Too fast?

[Crnr2Crnr 4,575]

Are the available speeds, hp and abilities of modern snowmobiles too much for some people to handle at times? 

Cars/Trucks now have numerous safety nannies like abs, traction and stability control... yet sleds rely primarily upon rider input in ever changing conditions and circumstances.

Has the ability of modern sleds exceeded the ability of current day riders? 

& I'm prepared...

[Not greg b 1,070]

5 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Are the available speeds, hp and abilities of modern snowmobiles too much for some people to handle at times? 

Cars/Trucks now have numerous safety nannies like abs, traction and stability control... yet sleds rely primarily upon rider input in ever changing conditions and circumstances.

Has the ability of modern sleds exceeded the ability of current day riders? 

& I'm prepared...

Rider ability was surpassed by suspension/chassis technology when the first rider forward sleds came out for most people.  

[J. Jackson 1,073]

You must have lots of time on your hands or a free contributing membership. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by J. Jackson

[ICG 126]

Of course they have 0 - 100 mph in mere feet...riding on snow and ice.  

[Badger** 4,139]

17 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Are the available speeds, hp and abilities of modern snowmobiles too much for some people to handle at times? 

Cars/Trucks now have numerous safety nannies like abs, traction and stability control... yet sleds rely primarily upon rider input in ever changing conditions and circumstances.

Has the ability of modern sleds exceeded the ability of current day riders? 

& I'm prepared...

Have you ever been 127 mph on a sled?? You have to prepare yourself and the course that you're going to take. Post Lake 2011 TSR only those days are over for me. I am sure many guys on here have gone much faster. 

[Crnr2Crnr 4,575]

14 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

Rider ability was surpassed by suspension/chassis technology when the first rider forward sleds came out for most people.  

I'd agree with that, but what changed with people's perception of how fast they may be traveling?

13 minutes ago, J. Jackson said:

You must have lots of time on your hands or a free contributing membership. 

I do, and enjoy making people use their brains.  

Feel free to start a thread of your own to stimulate actual snowmobile related conversation here.  

Think of it as a challenge next time you are with your riding buddies or engaging multiple brain cells at the same time. 

 

[Badger** 4,139]

Just now, Crnr2Crnr said:

I'd agree with that, but what changed with people's perception of how fast they may be traveling?

I do, and enjoy making people use their brains.  

Feel free to start a thread of your own to stimulate actual snowmobile related conversation here.  

Think of it as a challenge next time you are with your riding buddies or engaging multiple brain cells at the same time. 

 

You just keep making snowmobile threats I appreciate them. The politics are getting old. 

[Crnr2Crnr 4,575]

4 minutes ago, ICG said:

Of course they have 0 - 100 mph in mere feet...riding on snow and ice.  

attention/alert 

we have a thinker 🤔 on our hands

3 minutes ago, Badger** said:

Have you ever been 127 mph on a sled?? You have to prepare yourself and the course that you're going to take. Post Lake 2011 TSR only those days are over for me. I am sure many guys on here have gone much faster. 

nope 

have you? 

tbh, I don't want to pile into a tree at 27mph no less adding 100 to the multiplier. 

basic physics vs risk/reward 

let me know when you want to run that tippy hyper sled up against something with 1/2 the HP into a tree. 

 

 

 

[Crnr2Crnr 4,575]

3 minutes ago, Badger** said:

You just keep making snowmobile threats I appreciate them. The politics are getting old. 

threats? 

 

didn't you get the scrabble dictionary I sent you for Xmas?

[Badger** 4,139]

Just now, Crnr2Crnr said:

threats? 

 

didn't you get the scrabble dictionary I sent you for Xmas?

sorry I was using talk text. Thread* Here I was giving you a compliment and you shove it up my ass. Pifft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crnr2Crnr 4,575]

2 minutes ago, Badger** said:

sorry I was using talk text. Thread* Here I was giving you a compliment and you shove it up my ass. Pifft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

no need to apologize, I'm accustomed to people here misspelling things. 

also, not necessary to bring your anus into the conversation.  what you insert up there is none of our business. 

 

[Badger** 4,139]

4 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

attention/alert 

we have a thinker 🤔 on our hands

nope 

have you? 

tbh, I don't want to pile into a tree at 27mph no less adding 100 to the multiplier. 

basic physics vs risk/reward 

let me know when you want to run that tippy hyper sled up against something with 1/2 the HP into a tree. 

 

 

 

Yes on the 127

Yes into an ice heave at over 100 MPH ended up in the hospital 2000 on Lake Wisconsin. I lived to tell about that is a reward enough for me.  

[Crnr2Crnr 4,575]

20 minutes ago, Badger** said:

Yes on the 127

Yes into an ice heave at over 100 MPH ended up in the hospital 2000 on Lake Wisconsin. I lived to tell about that is a reward enough for me.  

congratulations on hitting a #

what, if anything did that change about your riding habits or risk/reward determinations?



when I was a kid... 

we started out on single slug bogie wheeled spine crushers with a nut impaling or sucking single carb between your legs and one leaf spring, then graduated to twin cylinders, dual carbs, liquid cooling, etc.  the step father of my best friend growing up had one of the first Indy 600 triples sold in Wisconsin to the public.  that sled was a whopping 90hp stock if my memory is correct... could be wrong but i'm too lazy to verify it atm.  point being when I was young we had a learning curve of hp from the one lungers, to twins and more power (60hp was a ripper) that developed actual respect for the machine and what it was capable of and at times i wonder if that is totally lost on people today, especially those with little to no experience.  

as easy it as is for many of us here (obviously experienced and probably near senior citizenship) that dish upon Textron/Polaris/BRP for bringing out simple 50-85hp sleds in the past several years (I'll include myself) I am going to change my tone and applaud them for possibly recognizing that there is or may be a market niche for people the need to go through the same learning curve many of us may have decades and many miles ago.  should most new or inexperienced people with limited riding experience jump on 120hp class sleds today, or strap something with 160-200hp stock between their legs? 

not judging, but may have this alternate perspective...

       

[krom 569]

There are plenty of riders who don't have the talent to deal with the HP and speed of a 90's 440 fan...

Depends on why you ride..

Even though its not the right weapon for my riding area, I will say there isn't much like wacking the flipper on a big turbo procross that is already doing over 100 and pulling the skis (or having it spin and point sideways).

As far as "driving aides" I'm not sure how the manufactures could implement them practically.  Anything other than a speed limiter (anti lock brakes, real traction control, stability control etc) would require a way to know actual ground speed and travel direction, something easy to do in a vehicle with 2 or more tires on the road.  When you only have the one track, and the "road" is slippery to begin with there isn't many ways to get the data you need.

 

[Badger** 4,139]

19 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

congratulations on hitting a #

what, if anything did that change about your riding habits or risk/reward determinations?



when I was a kid... 

we started out on single slug bogie wheeled spine crushers with a nut impaling or sucking single carb between your legs and one leaf spring, then graduated to twin cylinders, dual carbs, liquid cooling, etc.  the step father of my best friend growing up had one of the first Indy 600 triples sold in Wisconsin to the public.  that sled was a whopping 90hp stock if my memory is correct... could be wrong but i'm too lazy to verify it atm.  point being when I was young we had a learning curve of hp from the one lungers, to twins and more power (60hp was a ripper) that developed actual respect for the machine and what it was capable of and at times i wonder if that is totally lost on people today, especially those with little to no experience.  

as easy it as is for many of us here (obviously experienced and probably near senior citizenship) that dish upon Textron/Polaris/BRP for bringing out simple 50-85hp sleds in the past several years (I'll include myself) I am going to change my tone and applaud them for possibly recognizing that there is or may be a market niche for people the need to go through the same learning curve many of us may have decades and many miles ago.  should most new or inexperienced people with limited riding experience jump on 120hp class sleds today, or strap something with 160-200hp stock between their legs? 

not judging, but may have this alternate perspective...

       

I started out on a Harley-Davidson AMF Ski Daddler that looked like this one, the only thing going for it was it had a pop out cigarette lighter and maybe it was 35-45 hp I'm not sure.  I was six or seven years old and I got to run it around the yard with bread bags in my boots and shitty wet gloves and giving the other kids a ride in the neighborhood. By 11 I got a 1973 Yamaha 292 a few years later I bought a Yamaha 433 1974. 

[Deephaven 5,180]

I always laugh when people talk about sleds that rail.  100% of the time I am riding with someone else I am contemplating what will happen if the follow me directly and then adjusting so they don't kill themselves.  Even more so when they are on my spare machine.  Speaking of, I need a new spare.

[Palu49 266]

42 minutes ago, krom said:

There are plenty of riders who don't have the talent to deal with the HP and speed of a 90's 440 fan...

Depends on why you ride..

Even though its not the right weapon for my riding area, I will say there isn't much like wacking the flipper on a big turbo procross that is already doing over 100 and pulling the skis (or having it spin and point sideways).

As far as "driving aides" I'm not sure how the manufactures could implement them practically.  Anything other than a speed limiter (anti lock brakes, real traction control, stability control etc) would require a way to know actual ground speed and travel direction, something easy to do in a vehicle with 2 or more tires on the road.  When you only have the one track, and the "road" is slippery to begin with there isn't many ways to get the data you need.

 

When I come to get my clutch tomorrow we’re gonna engineer traction control. Quite simple if we put boat paddle wheel speed senders on the backs of the skis, won’t work for the more “playful” sleds though.

2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Are the available speeds, hp and abilities of modern snowmobiles too much for some people to handle at times? 

Cars/Trucks now have numerous safety nannies like abs, traction and stability control... yet sleds rely primarily upon rider input in ever changing conditions and circumstances.

Has the ability of modern sleds exceeded the ability of current day riders? 

& I'm prepared...

I did 116 gps on my buddies 17 turbo RR on a whooped tug hill seasonal road. Stupid and I wouldn’t do it again, the scariest part was even with the bumps it felt like I wasn’t going THAT fast. I raced another buddies turbo mod stock cat for a few years drag racing as well and it was scary how boring it felt on a sled with high 400hps. 

[800renegaderider 3,102]

Yes, let’s add adaptive cruise, blind spot monitoring, traction control, blinkers, snow ride right center lane departure, speed limiters etc. that is sure to keep sled prices down so people can afford to buy these toys to use for 2 to 3 months. People need to regulate themselves ride to your ability not the sleds no amount of safety crap will ever make them safer. Look at cars they all got this junk and I’m busier than ever fixing wrecked cars 😂.

[HSR 17,019]

I can hear @Tommcat laughing at the 127 mph comment all the way up here in Canada 

[ICG 126]

Fortunately, a couple of dollars for an  electric governor / speed control for the throttle would make it safer for less physically fit (or handi capped) person's who grab a little to much throttle . . . Already heard sister in laws complaining years back.  

Easy fix with fly by wire technology 

[Crnr2Crnr 4,575]

1 hour ago, krom said:

There are plenty of riders who don't have the talent to deal with the HP and speed of a 90's 440 fan...

Depends on why you ride..

Even though its not the right weapon for my riding area, I will say there isn't much like wacking the flipper on a big turbo procross that is already doing over 100 and pulling the skis (or having it spin and point sideways).

As far as "driving aides" I'm not sure how the manufactures could implement them practically.  Anything other than a speed limiter (anti lock brakes, real traction control, stability control etc) would require a way to know actual ground speed and travel direction, something easy to do in a vehicle with 2 or more tires on the road.  When you only have the one track, and the "road" is slippery to begin with there isn't many ways to get the data you need.

 

more power is amusing for certain, but this thread was not about your own, my own or anyone else's personal abilities here.

how many people buy new sleds that are above their own capabilities where you work with regularity... in your opinion?

49 minutes ago, Badger** said:

I started out on a Harley-Davidson AMF Ski Daddler that looked like this one, the only thing going for it was it had a pop out cigarette lighter and maybe it was 35-45 hp I'm not sure.  I was six or seven years old and I got to run it around the yard with bread bags in my boots and shitty wet gloves and giving the other kids a ride in the neighborhood. By 11 I got a 1973 Yamaha 292 a few years later I bought a Yamaha 433 1974. 

how much would you pay to get back on that same sled for an hour tomorrow?

16 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

I always laugh when people talk about sleds that rail.  100% of the time I am riding with someone else I am contemplating what will happen if the follow me directly and then adjusting so they don't kill themselves.  Even more so when they are on my spare machine.  Speaking of, I need a new spare.

imo, everyone has their own definition of railing corners.  to me a sled that rails corners can do it just as confidently at 75 as it does at 25

15 minutes ago, Palu49 said:

I did 116 gps on my buddies 17 turbo RR on a whooped tug hill seasonal road. Stupid and I wouldn’t do it again, the scariest part was even with the bumps it felt like I wasn’t going THAT fast. I raced another buddies turbo mod stock cat for a few years drag racing as well and it was scary how boring it felt on a sled with high 400hps. 

not questioning you're abilities... but what if something broke at 116 on Thug Hump going that fast?  not judging... just wondering how a newb would react to a track coming apart, a brake failure, suspension deciding to pack or many of the variables those here with experience might be able to ride out, ride through or sort out and react to without thought. 

11 minutes ago, 800renegaderider said:

Yes, let’s add adaptive cruise, blind spot monitoring, traction control, blinkers, snow ride right center lane departure, speed limiters etc. that is sure to keep sled prices down so people can afford to buy these toys to use for 2 to 3 months. People need to regulate themselves ride to your ability not the sleds no amount of safety crap will ever make them safer. Look at cars they all got this junk and I’m busier than ever fixing wrecked cars 😂.

puhleeze... no one here would encourage or support that.  don't interpret the opening of a conversation to lead your brain down some imaginary pathway.

[Crnr2Crnr 4,575]

7 minutes ago, HSR said:

I can hear @Tommcat laughing at the 127 mph comment all the way up here in Canada 

you just earned it... 

[mnstang 1,436]

I just worked on my 340 PUMA all frickin day chasing a gremlin.  Finally got it.  And it fucking RIPS.  

That is all.

[Badger** 4,139]

23 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

you just earned it... 

Like I said "there have been guys on here I am sure that have gone much faster" but he's to stupid to read that part. Humm ride one of those old sled for and hour?? I would like to drive my old 433 EL it had hi/low range wide track and it had electric start top speed was 55 MPH, it wasn't fast like the GP'S. My sister and I would take it to school all winter long. 

[Crnr2Crnr 4,575]

6 minutes ago, mnstang said:

I just worked on my 340 PUMA all frickin day chasing a gremlin.  Finally got it.  And it fucking RIPS.  

That is all.

did you get it wet?  

I know you aren't supposed to do that with mogwais, but not puma's???

great tech tip!