few in the gas industry benefit from would be the reason to piss off all of Europe. Pros cons, and that’s a very small pro.

The west definitely has an interest in slowing the German economy. It's one of the largest in the world and was thriving with cheap Russian oil and gas. They don't want Germany getting too cozy with Russia. 

Two parties that definitely didn't want the pipeline blown up is Germany and Russia. 

And now who benefits from it? The west selling it at 200% higher price? A child can figure this out. 

[spin_dry]

19 minutes ago, Anler said:

The west definitely has an interest in slowing the German economy. It's one of the largest in the world and was thriving with cheap Russian oil and gas. They don't want Germany getting too cozy with Russia. 

Two parties that definitely didn't want the pipeline blown up is Germany and Russia. 

And now who benefits from it? The west selling it at 200% higher price? A child can figure this out. 

You make zero sense. Putin had already closed the NS1 pipeline. The NS2 was dead in the water. There’s was no gas flowing and wouldn’t be as long as germany supported Ukraine. There was zero gain for the west blowing the pipelines as they weren’t delivering gas. 

[akvanden]

21 hours ago, Anler said:

The west definitely has an interest in slowing the German economy. It's one of the largest in the world and was thriving with cheap Russian oil and gas. They don't want Germany getting too cozy with Russia. 

Two parties that definitely didn't want the pipeline blown up is Germany and Russia. 

And now who benefits from it? The west selling it at 200% higher price? A child can figure this out. 

Germany is no threat to the US. And what awful timing when we need Germany’s support in Ukraine.  Sorry, the political risks are far too great in exchange for some inefficient LNG tankers. Huge downside potential, marginal upside.

 

On 2/18/2023 at 8:32 AM, Highmark said:

Reality is this.   Both side would have an incentive.   Only one side has a financial incentive.   Only one side made multiple claims saying it will be stopped "one way or another."  5 months and the only information we have on what happened was a story that broke.  

Ever think why there hasn't been a big push to show proof it was Russia?   Because that makes it a much bigger lie than it already is.

Pro Ukraine war people come on here and say look Putin announces what his intentions are.....well so do we. 

 

Only one side has financial incentive?!?! This war is bleeding Russia dry and you don’t think they have a financial and political reason to want it to come to a swift end in their favor? 

[Highmark]

5 hours ago, akvanden said:

Germany is no threat to the US. And what awful timing when we need Germany’s support in Ukraine.  Sorry, the political risks are far too great in exchange for some inefficient LNG tankers. Huge downside potential, marginal upside.

 

Only one side has financial incentive?!?! This war is bleeding Russia dry and you don’t think they have a financial and political reason to want it to come to a swift end in their favor? 

And bombing their own pipeline is a means to a quick end?   

[akvanden]

5 minutes ago, Highmark said:

And bombing their own pipeline is a means to a quick end?   

Quicker, yes. The only way Russia wins this war is outlasting the west. Increased energy prices and the illusion that they’re not to blame is part of that strategy.

[Highmark]

11 hours ago, akvanden said:

Quicker, yes. The only way Russia wins this war is outlasting the west. Increased energy prices and the illusion that they’re not to blame is part of that strategy.

Russia doesn't know that the US and Norway can supply energy?   Russia doesn't know they can just sell NG to China, NK and plenty of other places?  Be pretty foolish for Russia to think they can "outlast" the west.   Who ever has been able and willing to borrow or print money like us?

Russia doesn't lose wars unless the govt collapses.   

How many Ukrainian soldiers do you find acceptable to die because we now have a new found hatred for Russia?  Russia might be willing to lose 500K or more.  How many Ukrainians die and how much of their country will be destroyed?  To Russia this is about their own security.  Its crazy people like you can't see that but then again you think NATO is just a defensive organization with no offensive capabilities.       

Edited February 20, 2023 by Highmark

[SnowRider]

5 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Russia doesn't know that the US and Norway can supply energy?   Russia doesn't know they can just sell NG to China, NK and plenty of other places?  Be pretty foolish for Russia to think they can "outlast" the west.   Who ever has been able and willing to borrow or print money like us?

Russia doesn't lose wars unless the govt collapses.   

How many Ukrainian soldiers do you find acceptable to die because we now have a new found hatred for Russia?  Russia might be willing to lose 500K or more.  How many Ukrainians die and how much of their country will be destroyed?  To them this is about their own security.  Its crazy people like you can't see that.   

Why can’t you understand Ukraine is willingly defending their country.  What they need are weapons - which the west is providing.  WTF would you do if the US/Iowa was invaded?  

[Highmark]

13 minutes ago, SnowRider said:

Why can’t you understand Ukraine is willingly defending their country.  What they need are weapons - which the west is providing.  WTF would you do if the US/Iowa was invaded?  

I completely get why they want to fight...I've never questioned that.  I also understand why Russia feels this is necessary for their own security.  I even supported giving them some weapons early on but not to this level.    

Answer this question.   Would the US accept Canada or Mexico joining the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and put military "defense" bases all over it?   Not a chance.

Comparing Ukraine to an invasion on the US is ridiculous at this point.  Ukraine was a part of Russia not that long ago and still has millions of ethnic Russians as citizens.  Russia feels threatened by talks of expanding NATO around them even more.  The west miscalculated that because Russia got so much economic benefit from supplying Europe energy they would just allow it.   Well they didn't.   

The United States is broke...even your guy Joe admitted that the other day.   I don't care how right Ukraine is defending themselves.   Its not our fight.   Its Europe's.  By the way where the fuck is the UN?  Guess Bosnia and Libya was enough for a few decades.    

Its looking more like the US wanted this war as they may have interfered in peace talks prior to the invasion.  

Edited February 20, 2023 by Highmark

[akvanden]

3 hours ago, Highmark said:

Russia doesn't know that the US and Norway can supply energy?

Not in the same quantity in the short term. And certainly not a reason for the US to destroy a pipeline for some additional inefficient LNG ships with huge downside potential. 

3 hours ago, Highmark said:

Russia doesn't know they can just sell NG to China, NK and plenty of other places?

Sure they can, but that doesn't help the EU, the ones supporting Ukraine. 
 

3 hours ago, Highmark said:

Be pretty foolish for Russia to think they can "outlast" the west.   Who ever has been able and willing to borrow or print money like us?

That's their strategy right now, so no, not foolish. Don't act like the idea of using energy as a tool to break the EUs solidarity is a new concept to you. OR, shifting blame for the damage amongst allies so they can bicker amongst themselves which also erodes solidarity. 
 

3 hours ago, Highmark said:

Russia doesn't lose wars unless the govt collapses.   

Like outlasting the west now that we're a year into this? Either than or get booted from power. Doesn't sound like any other choice. 
 

3 hours ago, Highmark said:

How many Ukrainian soldiers do you find acceptable to die because we now have a new found hatred for Russia?  Russia might be willing to lose 500K or more.  How many Ukrainians die and how much of their country will be destroyed?  To Russia this is about their own security.  Its crazy people like you can't see that but then again you think NATO is just a defensive organization with no offensive capabilities.

That's up to Ukraine whether or not they want to defend their country. I certainly would want the opportunity to defend mine if invaded.
 

3 hours ago, Highmark said:

Is this the part where we both start finding humor?

Edited February 20, 2023 by akvanden