xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 8 minutes ago, SnowRider said: I disagree. The trend lines are good now - unemployment, stock market, consecutive months of job creation, annual budget deficit is going down, etc. The problem for Dump is the tea party backed R's.....cut taxes and increase military spending, infrastructure spending all while stadifyung the tea party position of the deficit. Is the sequester no longer an issue for the far right? Can the promises be fulfilled without a significant spike in the deficit? And are his plans going to outperform and outpace the last 4 years? All while addressing HC that's going to protect the profits within it...... I am talking more perception rather than actual results. That is the battle he is fighting now. Until he can change the perception of who he is as POTUS to those on the left, it won't matter what he does. 6 minutes ago, SnowRider said: And we both know the first ones who are going to get fucked by the unfulfilled promises are those making under 30K/year who voted for him Because most of the manufacturing jobs he's promised ain't coming back. I agree. I don't think they are coming back, but he can slow the river enough to claim he fulfilled his promises. Are you willing to give Trump a clean slate until he has proven otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: I don't think they will touch roe v wade or equal rights. ACA will go obviously. But I have a feeling social issues won't even get a second look. If he and the R's don't play with social issues, they would be very smart. Concentrate on business. Every small gain (even the smallest) will be hailed by the right as genius and a fulfilled obligation. A couple jobs here and a couple there is all they need. Just enough to argue that the trend arrow is going the opposite (positive) direction. When you look at it objectively, there is very little they need to do to claim victory. so like i said. continue riding the wave of progress the dems started, and assume unemployment and market stats are real now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, SnowRider said: And we both know the first ones who are going to get fucked by the unfulfilled promises are those making under 30K/year who voted for him Because most of the manufacturing jobs he's promised ain't coming back. And why did those jobs leave during 8 years of a democrat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 7 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: so like i said. continue riding the wave of progress the dems started, and assume unemployment and market stats are real now Pretty much as far as perspective goes, but I think he has and deserves the opportunity to try to right some issues in our economy. I am not in the group that thinks the economy is in the shitter, but I do think it can do better. Trying something new might not be the worst possible thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted November 11, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: I am talking more perception rather than actual results. That is the battle he is fighting now. Until he can change the perception of who he is as POTUS to those on the left, it won't matter what he does. I agree. I don't think they are coming back, but he can slow the river enough to claim he fulfilled his promises. Are you willing to give Trump a clean slate until he has proven otherwise? I'm already giving him a clean slate....and on here I'm holding him to the same standard as many did Obama and Hillary plus I'll point out the hypocrisy of their rhetoric. Hence the swamp thread id rather roll the dice with Dump than have a known in Pence. And like I've said - I hope they fulfill many of their promises - build a wall, take rights away, Buddy up with Putin, send troops to fight ISIS....etc......it's time the minority of voters who are governing us get what they wish for and the complacency of the majority is provoked. . Edited November 11, 2016 by SnowRider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, racer254 said: And why did those jobs leave during 8 years of a democrat? Those jobs were leaving well before Obama. Don't be fooled into that right wing rhetoric. 6 minutes ago, SnowRider said: I'm already giving him a clean slate....and on here I'm holding him to the same standard as many did Obama and Hillary plus I'll point out the hypocrisy of their rhetoric. Hence the swamp thread id rather roll the dice with Dump than have a known in Pence. And like I've said - I hope they fulfill many of their promises - build a wall, take rights away, Buddy up with Putin, send troops to fight ISIS....etc......it's time the minority of voters who are governing is get what they wish foraged the complacency of the majority is prodded. Hoping for failure to achieve what you want is probably the most weak argument you have ever made on here. Securing the border is not a bad thing, how you deal with those here can be a bad thing. Buddying up with Russia and not making them an enemy is not a bad thing, pandering to what is best for them and not us can be. Destroying ISIS is not a bad thing, how we go about it can be. That is where you are way off base. There is a path forward with what he wants, the clean slate is there to prevent judgement before he tries/does any of that. You seem to be already hoping for the demise. That is sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, SnowRider said: I'm already giving him a clean slate....and on here I'm holding him to the same standard as many did Obama and Hillary plus I'll point out the hypocrisy of their rhetoric. Hence the swamp thread id rather roll the dice with Dump than have a known in Pence. And like I've said - I hope they fulfill many of their promises - build a wall, take rights away, Buddy up with Putin, send troops to fight ISIS....etc......it's time the minority of voters who are governing us get what they wish for and the complacency of the majority is provoked. . Just STFU already. You're rhetoric is why Trump is where he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Just now, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: Those jobs were leaving well before Obama. Don't be fooled into that right wing rhetoric. Hoping for failure to achieve what you want is probably the most weak argument you have ever made on here. Securing the border is not a bad thing, how you deal with those here can be a bad thing. Buddying up with Russia and not making them an enemy is not a bad thing, pandering to what is best for them and not us can be. Destroying ISIS is not a bad thing, how we go about it can be. That is where you are way off base. There is a path forward with what he wants, the clean slate is there to prevent judgement before he tries/does any of that. You seem to be already hoping for the demise. That is sad. Obama didn't change anything as far as jobs go. Trump has the opportunity to turn the ship. He will have 2 years, then who knows. I hope the current batch of lawmakers and him don't waste it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 6 minutes ago, racer254 said: Just STFU already. You're rhetoric is why Trump is where he is. Yep...that fucking troll has no humility or shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted November 11, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted November 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: Those jobs were leaving well before Obama. Don't be fooled into that right wing rhetoric. Hoping for failure to achieve what you want is probably the most weak argument you have ever made on here. Securing the border is not a bad thing, how you deal with those here can be a bad thing. Buddying up with Russia and not making them an enemy is not a bad thing, pandering to what is best for them and not us can be. Destroying ISIS is not a bad thing, how we go about it can be. That is where you are way off base. There is a path forward with what he wants, the clean slate is there to prevent judgement before he tries/does any of that. You seem to be already hoping for the demise. That is sad. I don't hope for failure. Foreign policy issues will require a team effort and a balancing act. What I do know - is cutting taxes doesn't trickle to the sub 30k crowd who voted for him. And the last 8 years and current trajectory of the economy are real good. Progress has been made in regards to equality. So the real question is - did he run a campaign by lying to his constituents or his he going to follow through with his campaign promises? Truth is I'm hopeful just as you are......but I adamently supported the current path we are on in many aspects while the trepidation from people like you has helped create a significant unknown for both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted November 11, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted November 11, 2016 Trump has just won the Presidency against all odds and now the resident experts are cricizing his VP choice....you guys are so precious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Just now, Zambroski said: Yep...that fucking troll has no humility or shame. It is sickening. The same rhetoric day in and day out with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, SnowRider said: I don't hope for failure. Foreign policy issues will require a team effort and a balancing act. What I do know - is cutting taxes doesn't trickle to the sub 30k crowd who voted for him. And the last 8 years and current trajectory of the economy are real good. Progress has been made in regards to equality. So the real question is - did he run a campaign by lying to his constituents or his he going to follow through with his campaign promises? Truth is I'm hopeful just as you are......but I adamently supported the current path we are on in many aspects while the trepidation from people like you has helped create a significant unknown for both sides. I do have trepidation about the path we were on. I don't think it was overall bad, but I still thought there was an uneasiness to it. Basically I think we could have done better. I think we were trending up under Obama, I just want to trend up faster. 5 minutes ago, Biggie Smails said: Trump has just won the Presidency against all odds and now the resident experts are cricizing his VP choice....you guys are so precious. Not exactly. I just don't think Pence was anything but someone to galvanize the base. I think it was a great choice for an election, but not so much for a functioning VP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Just now, Biggie Smails said: Trump has just won the Presidency against all odds and now the resident experts are cricizing his VP choice....you guys are so precious. It's hilarious. Especially when democrats are trying to explain how he should go about his first term Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted November 11, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted November 11, 2016 Just now, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: I do have trepidation about the path we were on. I don't think it was overall bad, but I still thought there was an uneasiness to it. Basically I think we could have done better. I think we were trending up under Obama, I just want to trend up faster. Not exactly. I just don't think Pence was anything but someone to galvanize the base. I think it was a great choice for an election, but not so much for a functioning VP. Then he has done his job already...anything above and beyond is gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 20 minutes ago, racer254 said: And why did those jobs leave during 8 years of a democrat? this is why you're considered an idiot by both sides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, Biggie Smails said: Then he has done his job already...anything above and beyond is gravy. I suppose. I would prefer a VP who isn't another Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Snoslinger said: this is why you're considered an idiot by both sides You have been wrong for the last 6 years of elections. I think we have all seen your idiocy, kneeshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1R9sledder Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 18 minutes ago, SnowRider said: I'm already giving him a clean slate....and on here I'm holding him to the same standard as many did Obama and Hillary plus I'll point out the hypocrisy of their rhetoric. Hence the swamp thread id rather roll the dice with Dump than have a known in Pence. And like I've said - I hope they fulfill many of their promises - build a wall, take rights away, Buddy up with Putin, send troops to fight ISIS....etc......it's time the minority of voters who are governing us get what they wish for and the complacency of the majority is provoked. . 2 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: I suppose. I would prefer a VP who isn't another Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted November 11, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 minute ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: I do have trepidation about the path we were on. I don't think it was overall bad, but I still thought there was an uneasiness to it. Basically I think we could have done better. I think we were trending up under Obama, I just want to trend up faster. Not exactly. I just don't think Pence was anything but someone to galvanize the base. I think it was a great choice for an election, but not so much for a functioning VP. We can revisit the rate and trajectory of the trend in the future. All I know is cutting taxes and increased spending doesn't add up to tea party backed sequesture. My point is his formula - lower taxes, increase military spending and promising the moon to his constituents is one we've seen before and it failed. Can you point out what's different this time? We are outpacing the global economy - the rate of growth and the trajectory is relative - and I'm satisfied where we are today. Low,gas prices, low interest rates, decent stock market.....let's not forget 2008-09...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 minute ago, SnowRider said: We can revisit the rate and trajectory of the trend in the future. All I know is cutting taxes and increased spending doesn't add up to tea party backed sequesture. My point is his formula - lower taxes, increase military spending and promising the moon to his constituents is one we've seen before and it failed. Can you point out what's different this time? We are outpacing the global economy - the rate of growth and the trajectory is relative - and I'm satisfied where we are today. Low,gas prices, low interest rates, decent stock market.....let's not forget 2008-09...... No to this. And I don't think Obama had anything to do with Low,gas prices, low interest rates, decent stock market.. Except the fact that his policies have caused push back so hard that this happened. Like how gun sales improve when he talks about stricter gun laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, racer254 said: You have been wrong for the last 6 years of elections. I think we have all seen your idiocy, kneeshot whaaaaat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, racer254 said: No to this. And I don't think Obama had anything to do with Low,gas prices, low interest rates, decent stock market.. Except the fact that his policies have caused push back so hard that this happened. Like how gun sales improve when he talks about stricter gun laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, SnowRider said: We can revisit the rate and trajectory of the trend in the future. All I know is cutting taxes and increased spending doesn't add up to tea party backed sequesture. My point is his formula - lower taxes, increase military spending and promising the moon to his constituents is one we've seen before and it failed. Can you point out what's different this time? We are outpacing the global economy - the rate of growth and the trajectory is relative - and I'm satisfied where we are today. Low,gas prices, low interest rates, decent stock market.....let's not forget 2008-09...... Interest rates are too low right now to be honest. If we are doing so well, they have no business being that low. It takes away any of their power during a downtick. If the economy does go down, and you can't drop rates to stimulate capital investment it will be a problem. I like gas this low, I really like the market right now, but I worry about what happens when the economy follows the cyclical path that it always does and the rates are this low. What stirs us out of the down cycle? I also am for floating tax rates to be honest. When the economy is strong, you build your rainy day fund with higher taxes, but when it is low you drop those taxes to encourage spending. We seem to be more interested in election based taxes and rates. Drop taxes and rates when we need a vote, rather than doing so in correlation with the business cycle. That is where politics really drops the ball. That being said, Obama deserves some credit for how well the market bounced back from the Great Recession. Can always do better, but we are not struggling that is for sure. Edited November 11, 2016 by xtralettucetomatoe580 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Snoslinger said: whaaaaat? Poor fella, you can figure it out. 2010 and on, what happened to your precious democrats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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