Zambroski Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, MiSledder said: Nope! chisel at the real issue, not more gun laws Guns are easier to deal with (I guess) than our societal problems. Besides, half this country is happy to raise their children as panty wasted victims. So...... 2 minutes ago, Highmark said: The reality is threats should be prosecuted more than they are. Agreed. Hard to police social media though. Real hard. But again, this last nut-job was identified more than a dozen times as a problem...and nada was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Highmark said: I'd prefer to keep in on the state level where the states can share info. I don't really want it a requirement for private sales I just wouldn't do it to protect my own ass. I would concede on it if would stop there but it NEVER will. Private to private sale documentation must happen. There is no reason not to. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 20, 2018 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, NaturallyAspirated said: Private to private sale documentation must happen. There is no reason not to. Neal Like I said, I can concede on this. Take it to your local FFL. They are everywhere. $20 done deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, Highmark said: Like I said, I can concede on this. Take it to your local FFL. They are everywhere. $20 done deal. No need with federal cards. No charge. FFL requires firearm information, federal exchange ID does not. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 20, 2018 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, NaturallyAspirated said: No need with federal cards. No charge. FFL requires firearm information, federal exchange ID does not. Neal So basically a card like my state permit? Why not just keep it state enforced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted February 20, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said: No need with federal cards. No charge. FFL requires firearm information, federal exchange ID does not. Neal So will records of the transfer be destroyed as they are now? Do you keep it ? Does the buyer keep it? Does the gvmt keep it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, steve from amherst said: So will records of the transfer be destroyed as they are now? Do you keep it ? Does the buyer keep it? Does the gvmt keep it? No, they should not be destroyed, the should be logged and kept. The buyers and sellers are free to keep a copy of the exchange form, sure. Yes, the government keeps it. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted February 20, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 And what is to keep some POS reporter from filing a FOIA request for the list to make public? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, steve from amherst said: And what is to keep some POS reporter from filing a FOIA request for the list to make public? Same thing that happens now with BATF 4473 FOIA requests: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/freedom-information-act-foia Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted February 20, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Same thing that happens now with BATF 4473 FOIA requests: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/freedom-information-act-foia Neal And that is why the the gvmts copy of the 4473 has to be destroyed with 48 hrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, Highmark said: So basically a card like my state permit? Why not just keep it state enforced? Because we need universality across state lines, this offers documentation of cross state exchanges. You can do it state to state, but then it would simply be a fiat declaration of the federal government making states pay for the cards and processes, as the definition that the cards would fall under would be so strict. It would be in essence a federal exchange ID card. The states would also log that information in addition to the federal government. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 20, 2018 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, NaturallyAspirated said: Because we need universality across state lines, this offers documentation of cross state exchanges. You can do it state to state, but then it would simply be a fiat declaration of the federal government making states pay for the cards and processes, as the definition that the cards would fall under would be so strict. It would be in essence a federal exchange ID card. The states would also log that information in addition to the federal government. Neal I'd go for Federal if right to carry laws then became national as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted February 20, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, Highmark said: I'd go for Federal if right to carry laws then became national as well. May be closer then you think. Already passed the house , waiting for a senate vote. I would not be surprised if they added some background check requirements to it. Then when dems don't vote for it blame dems for expanded BC checks not passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, steve from amherst said: And that is why the the gvmts copy of the 4473 has to be destroyed with 48 hrs. The ATF doesn't keep 4473s because it has a database that contains all of the 4473 information (obviously not called a 4473 form). The only destruction of 4473 forms is when the ATF requests a copy from the FFL, upon which the ATF has 48 hours to enter the 4473 data into their database. The same goes for data harvested from standard FFL inspections, wherein the BATF can photograph the 4473 log book and then enter the data within the window. Also any FFL that goes out of business must surrender the previous 20 years of 4473 data to BATF, upon which they can enter it into the database. There are also triggers for quick rifle purchases (2+ rifles in a certain time window of a few days I believe) that is a form the FFL fills out and sends into BATF. Neal Edited February 20, 2018 by NaturallyAspirated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 50 minutes ago, Highmark said: Then its dead in the water. That will never happen in this country. Not until old white guys lose control of congress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Highmark said: I'd go for Federal if right to carry laws then became national as well. I concur, the exchange card can be used as a carry permit. That would impose a bit more for initial application requirements (x number of training hours, ect.) Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted February 20, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, NaturallyAspirated said: The ATF doesn't keep 4473s because it has a database that contains all of the 4473 information (obviously not called a 4473 form). The only destruction of 4473 forms is when the ATF requests a copy from the FFL, upon which the ATF has 48 hours to enter the 4473 data into their database. There are also triggers for quick rifle purchases (2+ rifles in a certain time window of a few days I believe) that is a form the FFL fills out and sends into BATF. Neal No, the gun dealer must keep it forever. If he goes out of business only then does he turn the records over to the atf. As long as he is in business and the gun isn't used in a crime the ATF dosnt even know the transfer took place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, steve from amherst said: No, the gun dealer must keep it forever. If he goes out of business only then does he turn the records over to the atf. As long as he is in business and the gun isn't used in a crime the ATF dosnt even know the transfer took place. Incorrect, 4473 data can be destroyed after 20 years by the FFL. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted February 20, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Incorrect, 4473 data can be destroyed after 20 years by the FFL. Neal correct, 20 yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted February 20, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, MiSledder said: Bi annual there ya go, make owning a gun a giant PIA for the paw abiding people, Nope! no gun laws what so ever, Start looking at the real issue, drugs is a great place to start Don’t you take Adderral that is not prescribed to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted February 20, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Private to private sale documentation must happen. There is no reason not to. Neal Weird because a few of the experts here and next door said there is no loophole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, steve from amherst said: correct, 20 yrs. Indeed. I looked into getting FFL. PITA. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted February 20, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, NaturallyAspirated said: Indeed. I looked into getting FFL. PITA. Neal Need a storefront now. Although I have seen a few pop up for 6 months , then close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Jimmy Snacks said: Weird because a few of the experts here and next door said there is no loophole. Well the loophole does have a somewhat bad name. I believe many/most of the gun show dealers are FFL, and some shows require FFL to set up display. It doesn't stop private to private sales are the gun show however. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted February 20, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Indeed. I looked into getting FFL. PITA. Neal Bud of mines FIL sold em out of his house for 40 yrs. Bout 10 yrs ago they told him " have a sale by yrs end because unless you open a storefront , your closed on 12/30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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