D&D Performance

[Rigid1]

D&D is a good shop, and they do good work, I really don't think anyone has tested a broke in sidewinder/T-cat yet,  kinda hard to get 5,000 miles in on a sled over the summer..smh

[f7ben]

Just now, Rigid1 said:

D&D is a good shop, and they do good work, I really don't think anyone has tested a broke in sidewinder/T-cat yet,  kinda hard to get 5,000 miles in on a sled over the summer..smh

Something has changed at D&D in recent times ....its obvious. As was mentioned on HCS it may have to do with Glen leaving

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, f7ben said:

I was just talking to Jim on the phone last night

I think that man will square you and that sled away nicely.  

[f7ben]

4 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

I think that man will square you and that sled away nicely.  

too bad about his needing surgery

Edited October 20, 2016 by f7ben

[Legend]

Kelsey has some good stuff. 

But many times he doesn't know how to shut the hell up, kinda like trump...

Also Kelsey is correct in the poo 800 design flaw is not fixed. Its gotten many bandaids put over it, but its still a design flaw. Maybe the latest set of bandaids will make it last long enough for most people. 

Of course we are starting to see the 800ho motor go down though. My buds went down with 375 miles on it.

[f7ben]

2 minutes ago, Legend said:

Kelsey has some good stuff. 

But many times he doesn't know how to shut the hell up, kinda like trump...

Also Kelsey is correct in the poo 800 design flaw is not fixed. Its gotten many bandaids put over it, but its still a design flaw. Maybe the latest set of bandaids will make it last long enough for most people. 

Of course we are starting to see the 800ho motor go down though. My buds went down with 375 miles on it.

his drop in kit looks worth it just for the reduction in weight of the pistons and having them matched etc. Seems he is changing port timing on his rev 2 kit as it includes 2 base gaskets instead of 1.

[Legend]

BTW all the best tuners and wrenches left HCS a long time ago. 

The rest just throw parts at shit.

[Wildcat]

7 minutes ago, f7ben said:

too bad about his needing surgery

Booooooo

[Wildcat]

8 minutes ago, Legend said:

Kelsey has some good stuff. 

But many times he doesn't know how to shut the hell up, kinda like trump...

Also Kelsey is correct in the poo 800 design flaw is not fixed. Its gotten many bandaids put over it, but its still a design flaw. Maybe the latest set of bandaids will make it last long enough for most people. 

Of course we are starting to see the 800ho motor go down though. My buds went down with 375 miles on it.

X2 exactly

[Legend]

6 minutes ago, f7ben said:

his drop in kit looks worth it just for the reduction in weight of the pistons and having them matched etc. Seems he is changing port timing on his rev 2 kit as it includes 2 base gaskets instead of 1.

We have measured, weighed, and used his piston kits. They are top notch. 

Although when he used Wossner pistons, they were slightly heavier than the Wiaeco's. But they were both within 1 gram of each other. Meaning each piston, not brand to brand. I think the wossners were 10 or so grams heavier. The wisecos were right at 505 grams with pins.

 

We don't just buy shit and throw it in, everything gets precisely perfected. We travel 1200 miles and spent at least $1000 per trip to the mountains. We go through the sleds with a fine tooth comb before every trip. Many times we tear engines down to nothing just to measure in-between trips. A failure in the mtns sucks. 

Edited October 20, 2016 by Legend

[Legend]

8 minutes ago, f7ben said:

his drop in kit looks worth it just for the reduction in weight of the pistons and having them matched etc. Seems he is changing port timing on his rev 2 kit as it includes 2 base gaskets instead of 1.

I am not a fan of the raising of the cylinders. By any shop.

[Wildcat]

Who is going to start a Debate thread already.......

[Fireball 440]

2 hours ago, f7ben said:

I'll probably just turbo the 600 and be done with it

There's been a turbo 600 REV on duluth craigslist for a few months now.

[SVT MXZ XRS]

3 hours ago, f7ben said:

I didnt know Erich left Bikeman and now Joey is in charge. Erich started SSI performance now

Didn't know that either.  

3 hours ago, Anler said:

Yeah I've heard alot of bad shit about bikeman.

I've read MANY threads about how shitty Bikeman is and what a fucking asshole and POS he is. I also know someone who had problems with him.  Not gonna mention any names but he's a paid advertiser on HCS and someone who I've ridden with in the past. 

2 hours ago, Wildcat said:

Ive got him on ignore I like seeing everyone own him but its hard to even read his shit at all without cringing.

His face memes are the best.

I need a picture of Maine Cunt and Cockslinger so I can chop them with Snowbeavis

2 hours ago, f7ben said:

Funny you claim to have had a stock turbo achieve speeds that guys with 100 hp more cant run ...I ran my sleds on a trail...and had fun...and never lied about how fast they went

2 hours ago, f7ben said:

not me ....I used to bang pretty good but never with a fart can

Guilty of the pipe and can on my '01 MXZ800   Also a 6" riser, and back pack on my 440x Rev (the didn't have a trunk)   But never a go pro , or mohawk on my helmet

[Sal Rosenberg]

5 hours ago, f7ben said:

yup ...

mohawk helmet...check

gopro for christmas - check

mbrp can on 2001 mxz 700 - check

backpack - check

8" riser so they can stand all the time - check

 

Pure fucking faggotry

 

You forgot the little plastic shovel sticking out of the backpack

[SVT MXZ XRS]

You probably still have a shovel sticking out of your ass for getting mouthy  

[1jkw]

2 hours ago, Legend said:

Kelsey has some good stuff. 

But many times he doesn't know how to shut the hell up, kinda like trump...

Also Kelsey is correct in the poo 800 design flaw is not fixed. Its gotten many bandaids put over it, but its still a design flaw. Maybe the latest set of bandaids will make it last long enough for most people. 

Of course we are starting to see the 800ho motor go down though. My buds went down with 375 miles on it.

The best fix is to change over to carbs. lots of guys run those engines in water cross sleds with carbs they make great power and are durable because of the cold gas charge underneath the piston to keep the pistons cool.

[Sleepr2]

3 hours ago, f7ben said:

Funny you claim to have had a stock turbo achieve speeds that guys with 100 hp more cant run ...I ran my sleds on a trail...and had fun...and never lied about how fast they went

What races dd Silver foot compete in?

[Kev144]

9 hours ago, SVT Renegade XRS said:

Didn't know that either.  

I've read MANY threads about how shitty Bikeman is and what a fucking asshole and POS he is. I also know someone who had problems with him.  Not gonna mention any names but he's a paid advertiser on HCS and someone who I've ridden with in the past. 

I need a picture of Maine Cunt and Cockslinger so I can chop them with Snowbeavis

Guilty of the pipe and can on my '01 MXZ800   Also a 6" riser, and back pack on my 440x Rev (the didn't have a trunk)   But never a go pro , or mohawk on my helmet

So you were once a Faggot?  or still are?? 

[Legend]

9 hours ago, 1jkw said:

The best fix is to change over to carbs. lots of guys run those engines in water cross sleds with carbs they make great power and are durable because of the cold gas charge underneath the piston to keep the pistons cool.

I agree that fuel in the bottom end is a great thing, for every possible reason except emissions. 

But it's still a bandaid on the poo engines.  The pistons wear out so fast because they are unsupported at bottom dead center (BDC). 

Fix that and the engines will be as good as any Etec or Suzuki. 

[1jkw]

48 minutes ago, Legend said:

I agree that fuel in the bottom end is a great thing, for every possible reason except emissions. 

But it's still a bandaid on the poo engines.  The pistons wear out so fast because they are unsupported at bottom dead center (BDC). 

Fix that and the engines will be as good as any Etec or Suzuki. 

I thought one fix kit used Suzuki pistons, could be wrong, anyway the guys that have run carbs. seem to not have the issue as the bottoms of the pistons are kept cool by the fuel air charge and they certainly won't pass todays emission standards.

[Legend]

54 minutes ago, 1jkw said:

I thought one fix kit used Suzuki pistons, could be wrong, anyway the guys that have run carbs. seem to not have the issue as the bottoms of the pistons are kept cool by the fuel air charge and they certainly won't pass todays emission standards.

Yes, because they are better Pistons. But new Pistons cant fix the design flaw.

 

The guys that have to knowledge and skill to replace the CFI with carbs, are guys that are going through the engines and making sure they are proactive on repairs before it becomes a shitshow. If you are willing to spend the time and money to do this, you are mostly likely a person who replaces Pistons before they fail and wreck all kinds of stuff. 

 

My mtn  sleds usually get Pistons replaced around 1500 miles. The skirts are just simply collapsed to far for me to trust by then. I have a set of Wossner Pistons in one that are right around 1300 miles. I'll be measuring them this fall. It will be interesting to see how much they collapsed.

My trail sled Pistons lasted 2700 miles before I stopped trusting them. They might have made it to 5000 or more, but I took it apart to check the health of the engine. They had .09 cylinder to piston clearance. That's too much for me.

 

Probably 90% of people don't have the know how, or motivation to check this. They just keep running the engine until it fails. That's just not how we do it. $200 or so now, or $1000+ later especially if you have to pay to have it done.  

 

I check crankshafts every year as well. Though, I do believe that Polaris cranks are very stout. At least the fugi cranks. I have a mape crank that was .023 out of round before last year. I haven't measured it this year yet. If it's any more than it was last year, it's coming out. 

 

Edited October 20, 2016 by Legend

[1jkw]

14 minutes ago, Legend said:

Yes, because they are better Pistons. But new Pistons cant fix the design flaw.

 

The guys that have to knowledge and skill to replace the CFI with carbs, are guys that are going through the engines and making sure they are proactive on repairs before it becomes a shitshow. If you are willing to spend the time and money to do this, you are mostly likely a person who replaces Pistons before they fail and wreck all kinds of stuff. 

 

My mtn  sleds usually get Pistons replaced around 1500 miles. The skirts are just simply collapsed to far for me to trust by then. I have a set of Wossner Pistons in one that are right around 1300 miles. I'll be measuring them this fall. It will be interesting to see how much they collapsed.

My trail sled Pistons lasted 2700 miles before I stopped trusting them. They might have made it to 5000 or more, but I took it apart to check the health of the engine. They had .09 cylinder to piston clearance. That's too much for me.

 

Probably 90% of people don't have the know how, or motivation to check this. They just keep running the engine until it fails. That's just not how we do it. $200 or so now, or $1000+ later especially if you have to pay to have it done.  

 

I check crankshafts every year as well. Though, I do believe that Polaris cranks are very stout. At least the fugi cranks. I have a mape crank that was .023 out of round before last year. I haven't measured it this year yet. If it's any more than it was last year, it's coming out. 

 

I thought the design flaw was lack of cooling under the piston and the dome area of the piston not being thick enough.

I talked to several water cross guys who had motors built using carbs as well as a few who used carbed engines in the iqrs and they say they are bullet proof.

I went with the 800 xcr triple in my iqr for the reliability, dirty engines not epa compliant are far more reliable.

[Legend]

No, the piston at BDC is unsupported. 

Take a piston and put it in a cylinder on a work bench. At BDC, the piston is at its lowest point in the cylinder. This is also the point at which the intake and boost ports are fully uncovered. So therefore we know exactly the lowest point of the piston in the cylinder. 

If you set the cylinder top up on the bench, the cylinder skirts are what is touching the bench. Drop a piston in from the top. The piston skirts will touch the bench when it drops down. So now the piston skirts and cylinder skirts are even and down the exact same length. But look into the cylinder. You will see the intake and boost ports are not fully uncovered. 

So you pick up the cylinder until the ports are fully uncovered. You will have to pick up the cylinder 5/8 of an inch. So now the ports are uncovered, but the bottom 5/8" of the piston is outside of the cylinder, and unsupported. 

This causes the piston to be loose. On the upstroke of the piston, the piston skirt on the intake side is forced against the cylinder skirt. Here is where Indy Dan says its a rod ratio problem. But is it? No, because the rod ratio is the same as the Suzuki 800, probably the best 800 twin ever built. Indy Dan also does some serious welding of supports on the intake cylinder skirt to strengthen it.

But companies that use the spacer at the bottom also change the wrist pin location so the piston isn't dropping even further down past the cylinder skirts. But what they are doing is lessening the rod ratio, which helps the force against the intake cylinder skirt. They cannot make the piston shorter because at TDC the ports will become uncovered at the bottom of the piston. So this is a bandaid. But it helps. And as a side effect is also creates more case volume which forces more air and psi into the cylinder. More power. Not a ton, but some. 

 

The best and 100% proper fool proof way to fix it is to make the engine taller, by lengthening the cylinder skirts. But that cannot be done easily because the cylinder skirts cannot be lengthened any lower. Any lower and they would contact the crankshaft.

So polaris would have to totally redesign the engine. Polaris went all in in the mid 2000s on this design for compactness, and light weight. Yeah, the poo engines are significantly smaller and lighter that doo or cat. And at first, the poo design worked out good, because they only used the 600 and 700 cfi. The 6 and 7 cfi suffer the same flaw. But the thing that saves those engines is the smaller pistons. Less weight, less force against the intake cylinder skirt. My brother has a IQ 600 that had severely collapsed piston skirts, and the piston rocked so much, it knife edged the top of the piston. But it made it to 6500 miles before it lost so much compression it got really slow. 

 

To be continued.....

I will finish this later, I gotta go now.

[SVT MXZ XRS]

4 hours ago, Kev144 said:

So you were once a Faggot?  or still are?? 

Faggot is YOU.