DIVIDED AMERICA: Town and country offer differing realities

[Capt.Storm]

12 minutes ago, Mainecat said:

Boston is the same way. Many large corps are choosing to have their employees work from home to save $$ on leasing prime real estate in the larger cities like Boston and Chicago. Most of the construction is high end condos and retail. You know the 1-4 million dollar ones the liberals are buying buy saving up all the food stamps for 30+ years and finally cashing them in on penthouses, Mercedes and cases of Colt 45

That's a few jobs building it all but prolly not that many once the buildings are finished.

[Mileage Psycho]

5 minutes ago, Capt.Storm said:

That's a few jobs building it all but prolly not that many once the buildings are finished.

There is easily 4,000,000 SF of office space being built, along with several hotels, and many hi-rise condos, the long term jobs will be in the thousands, the units at 400 W. Huron are starting $1.3M to $2.15M and you have to think all people have a good paying job somewhere in the city

[Capt.Storm]

2 minutes ago, Mileage Psycho said:

There is easily 4,000,000 SF of office space being built, along with several hotels, and many hi-rise condos, the long term jobs will be in the thousands, the units at 400 W. Huron are starting $1.3M to $2.15M and you have to think all people have a good paying job somewhere in the city

Yeah..I guess I would like to see some kind of manufacturing ..but hey let the Chinese have at it..we'll just do the paper work here.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Capt.Storm

[Mainecat]

1 hour ago, Mileage Psycho said:

There is easily 4,000,000 SF of office space being built, along with several hotels, and many hi-rise condos, the long term jobs will be in the thousands, the units at 400 W. Huron are starting $1.3M to $2.15M and you have to think all people have a good paying job somewhere in the city

Most of the largest condos are going to foreigners. Since the increase of flights from the United Arab Emerites to Logan real estate is being snapped up. No middle class people live in Boston proper. Just the very wealthy and very poor.

[01mxz800]

8 hours ago, Capt.Storm said:

It's not unusual for people in upstate ny to drive 40-50 miles one way for work in the cities.

I drive 7 miles make $25hr but spend 13hrs in a truck in upstate NY

[Capt.Storm]

4 minutes ago, 01mxz800 said:

I drive 7 miles make $25hr but spend 13hrs in a truck in upstate NY

Weren't you driving for a recycling company or something like that?

[Anler]

On 7/5/2016 at 7:23 AM, GGNHL said:

 

Living in a rural area is awesome if you can make decent money. Southern Maine isn't rural to me where I grew up, but to most people in southern NH, eastern Mass, CT, etc. it's the boonies and a vacation destination. $100k household income puts you in the top 10% of households and real estate is relatively cheap for the northeast. The problem is with mills closing up here not many people can make that kind of money and there arent a ton of white collar jobs that would draw in younger folks who got a worthwhile degree. 

 

That being said, I couldn't imagine being stuck in the rat race in a major urban center then fleeing to the country every weekend or vacation I ever took so I, and many other rural residents, sacrifice to be able to live in a rural area....

My parents moved from rural Illinois to the Chicago area when I was 3. Both of their families still live there. I spent many summers there growing up. Let me tell you, living and growing up in an urban area has far more opportunity than rural and I thank God my parents didn't raise me in that rural shithole. 

The other thing I have noticed about small town people is their small mindedness. They can't imagine anything outside of their puny microcosm of reality and the big city scares them to death. I would never want to be like that.

[racer254]

3 minutes ago, Anler said:

My parents moved from rural Illinois to the Chicago area when I was 3. Both of their families still live there. I spent many summers there growing up. Let me tell you, living and growing up in an urban area has far more opportunity than rural and I thank God my parents didn't raise me in that rural shithole. 

The other thing I have noticed about small town people is their small mindedness. They can't imagine anything outside of their puny microcosm of reality and the big city scares them to death. I would never want to be like that.

It has been nice to have the opportunity to live in both rural and urban areas, it opens up the mind.  When it was all said and done, I decided I liked living in a rural area better, and my conservative views never changed. 

[GGNHL]

44 minutes ago, Anler said:

My parents moved from rural Illinois to the Chicago area when I was 3. Both of their families still live there. I spent many summers there growing up. Let me tell you, living and growing up in an urban area has far more opportunity than rural and I thank God my parents didn't raise me in that rural shithole. 

The other thing I have noticed about small town people is their small mindedness. They can't imagine anything outside of their puny microcosm of reality and the big city scares them to death. I would never want to be like that.

 

To be fair many urban residents are completely oblivious to rural areas and the natural environment outside of their concrete jungle as well. You'd be surprised at the number of people who don't think trees grow back on their own after being cut... Idiots are going to be idiots whether they're in the city or whether theyre in east Bumfuck. You're just more likely to see more intelligent people in a city depending on the area you visit as they tend to congregate in certain areas.

 

Opprotunities for career advancement, earning power, etc. mean nothing if you're miserable. I'd honestly rather kill myself than be trapped in a concrete jungle or endless sea of subdivisions. Cities are fun to visit once in a while for fine dining, seeing a show at the theatre, etc. but I would never want my future children to grow up in one.

[Mainecat]

1 hour ago, GGNHL said:

 

To be fair many urban residents are completely oblivious to rural areas and the natural environment outside of their concrete jungle as well. You'd be surprised at the number of people who don't think trees grow back on their own after being cut... Idiots are going to be idiots whether they're in the city or whether theyre in east Bumfuck. You're just more likely to see more intelligent people in a city depending on the area you visit as they tend to congregate in certain areas.

 

Opprotunities for career advancement, earning power, etc. mean nothing if you're miserable. I'd honestly rather kill myself than be trapped in a concrete jungle or endless sea of subdivisions. Cities are fun to visit once in a while for fine dining, seeing a show at the theatre, etc. but I would never want my future children to grow up in one.

Yet you moved to socialist city because you could earn a living. Check

[GGNHL]

6 minutes ago, Mainecat said:

Yet you moved to socialist city because you could earn a living. Check

I'll ask your opinion on the geography of Maine the same time I do on how to raise a child.

Commuting from my current rental on 60 acres of woodland to a city of 18k isn't what most people in your area would consider urban living.

 

I could have made a living back home in the forest products industry too just like all my buds who have homes, newer vehicles, sleds, etc.. I just wanted a white collar job.

Edited July 6, 2016 by GGNHL

[Highmark]

To each their own.   Rather rural or urban both offer things the other doesn't both good and bad.

I know when I drive thru poor area's in cities I thank my lucky stars to be where I'm at.  We have seen a large push of people from the Chicago area out to the Dubuque area because of the easier access to section 8 housing, better schools and less crime.   Unfortunately some of the crime has came with it.  I think in some of our "cities" it has also put stress on other public aide.   

Rural America will not survive on agriculture alone.  Technology allows for a few to farm thousands of acres now.  Our successful towns have a number of manufacturing facilities in each.   The communities have embraced their importance to the vitality of the town.  Sure we might not be growing at the same percentage as large urban area's but we also don't have the issues those area's have as well.   

[01mxz800]

17 hours ago, Capt.Storm said:

Weren't you driving for a recycling company or something like that?

10 years at BFI waste, 5 years hauling propane and last 13 hauling hot liquid asphalt to blacktop plants for Midland Asphalt Materials in Lyons

[Capt.Storm]

3 minutes ago, 01mxz800 said:

10 years at BFI waste, 5 years hauling propane and last 13 hauling hot liquid asphalt to blacktop plants for Midland Asphalt Materials in Lyons

It was a long time ago when we hanged out some..lol.

Jon,Leroy,Mike..Remember Gator?

[01mxz800]

gator is a name I haven't heard in a while LOL

[Capt.Storm]

5 minutes ago, 01mxz800 said:

gator is a name I haven't heard in a while LOL

I think/heared he died in the canal trying to get away from the cops..is that true?

Edited July 6, 2016 by Capt.Storm

[01mxz800]

3 hours ago, Capt.Storm said:

I think/heared he died in the canal trying to get away from the cops..is that true?

Yup fell trough the ice after robbing Busy Bee I think

[Capt.Storm]

Just now, 01mxz800 said:

Yup fell trough the ice after robbing Busy Bee I think

I think he was the only friend I had in Lyons that happened to be black..poor gator.

[racer254]

4 hours ago, Highmark said:

I know when I drive thru poor area's in cities I thank my lucky stars to be where I'm at.  We have seen a large push of people from the Chicago area out to the Dubuque area because of the easier access to section 8 housing, better schools and less crime.   Unfortunately some of the crime has came with it.  I think in some of our "cities" it has also put stress on other public aide.   

.   

psycho....SECTION 8 HOUSING.  Democrats!!!!  Let me guess, they moved there for the jobs.  Yeah right.

[Cold War]

6 hours ago, Anler said:

My parents moved from rural Illinois to the Chicago area when I was 3. Both of their families still live there. I spent many summers there growing up. Let me tell you, living and growing up in an urban area has far more opportunity than rural and I thank God my parents didn't raise me in that rural shithole. 

The other thing I have noticed about small town people is their small mindedness. They can't imagine anything outside of their puny microcosm of reality and the big city scares them to death. I would never want to be like that.

Wees didn't  knows much about nothing .............until we got ones of those picture boxes last year.

[Highmark]

34 minutes ago, racer254 said:

psycho....SECTION 8 HOUSING.  Democrats!!!!  Let me guess, they moved there for the jobs.  Yeah right.

You wouldn't believe how much the "city" of Dubuque has changed.  

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/429693/affh-preview-obamas-hud-takes-over-dubuque-iowa

 

How Obama Stole Dubuque

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/429693/affh-preview-obamas-hud-takes-over-dubuque-iowa

What state is Dubuque in? If you answered Chicago, you are correct. Chicago’s no state, you say? Don’t be so 18th century — so “constitutional.” Dubuque is in Chicago, which is now a kind of state. Or to put it differently, the Obama administration is in the process of replacing our entire system of government — made up of nested local, state, and national, levels — with a regional framework. In Obama’s new dispensation, suburbs, small towns, and modest-sized cities like Dubuque will be turned into subordinate satellites of regional mega-cities like Chicago, regardless of which state these local governments are formally a part of. Welcome to the world of “Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing” (AFFH), President Obama’s transformative new regulation. How will AFFH work? The city of Dubuque gives us one of our best and most frightening previews yet. I hope the presidential candidates are watching, because Obama’s new AFFH regulation and the Dubuque fiasco ought to be an issue in this year’s Iowa caucuses. I also hope American citizens pay attention to the travesty in Dubuque, because it’s not too late to save your hometown from Dubuque’s fate. (I’ll tell you how to do this below.) An account of Dubuque as a forerunner of a post-AFFH world comes to us courtesy of a stunning report by Deborah Thornton, a policy analyst for Iowa’s Public Interest Institute. The report tells the story of how Dubuque was pressured to cede large swathes of its governing authority to the Department of Housing and Urban Development, which has forced the city to direct its limited low-income “Section 8” housing resources, not to its own needy citizens, but to voucher-holders from Chicago. Unlike the more familiar forerunner of AFFH, Westchester County, Dubuque is not an upper-middle-class suburb but a small and economically struggling city. At $44,600, median income in Dubuque is well below the state median of $51,843. Like other nearby Mississippi river towns with aging populations, Dubuque is hard-pressed to provide good jobs and decent housing for the low-income people already there: poor families with children, retired elderly, and disabled adults. The city’s priority is to revive its economy by keeping its young people from moving away, and by attracting new residents who are willing and able to start businesses. Like any city, Dubuque’s first obligation is to see to the needs of the citizens who already live there, vote, and pay taxes. Or so it was in pre-AFFH America. Our story begins about eight years ago. Just as Dubuque was reeling from the effects of the 2008 recession and dealing with an uptick in its own low-income housing needs, the city was hit with a wave of “Section 8” low-income housing voucher applicants from Chicago. A few years earlier, Chicago had systematically demolished its most drug- and crime-ridden high-rise public housing facilities, using grants from HUD. Yet through its own mismanagement, Chicago had failed to properly replace its now depleted low-income housing stock, leaving many Chicago residents looking to use their Section 8 vouchers elsewhere. With many more Section 8 applicants than it could house, Dubuque instituted a low-income housing point system granting preference to Dubuque residents, county residents, state residents, and out-of-state residents, in that order. Although HUD’s rules ostensibly allow localities to craft their own housing priorities, Dubuque’s point system was deemed unacceptable by HUD. The feds undertook a review of Dubuque’s housing policy that effectively treated the city as part of greater Chicago. This, of course, is ridiculous. Dubuque is 200 miles and a four-to-five hour drive away from Chicago, even without traffic. And of course the two cities are in different states. But by effectively treating Dubuque and Chicago as part of the same “region,” HUD was able to declare Dubuque’s low-income housing point system discriminatory. Since the vast majority of Section 8 applicants from Chicago were African-Americans, Dubuque’s preferences for citizens of its own city, county, and state were deemed racist. HUD insisted that Dubuque would have to admit housing applicants in conformity with the demographics of the larger (HUD-defined) region. Somehow Dubuque had become a satellite of Chicago. Having previously accepted HUD funding through the Housing Choice Voucher (Section 8) program, as well as HUD’s Community Development Block Grant program, Dubuque was formally obligated to “affirmatively further fair housing” in whatever way HUD defined that obligation. Refusal to submit to HUD’s dictates would have led to the withdrawal of federal funding, a lawsuit for supposed discrimination, or both. The cowed elected officials of Dubuque accordingly signed a “voluntary” (in truth, forced) consent agreement that effectively ceded control of the city’s housing policy to HUD for at least five years. Under HUD’s detailed oversight, Dubuque must now actively recruit Section 8 voucher holders from the Chicago area. In fact, as of January 2015, the percentage of African-American voucher users in Dubuque was larger than the percentage of African-Americans living in Chicago. The problem is that very few of these new public housing residents have ever lived or paid taxes in Dubuque, or even Iowa. The feds have essentially commandeered Dubuque to solve Chicago’s public housing shortage. HUD’s diktat also imposes a huge administrative burden on Dubuque, with monthly, quarterly, annual, and five-year plans to be filed and followed up on. (Yes, a “five-year plan.”) Having “voluntarily” consented to a federal takeover, Dubuque is now obligated to follow HUD’s every command for at least five years. Thornton rightly notes that Dubuque is a template for the coming implementation of AFFH. The rule will make it easy for HUD to effectively annex other Iowa river-towns—like Clinton, Davenport, and Burlington—to greater Chicago, although those cities are no closer to Chicago than Dubuque. The same pattern will play out nationally under AFFH, Thornton warns. In a post-AFFH world, every region of the United States will be compelled “to meet nationally determined standards for the management and makeup of every aspect” of local life, says Thornton. AFFH will also force local communities into regional consortia directed by what Thornton calls “unelected governing boards who do not represent the voters.” Those electorally unaccountable regional commissions, she continues, “will set targets for the desired percentage of ‘types’ of people to live in each area of the region.” Cities and businesses, “buried under mounds of paperwork,” will have no choice but to submit. How can a housing rule control every aspect of local life? It’s far easier than you might imagine. AFFH redefines “fair housing” to include proximity to transportation, jobs, and schools. This will effectively extend the power that HUD now exercises over Dubuque’s housing policy to nearly every other aspect of local development and planning. Under AFFH, once a town takes HUD money, it effectively loses control not only over housing but schools, zoning, transportation, the environment, and business location.  As Thornton concludes, “If you take their money, you play by their rules.” Dubuque shows that, over time, Obama’s AFFH rule could spell the end of local government in America. Thornton rightly warns against the regional consortia provided for in AFFH.  Once HUD pressures a municipality into such a regional governing entity, local control is lost. But the Dubuque case strikes me as an even scarier precedent than Thornton implies. A city may not even have to formally join a regional consortium to lose its capacity for self-government. After all, HUD didn’t need to force Dubuque to formally join a regional consortium in order to turn it into a satellite of Chicago. All the feds had to do was classify Dubuque as part of greater Chicago, then judge the city’s housing demographics as out-of-balance with reference to the racial and ethnic make-up of the region as a whole. At that point, a trumped-up charge of racism and threats to withdraw funding or file a lawsuit “logically” followed. Without joining anything, Dubuque is for all practical purposes now part of Chicago, essentially because HUD has declared it so. AFFH makes this trick particularly easy to pull off because the rule instructs all localities in receipt of federal grants to analyze their housing practices with reference to “regional data” provided by HUD.  By forcing every town, small city, or suburb that takes HUD money to evaluate the “fairness” of its demographic mix with reference to the demographics of the nearest mega-city, HUD can effectively institute regional government in America by fiat. If the ethnic mix of your town is substantially different than the ethnic mix of a city even 200 miles, a five-hour drive, and another state away, you will have to recruit that city’s dominant ethnicities to populate your low-income housing, so long as HUD declares you to be in that “region.” As Iowa is to Chicago, so may New Hampshire soon be to Boston. Are you listening presidential candidates? In its story on the announcement of AFFH, The New York Times quoted Secretary Julian Castro downplaying HUD’s intended enforcement efforts. Castro portrays the cutoff of federal funds as a last resort that he barely intends to use, if at all. Dubuque makes a mockery of Castro’s claim, unless you credit the absurd pretense that the Dubuque’s compliance agreement was in fact voluntary, rather than the response of a financially-strapped town to threats of federal defunding and/or lawsuits—threats levied on the basis of a thoroughly contrived “regionalist” premise. When it comes to housing, Secretary Castro is now forcibly controlling virtually every move Dubuque makes. Come to think of it, Dubuque may not be in the state of Chicago after all. What state is Dubuque really in? If you answered H.U.D., you are correct. If you don’t want your hometown to become the next Dubuque, there’s something you can do to prevent it right now. Organize your neighbors and force your local government to stop taking HUD money. (For more on how to do this, go here.)

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/429693/affh-preview-obamas-hud-takes-over-dubuque-iowa

[Highmark]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111903520204576480542593887906

 

Dubuque, Iowa, is struggling with an influx of Section 8 recipients from Chicago housing projects. Section 8 concentrations account for 11 of 13 local violent crime hot spots, according to a study by the Northern Illinois University Center for Governmental Studies. Though Section 8 residents account for only 5% of the local population, a 2010 report released by the city government found that more than 20% of arrestees resided at Section 8 addresses.

Dubuque's city government responded by trimming the size of the local Section 8 program. HUD retaliated by launching a "civil rights compliance review" of the program (final results pending).

HUD seems far more enthusiastic about cracking down on localities than on troublesome Section 8 recipients who make life miserable for the rest of the community. And because Section 8 recipients in some areas are mostly black or Latino, almost any enforcement effort can be denounced as discriminatory.

http://nypost.com/2016/05/08/obamas-last-act-is-to-force-suburbs-to-be-less-white-and-less-wealthy/

 

[Mainecat]

6 hours ago, GGNHL said:

I'll ask your opinion on the geography of Maine the same time I do on how to raise a child.

Commuting from my current rental on 60 acres of woodland to a city of 18k isn't what most people in your area would consider urban living.

 

I could have made a living back home in the forest products industry too just like all my buds who have homes, newer vehicles, sleds, etc.. I just wanted a white collar job.

RIIIIIIIGHT

[Mainecat]

7 hours ago, Anler said:

My parents moved from rural Illinois to the Chicago area when I was 3. Both of their families still live there. I spent many summers there growing up. Let me tell you, living and growing up in an urban area has far more opportunity than rural and I thank God my parents didn't raise me in that rural shithole. 

The other thing I have noticed about small town people is their small mindedness. They can't imagine anything outside of their puny microcosm of reality and the big city scares them to death. I would never want to be like that.

Blacks and Hispanics scare the crap out of rural small towners

[snoughnut]

5 hours ago, GGNHL said:

 

To be fair many urban residents are completely oblivious to rural areas and the natural environment outside of their concrete jungle as well. You'd be surprised at the number of people who don't think trees grow back on their own after being cut... Idiots are going to be idiots whether they're in the city or whether theyre in east Bumfuck. You're just more likely to see more intelligent people in a city depending on the area you visit as they tend to congregate in certain areas.

 

Opprotunities for career advancement, earning power, etc. mean nothing if you're miserable. I'd honestly rather kill myself than be trapped in a concrete jungle or endless sea of subdivisions. Cities are fun to visit once in a while for fine dining, seeing a show at the theatre, etc. but I would never want my future children to grow up in one.

That's why the Chicago idiots flock to the northwoods of Wisconsin like a caribou migration, they have to cleanse themselves of that toxic environment.