Rod Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 hours ago, motonoggin said: I'm not going to perform a whole bunch of emotional labor for you. I'd suggest watching a few videos made by actual Communists, or books written by them. It's really not that hard a concept to understand when you actually make an effort. The Communist manifesto is a good place to start and it's pretty short. If it weren't for the constant interventionism from capitalist states, we may have seen such a thing. Sadly, capitalism is deathly afraid of competiting ideologies. Somewhat ironic, I think. It is interesting that communist countries live in poverty without access to capitalist markets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momorider Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sludgey said: It is interesting that communist countries live in poverty without access to capitalist markets Best thing that ever happened to China was the end of HK as a British holding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 52 minutes ago, MiSledder said: Don't laugh, it's already being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 11, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Don't laugh, it's already being discussed. But it wouldn't be fair if one country had a larger UBI than others right? He is correct I've seen this lunacy discussed. "Here's a basic income to provide for your family, now go out and work." Edited January 11, 2017 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: Typical capitalist, wants someone to do something for them for nothing so they can sit back and be lazy. Go read some literature, maybe you'll get a better understanding. Typical of someone who feels that the lazy are entitled to the same as those who are not. You said the ditch diggers would take care of the doctors and the doctors would want for nothing. The doctors should have free choice of the rewards they have in compensation for their superior skills and knowledge over that of the ditch digger. Not what the ditch digger decides the doctor should or should not have. You still refuse to describe the rose coloured utopia YOU want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, 02sled said: Typical of someone who feels that the lazy are entitled to the same as those who are not. You said the ditch diggers would take care of the doctors and the doctors would want for nothing. The doctors should have free choice of the rewards they have in compensation for their superior skills and knowledge over that of the ditch digger. Not what the ditch digger decides the doctor should or should not have. You still refuse to describe the rose coloured utopia YOU want. It's hilarious watching you try and explain communism to an actual communist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmeeAgain Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 hours ago, motonoggin said: I have a toilet similar to that! They are the BOMB.COM!!! No TP and a clean ass every time!! 3 hours ago, 02sled said: You would still have the ditch digger and you would still have the eye surgeon but they would all be equal. They would all live in equal housing, all drive equal vehicles and have equal lifestyles. There you have it... do away with the lower, middle and upper class lifestyles. Now what motivation would there be for the eye surgeon to get the education, develop the skills and endure the stress of the job when he fares no better in life than the ditch digger. 3 hours ago, motonoggin said: Do you think doctors get into their profession just for the money? Every Dr. I have ever known, and that is more than 10, go into it for the $ 2 hours ago, 02sled said: That would only be part of the equation when they choose their profession. They also would want to be compensated appropriately in accordance with their skill level and the amount of education and training that goes into getting there. They are not totally altruistic. In general, doctors complete a 4-year undergraduate degree program, spend 4 years in medical school, and then complete 3-7 years of residency training before they are eligible for medical licensing. In your delusion they should go through all of that just to have the same lifestyle as the ditch digger. 2 hours ago, motonoggin said: The people will treat them very well if they're good doctors. They will want for very little, as will everyone else. The reason they become doctors IS because they want more in life. Five of my good friends are doctors ranging from gen practitioner to radiologist to anesthesiologist and this is the case for sure. This example you put up simply isn't the trait of someone who works hard to become successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, motonoggin said: It's hilarious watching you try and explain communism to an actual communist. Yet you refuse to describe your vision of Utopia. Still waiting for your perception of communism. Why do you avoid it so much? So you said no one will want for anything in your fantasy land. Does that mean that Everyone can eat a fine steak whenever they want, drive around in a Cadillac, have a 3,000 sq. ft. home, a 2000 sq, ft. cottage, a few boats and snowmobiles. Actually there is a couple of brothers on our lake. They have their 3500 sq. ft. summer homes beside each other and arrive in their personal 4 door helicopter. They have matching 32 ft. centre console boats with 3, 300 hp engines on the back. If this is your Utopia and I can have that sign me up. Or is it more like Everyone gets to eat a lot of rice, potatoes and chicken, a steak is a special treat that you get once a year, everyone lives in an 800 sq. ft. cabin and rides bicycles to get around most of the time because they get enough gas to drive their Toyota Corolla only once a month. No summer home, no boats, no snowmobiles, real basics of existence only. If this is your Utopia no thanks.... I'll put in the extra effort for the things I want and strike a balance of satisfaction in what I am able to acquire for my pleasuret compared to what I have to do to acquire those things. Edited January 11, 2017 by 02sled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 hours ago, 02sled said: That would only be part of the equation when they choose their profession. They also would want to be compensated appropriately in accordance with their skill level and the amount of education and training that goes into getting there. They are not totally altruistic. In general, doctors complete a 4-year undergraduate degree program, spend 4 years in medical school, and then complete 3-7 years of residency training before they are eligible for medical licensing. In your delusion they should go through all of that just to have the same lifestyle as the ditch digger. if you look at how much time docs take out of th workplace you really need to chase a high paying specialty for it to be worthwhile. But moto would be ok with students for life as an acceptable "job" his his utopian nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: I am trying very hard to make my kid understand that material items do not bring happiness. That shopping is not a hobby. Life has so much to offer when you look beyond a mall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, Boered said: I am trying very hard to make my kid understand that material items do not bring happiness. That shopping is not a hobby. Life has so much to offer when you look beyond a mall. Yes it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoughnut Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, Boered said: I am trying very hard to make my kid understand that material items do not bring happiness. That shopping is not a hobby. Life has so much to offer when you look beyond a mall. Oh bullshit, when a man goes shopping for any motorized toy, it brings happiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 5 hours ago, Highmark said: But it wouldn't be fair if one country had a larger UBI than others right? He is correct I've seen this lunacy discussed. "Here's a basic income to provide for your family, now go out and work." UBI is capitalism's too little too late response to the realization of its own inherent contradictions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 12, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 12, 2017 14 hours ago, motonoggin said: If you want to make the case of slave labor in other countries be my guest but comparing those places to here just makes you look retarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 12, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 12, 2017 11 hours ago, motonoggin said: UBI is capitalism's too little too late response to the realization of its own inherent contradictions The only places I hear any minor discussions about it is in Scandinavian countries. 250,000,000 American's not on SS. If EVERYONE gets a UBI check of $15k thats $3.75 Trillion on top of what is already collected or will you only pay UBI to certain people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 58 minutes ago, Highmark said: The only places I hear any minor discussions about it is in Scandinavian countries. 250,000,000 American's not on SS. If EVERYONE gets a UBI check of $15k thats $3.75 Trillion on top of what is already collected or will you only pay UBI to certain people. I'm not proposing it, I'm just telling you that it's coming. Elon Musk raised the question not too long ago as a response to the inevitable automation of almost all production. The completely imbalanced macroeconomic demand/supply equation demands it. As this imbalance increases, calls for UBI from capitalists who are terrified of pitchforks will increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 23 minutes ago, motonoggin said: I'm not proposing it, I'm just telling you that it's coming. Elon Musk raised the question not too long ago as a response to the inevitable automation of almost all production. The completely imbalanced macroeconomic demand/supply equation demands it. As this imbalance increases, calls for UBI from capitalists who are terrified of pitchforks will increase. It is already happening here in Canada as a pilot project to replace welfare. Bums seem to want it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Boered said: It is already happening here in Canada as a pilot project to replace welfare. Bums seem to want it... And the liberals will cheer when it happens. This is how liberals enable capitalism and continue the ride toward fascism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 12, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, motonoggin said: And the liberals will cheer when it happens. This is how liberals enable capitalism and continue the ride toward fascism. So how does your form of Communism stop technology from taking over the means of production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Highmark said: So how does your form of Communism stop technology from taking over the means of production? It doesn't. Eventually all production will be automated and very little human labor will be required to maintain the means of production. At that point we can transition to full luxury space communism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiSledder Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 19 hours ago, 02sled said: Yet you refuse to describe your vision of Utopia. Still waiting for your perception of communism. Why do you avoid it so much? So you said no one will want for anything in your fantasy land. Does that mean that Everyone can eat a fine steak whenever they want, drive around in a Cadillac, have a 3,000 sq. ft. home, a 2000 sq, ft. cottage, a few boats and snowmobiles. Actually there is a couple of brothers on our lake. They have their 3500 sq. ft. summer homes beside each other and arrive in their personal 4 door helicopter. They have matching 32 ft. centre console boats with 3, 300 hp engines on the back. If this is your Utopia and I can have that sign me up. Or is it more like Everyone gets to eat a lot of rice, potatoes and chicken, a steak is a special treat that you get once a year, everyone lives in an 800 sq. ft. cabin and rides bicycles to get around most of the time because they get enough gas to drive their Toyota Corolla only once a month. No summer home, no boats, no snowmobiles, real basics of existence only. If this is your Utopia no thanks.... I'll put in the extra effort for the things I want and strike a balance of satisfaction in what I am able to acquire for my pleasuret compared to what I have to do to acquire those things. You keep saying your Communist Utopia would be wonderful but refuse to describe it. I asked the question above but you just skipped by. Is that because you want to avoid how bleak life would be. I ask again... just a high level description of life in your Utopia. Or are you afraid to admit how lack luster it would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 12, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: It doesn't. Eventually all production will be automated and very little human labor will be required to maintain the means of production. At that point we can transition to full luxury space communism. So the machines design and make the machines that make the products. Sounds like Skynet to me. We better make sure it doesn't become self aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 moto probably believes we are headed toward Soylent Green. If you can remember it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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