f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 3 things impact where a turbo motor makes power....intake and port restriction , exhaust restriction and turbo sizing as you raise boost pressure and allow rpm to climb peak hp will continually shift to the right until you meet a flow restriction or the turbo starts to run off the map these are facts Edited March 9, 2022 by f7ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, f7ben said: 3 things impact where a turbo motor makes power....intake and port restriction , exhaust restriction and turbo sizing as you raise boost pressure and allow rpm to climb peak hp will continually shift to the right until you meet a flow restriction or the turbo starts to run off the map these are facts Turbo engine are still subject to the helmholtz effect like an NA engine. They often carry further providing the turbo can supply the air due to the lack of valve overlap which also works in an NA engine Intake\exhaust pressure differential is about the only difference between NA and turbio when it comes to harmonics a turbio moteur can carry far past peak or not depending how it’s designed just like an NA moteur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Just now, ACE said: Turbo engine are still subject to the helmholtz effect like an NA engine. They often carry further providing the turbo can supply the air due to the lack of valve overlap which also works in an NA engine Intake\exhaust pressure differential is about the only difference between NA and turbio when it comes to harmonics a turbio moteur can carry far past peak or not depending how it’s designed just like an NA moteur Sure but running a turbo motor at 7500rpm where it’s making great torque or upping the boost given a good size turbo and running it at 9k rpm isn’t going to cost you much efficiency like it would in an NA motor. There’s a reason why you can run a turbo motor at 7500 rpm or 8k rpm or 8500 rpm or 9500 rpm and make great power at each step. You are force feeding the fucking thing and small losses in efficiency aren’t nearly as critical as with an NA motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, f7ben said: Sure but running a turbo motor at 7500rpm where it’s making great torque or upping the boost given a good size turbo and running it at 9k rpm isn’t going to cost you much efficiency like it would in an NA motor. There’s a reason why you can run a turbo motor at 7500 rpm or 8k rpm or 8500 rpm or 9500 rpm and make great power at each step. You are force feeding the fucking thing and small losses in efficiency aren’t nearly as critical as with an NA motor You can do that with an NA engine as well. It’ll peak lower but hold a lot longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, ACE said: You can do that with an NA engine as well. It’ll peak lower but hold a lot longer To put it as simply as possible ...as long as your turbo is still operating efficiently you can continue to increase boost and rpm and the motor will continue to make more power. You will get to a point where the turbo will no longer deliver additional air required to overcome the efficiency loss and power will start to fall off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51878&start=30 good discussion on why a turbo motor is so much different than an NA motor and how peak power is affected by various factors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 9, 2022 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 9, 2022 2 hours ago, f7ben said: So why would simply turning up the boost make it better? Well if the power is increased and went up in rpm it "could" still use stock clutching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 59 minutes ago, Highmark said: Well if the power is increased and went up in rpm it "could" still use stock clutching. Well if the power is increased and the clutching was the same obviously the rpm went up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldslowsledder Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 8 hours ago, f7ben said: It’s an anemic motor ....it’s never going to be fast. Also who’s going to buy a 25k sled and then immediately void the warranty just to be able keep up with a stock winder? Disagree, it is fast and pretty damn close to a Winder with better handling and ride 6 hours ago, J. Jackson said: A friends Mach ran 103 in 700ft this past weekend. Played with the clutching a bit and only has about 100 miles on it. Not that shabby. "Stock" Sidewinders were a bit faster. Have 500 kilometers on mine now, feels much better than it did. Son and I were out today on the lake, couple inches of powder. I jumped him from a standing stop on my 850 Renegade and held on for a couple seconds but he went flying past and kept distancing. Said it settled in at 7800rpm, 200 higher than new Here's the dream-o meter readings And for south of the border 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, oldslowsledder said: Disagree, it is fast and pretty damn close to a Winder with better handling and ride Have 500 kilometers on mine now, feels much better than it did. Son and I were out today on the lake, couple inches of powder. I jumped him from a standing stop on my 850 Renegade and held on for a couple seconds but he went flying past and kept distancing. Said it settled in at 7800rpm, 200 higher than new Here's the dream-o meter readings And for south of the border You must have a good one.....most full kill tune 900s struggle to get past stock winders 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 9, 2022 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, f7ben said: Well if the power is increased and the clutching was the same obviously the rpm went up Yes and if the power curve also increased or didn't fall off that clutching could easily be acceptable. Edited March 9, 2022 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 3 hours ago, ACE said: Turbo engine are still subject to the helmholtz effect like an NA engine. They often carry further providing the turbo can supply the air due to the lack of valve overlap which also works in an NA engine Helmholtz resonance will be found in any chamber with an opening, but isn't at all relevant to the discussion here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Highmark said: Yes and if the power curve also increased or didn't fall off that clutching could easily be acceptable. That’s been my point all along. Tell that to HSR who claimed you couldn’t add power without changing clutching. He also stated the same clutch setup could never work at multiple different power levels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Deephaven said: Helmholtz resonance will be found in any chamber with an opening, but isn't at all relevant to the discussion here. He was grasping a bit there lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 9, 2022 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 9, 2022 3 hours ago, f7ben said: 3 things impact where a turbo motor makes power....intake and port restriction , exhaust restriction and turbo sizing as you raise boost pressure and allow rpm to climb peak hp will continually shift to the right until you meet a flow restriction or the turbo starts to run off the map these are facts And exactly why stock clutching might work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 9, 2022 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 9, 2022 Just now, f7ben said: That’s been my point all along. Tell that to HSR who claimed you couldn’t add power without changing clutching. He also stated the same clutch setup could never work at multiple different power levels Sorry I thought you were claiming that. My bad again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 Just now, f7ben said: He was grasping a bit there lol Nope. Intake harmonics play a role regardless of whether it’s boosted or NA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Just now, Highmark said: And exactly why stock clutching might work fine. Exactly ....there are also some other benefits to that type of scheme. Namely moving away from the torque peak by spinning a motor at a higher rpm provides significant detonation resistance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, ACE said: Nope. Intake harmonics play a role regardless of whether it’s boosted or NA Right but in a boosted application where the harmonics cost you a few hp it matters very little cause you simply jam a little more air and fuel in lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, f7ben said: That’s been my point all along. Tell that to HSR who claimed you couldn’t add power without changing clutching. He also stated the same clutch setup could never work at multiple different power levels Obviously, like others have noted, clutch calibration needs to be set for the maximum anticipated power level Your info Benny boi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 9, 2022 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, f7ben said: Exactly ....there are also some other benefits to that type of scheme. Namely moving away from the torque peak by spinning a motor at a higher rpm provides significant detonation resistance Yep. Went thu thus tuning my STM on my winder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, f7ben said: Exactly ....there are also some other benefits to that type of scheme. Namely moving away from the torque peak by spinning a motor at a higher rpm provides significant detonation resistance Hurricane liked doing that to bandaid their shitty tunes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Just now, ACE said: Hurricane liked doing that to bandaid their shitty tunes It’s not a bandaid. If you take 300hp at 7700rpm and 300hp at 8800 rpm the lower rpm sled will probably be slightly faster but it’s going to need much more octane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, HSR said: Obviously, like others have noted, clutch calibration needs to be set for the maximum anticipated power level Your info Benny boi Post the whole quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Just now, f7ben said: Post the whole quote No need that is all I stated and your hero agreed , you clutch for peak power. Why wouldn't you?? You're belt blowing POS is proof it doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.