Wagner group mercenaries move into Russian city.

[Anler]

3 hours ago, spin_dry said:

Yup. Me. A lot of the other clowns blamed the Russian invasion on NATO and the US. Weird stuff. 

Well the Russians have been fighting NATO so...

[spin_dry]

41 minutes ago, Anler said:

Well the Russians have been fighting NATO so...

Good. 

[Anler]

41 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

Good. 

I should have said "The Russians are killing NATO" LOL

[Rod]

5 hours ago, Anler said:

I should have said "The Russians are killing NATO" LOL

Yup nato is fucked 

[XCR1250]

Prigozhin Just Got Double-Crossed by Duplicitous Putin

754

•  

   
•  

   

• 

   
•  

 

Nico Hines

Updated Mon, June 26, 2023 at 2:53 PM CDT

 

 

In this article:

•  

   
•  

   

• 

  Vladimir Putin

  President of Russia
• Yevgeny Prigozhin

  Russian terrorist & war criminal

 

 

 

Press service of Concord/Handout via Reuters

On Saturday night, with his heavily armed mercenaries closing in on Moscow, Yevgeny Prigozhin abruptly announced that he was shutting down his insurrection after a negotiated settlement that would allow him to walk away peacefully.

Just two days later, the Russian authorities leaked word that the agreement was already toast.

President Vladimir Putin appeared to confirm that Prigozhin had no ‘get out of jail free card’ in an address to the nation late on Monday, in which he said that “the organizers of this rebellion” would “be brought to justice.”

After one of the most extraordinary days in modern Russian history, which saw Prigozhin seize the military’s southern command HQ in Rostov-on-Don before a column of his fighters sped toward Moscow virtually unopposed, it was announced that the former Putin confidant would be granted an amnesty and allowed to head into exile in Belarus.

Prigozhin—who forged his notorious reputation by running the world’s most bloodthirsty mercenary army—laughably said the deal was struck to ensure that no “blood will be shed” even though his men had already shot down several Russian helicopters and a military plane, according to reports from Russian military bloggers and the Ukrainian air force spokesman, killing up to 39 Russians.

No details of the deal struck in talks with Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko were announced by media-savvy Prigozhin himself over the weekend. It was reported in the Russian press that the agreement would see his men spared in order to rejoin the fight in Ukraine under contract to the Ministry of Defense and that the Wagner boss would be granted amnesty for his treasonous mutiny and allowed to drive off into the sunset.

On Monday, a new audio recording of Prigozhin was released by his press service saying that Lukashenko had brokered a deal to keep his Wagner Group in business.

He claimed Wagner had been due to get shut down next Saturday. Lukashenko offered to find a way for the legal operation of Wagner to continue, Prigozhin said.

He made no reference to the supposed deal to keep himself or his comrades out of prison.

Why Did Putin Let Prigozhin Walk Away?

A few hours earlier, signs first emerged that the deal may not have been struck in good faith. The Russian state news agency RIA Novosti reported that the criminal case against Prigozhin had not—in fact—been dropped. The official state news agency, TASS, soon confirmed that the investigation into the mutiny that humiliated Putin was ongoing.

A Prosecutor General’s Office source was quoted as saying: “The criminal case against Prigozhin did not stop. The investigation continues.”

Prigozhin could face 20 years behind bars.

There was a glimmer of hope for Prigozhin on Monday night when Putin said he would keep his word and allow Wagner fighters to go into exile in Belarus. “I promise those of Wagner who want to go to Belarus, I will keep my promise,” he said. But it was far from clear if Prigozhin would be included in the guarantee, as surely Putin is not so weak that he could pretend the Wagner boss was not part of the insurrection leadership.

His location is currently unknown and he has not been seen in public since driving off the Russian military base in a civilian car.

Even loyal Kremlin propagandists had been furious that Putin was apparently going to let Prigozhin get away with turning on his own military and exposing the weakness of the Kremlin. The Daily Beast reported that the flagship propaganda show Sunday Evening With Vladimir Solovyov was brimming with disgust for such an act of presidential leniency.

“I am firmly convinced that during wartime, traitors have to be destroyed! Today, no matter who says what, whatever fairy tales they are telling, a bullet to the forehead is the sole salvation for Prigozhin,” said State Duma deputy Andrey Gurulyov, a retired army officer. “Treason cannot be forgiven under any circumstances!”

Russian State TV Anchors Aghast That Putin Didn’t Kill Prigozhin

Letting Prigozhin get away with such a fundamental criminal act was all the more baffling since Putin had personally given a commitment to strike back forcefully in an address to the nation on Saturday morning. “Anyone who consciously went on the path of betrayal, who prepared the armed mutiny, went on the path of blackmail and terrorist actions, will be punished inevitably. They will answer before the law and our people,” he said. “Our actions to defend the fatherland from such a threat will be brutal.”

There was widespread confusion on Saturday night about why it had been Lukashenko who negotiated the climbdown with Prigozhin. It was seen as a yet another sign of Putin’s weakness that he could not deal with his former contract caterer himself.

Perhaps it would make more sense for Putin to outsource the negotiations if he never intended to stick to the agreement, although such a slippery and duplicitous approach would do little to repair the Russian leader’s faltering reputation as a strong man, which suffered a decisive blow this weekend.

[spin_dry]

44 minutes ago, XCR1250 said:

Prigozhin Just Got Double-Crossed by Duplicitous Putin

754

•  

   

   

   
•  

   

   

   

• 

   
•  

 

Nico Hines

Updated Mon, June 26, 2023 at 2:53 PM CDT

 

 

In this article:

•  

   

   

   
•  

   

   

   

• 

  Vladimir Putin

  President of Russia
• Yevgeny Prigozhin

  Russian terrorist & war criminal

 

 

 

Press service of Concord/Handout via Reuters

On Saturday night, with his heavily armed mercenaries closing in on Moscow, Yevgeny Prigozhin abruptly announced that he was shutting down his insurrection after a negotiated settlement that would allow him to walk away peacefully.

Just two days later, the Russian authorities leaked word that the agreement was already toast.

President Vladimir Putin appeared to confirm that Prigozhin had no ‘get out of jail free card’ in an address to the nation late on Monday, in which he said that “the organizers of this rebellion” would “be brought to justice.”

After one of the most extraordinary days in modern Russian history, which saw Prigozhin seize the military’s southern command HQ in Rostov-on-Don before a column of his fighters sped toward Moscow virtually unopposed, it was announced that the former Putin confidant would be granted an amnesty and allowed to head into exile in Belarus.

Prigozhin—who forged his notorious reputation by running the world’s most bloodthirsty mercenary army—laughably said the deal was struck to ensure that no “blood will be shed” even though his men had already shot down several Russian helicopters and a military plane, according to reports from Russian military bloggers and the Ukrainian air force spokesman, killing up to 39 Russians.

No details of the deal struck in talks with Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko were announced by media-savvy Prigozhin himself over the weekend. It was reported in the Russian press that the agreement would see his men spared in order to rejoin the fight in Ukraine under contract to the Ministry of Defense and that the Wagner boss would be granted amnesty for his treasonous mutiny and allowed to drive off into the sunset.

On Monday, a new audio recording of Prigozhin was released by his press service saying that Lukashenko had brokered a deal to keep his Wagner Group in business.

He claimed Wagner had been due to get shut down next Saturday. Lukashenko offered to find a way for the legal operation of Wagner to continue, Prigozhin said.

He made no reference to the supposed deal to keep himself or his comrades out of prison.

Why Did Putin Let Prigozhin Walk Away?

A few hours earlier, signs first emerged that the deal may not have been struck in good faith. The Russian state news agency RIA Novosti reported that the criminal case against Prigozhin had not—in fact—been dropped. The official state news agency, TASS, soon confirmed that the investigation into the mutiny that humiliated Putin was ongoing.

A Prosecutor General’s Office source was quoted as saying: “The criminal case against Prigozhin did not stop. The investigation continues.”

Prigozhin could face 20 years behind bars.

There was a glimmer of hope for Prigozhin on Monday night when Putin said he would keep his word and allow Wagner fighters to go into exile in Belarus. “I promise those of Wagner who want to go to Belarus, I will keep my promise,” he said. But it was far from clear if Prigozhin would be included in the guarantee, as surely Putin is not so weak that he could pretend the Wagner boss was not part of the insurrection leadership.

His location is currently unknown and he has not been seen in public since driving off the Russian military base in a civilian car.

Even loyal Kremlin propagandists had been furious that Putin was apparently going to let Prigozhin get away with turning on his own military and exposing the weakness of the Kremlin. The Daily Beast reported that the flagship propaganda show Sunday Evening With Vladimir Solovyov was brimming with disgust for such an act of presidential leniency.

“I am firmly convinced that during wartime, traitors have to be destroyed! Today, no matter who says what, whatever fairy tales they are telling, a bullet to the forehead is the sole salvation for Prigozhin,” said State Duma deputy Andrey Gurulyov, a retired army officer. “Treason cannot be forgiven under any circumstances!”

Russian State TV Anchors Aghast That Putin Didn’t Kill Prigozhin

Letting Prigozhin get away with such a fundamental criminal act was all the more baffling since Putin had personally given a commitment to strike back forcefully in an address to the nation on Saturday morning. “Anyone who consciously went on the path of betrayal, who prepared the armed mutiny, went on the path of blackmail and terrorist actions, will be punished inevitably. They will answer before the law and our people,” he said. “Our actions to defend the fatherland from such a threat will be brutal.”

There was widespread confusion on Saturday night about why it had been Lukashenko who negotiated the climbdown with Prigozhin. It was seen as a yet another sign of Putin’s weakness that he could not deal with his former contract caterer himself.

Perhaps it would make more sense for Putin to outsource the negotiations if he never intended to stick to the agreement, although such a slippery and duplicitous approach would do little to repair the Russian leader’s faltering reputation as a strong man, which suffered a decisive blow this weekend.

He showed the world what a shit show the Russian military has become. Frankly, it was never very good. 

[X2700]

Russia could make us all have a bad day if they really wanted to.

of course they also will have a bad day.

if they are so weak what the hell we worried about and why all the fuss over Ukraine?

[f7ben]

54 minutes ago, X2700 said:

Russia could make us all have a bad day if they really wanted to.

of course they also will have a bad day.

if they are so weak what the hell we worried about and why all the fuss over Ukraine?

Money laundering , that’s all anything is about. Theft from the American taxpayer and how to wash that money. Retarded ass filth like spincry and Mc and snowrider think it’s great we get fucked by corrupt trash

[Highmark]

9 hours ago, f7ben said:

Money laundering , that’s all anything is about. Theft from the American taxpayer and how to wash that money. Retarded ass filth like spincry and Mc and snowrider think it’s great we get fucked by corrupt trash

The money and weapons NATO countries have provided Ukraine is 3-4 times Russia's annual military spend.  Without question a portion of that has ended up in the corrupt oligarch's and politicians of Ukraine.   

[akvanden]

26 minutes ago, Highmark said:

The money and weapons NATO countries have provided Ukraine is 3-4 times Russia's annual military spend.  Without question a portion of that has ended up in the corrupt oligarch's and politicians of Ukraine.   

Because Russia has had a decades head start. Ukraine doesn’t have that luxury; it’s everything now or be destroyed. 

 

There’s a reason by in large both parties support Ukraine. Best money we could have spent, and if it gives China second thoughts on Taiwan, even better.

 

 

[Highmark]

16 minutes ago, akvanden said:

Because Russia has had a decades head start. Ukraine doesn’t have that luxury; it’s everything now or be destroyed. 

 

There’s a reason by in large both parties support Ukraine. Best money we could have spent, and if it gives China second thoughts on Taiwan, even better.

 

 

Europe's problem not ours.   They are the ones that have lifted up Russia financially all the while not meeting NATO defense spending obligations depending on the US to defend them.  This entire thing has been caused by European countries military weakness and NATO's continued pressure on Russian borders. 

I'm not claiming Russia is by any means good however lets see how we react to China possibly putting a base in Cuba.  How would we react to China bases in Mexico and Canada?  They surely could claim they are defensive with us having bases all over the Pacific.  Its one thing to stand up to countries like China and Russia its a whole different thing to corner them in.   And please stop with NATO and the US only do it for "defensive" purposes.  There has never been a bigger oxymoron than the idea that a military should be thought of as defensive only.   

Edited June 27, 2023 by Highmark

[akvanden]

28 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Europe's problem not ours.   They are the ones that have lifted up Russia financially all the while not meeting NATO defense spending obligations depending on the US to defend them.  This entire thing has been caused by European countries military weakness and NATO's continued pressure on Russian borders. 

That’s not very forward looking. So Europe’s weak and should have continued their weak stance? And yes, NATOs problem is our problem. It’s money well spent now rather than later down the road when the problem manifests into something bigger (because we let it) and then it’s not just money being spent, but American soldiers. Doing nothing would guarantee we’d someday be looking back in this saying “remember when we let Russia go unchecked invading and annexing other countries land? Man I wish we would have done something then.” 

[X2700]

Ukraine join nato yet?

[Highmark]

1 hour ago, akvanden said:

That’s not very forward looking. So Europe’s weak and should have continued their weak stance? And yes, NATOs problem is our problem. It’s money well spent now rather than later down the road when the problem manifests into something bigger (because we let it) and then it’s not just money being spent, but American soldiers. Doing nothing would guarantee we’d someday be looking back in this saying “remember when we let Russia go unchecked invading and annexing other countries land? Man I wish we would have done something then.” 

Forward looking.   Sorry I'm just not buying Russia wants take over most of Europe and return its borders to the days of the Soviet Union.  Its quite obvious they wouldn't have stood a chance.  Can you honestly claim that there was significant steps to solving this diplomatically?  I can't recall any.  

My guess our IC knew exactly how strong or moreso how weak Russia really was and pretty much everyone left was a NATO member.  No chance he attacks NATO.  

Yes most of NATO was MUCH weaker than they should have been and Trump called them out on it.   If they had been spending the required 2% of GDP over the decades one of two things may have occurred.   Russia would have seen them as too strong and or they could have handled it themselves.  We cannot afford to be the worlds police/Army dude we are $32+ Trillion in debt.     

Our money would be much better spent looking to the possibility of a conflict against China.  Other than Nukes Russia isn't a threat to us anymore and obviously haven't been for some time.

You don't feel in any way NATO/Europe has used us since the beginning of the cold war?  Man you are blind if you can't see that.

Most of NATO thinks China as a US problem....we should return the favor and think of Russia as a European problem.  Putin/Russia is not Hitler and the Nazis.  

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_67655.htm

The combined wealth of the non-US Allies, measured in GDP, is almost equal to that of the United States. However, non-US Allies together spend less than half of what the United States spends on defence. This imbalance has been a constant, with variations, throughout the history of the Alliance and has grown more pronounced since the tragic events of 11 September 2001, after which the United States significantly increased its defence spending. The volume of US defence expenditure represents approximately two thirds of the defence spending of the Alliance as a whole. However, this is not the amount that the United States contributes to the operational running of NATO, which is shared with all Allies according to the principle of common funding. Moreover, US defence spending also covers commitments outside the Euro-Atlantic area. It should be noted, nonetheless, that the Alliance relies on the United States for the provision of some essential capabilities, regarding for instance, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; air-to-air refuelling; ballistic missile defence; and airborne electromagnetic warfare.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Highmark

[akvanden]

1 hour ago, Highmark said:

Forward looking.   Sorry I'm just not buying Russia wants take over most of Europe and return its borders to the days of the Soviet Union.  Its quite obvious they wouldn't have stood a chance.  Can you honestly claim that there was significant steps to solving this diplomatically?  I can't recall any.  

Forward looking, aka strategic planning. It’s funny stuff, for sure. 

No, they’re not trying to take all of Europe, but leaving them unchecked ensures they’re military strength doesn’t change, their faith in leadership doesn’t change, their economy doesn’t change, Europe’s energy dependence doesn’t change, and sends a message to other countries with similar ambitions. A weaker Russia is good for NATO aka Europe and its biggest supporter: the US.

 

1 hour ago, Highmark said:

Yes most of NATO was MUCH weaker than they should have been and Trump called them out on it.   If they had been spending the required 2% of GDP over the decades one of two things may have occurred.   Russia would have seen them as too strong and or they could have handled it themselves.  We cannot afford to be the worlds police/Army dude we are $32+ Trillion in debt.     

Yes, everyone should pay their fair share. That doesn’t mean we can’t take advantage of Russia’s military blunder in the meantime

 

1 hour ago, Highmark said:

Our money would be much better spent looking to the possibility of a conflict against China.  Other than Nukes Russia isn't a threat to us anymore.

This sends a unified message to China. No intervention is exactly what China wanted.

 

1 hour ago, Highmark said:

You don't feel in any way NATO/Europe has used us since the beginning of the cold war?  Man you are blind if you can't see that. 

Of course, we’re the largest military support of NATO. Of course they use us. And we use them. We have bases all throughout Europe. How do you think the US maintains it’s protection of power and military dominance if we don’t strategically locate our assets all throught the world?

 

I’ll refrain from predicting your response and calling you blind in advance. 

 

[Highmark]

13 minutes ago, akvanden said:

Forward looking, aka strategic planning. It’s funny stuff, for sure. 

No, they’re not trying to take all of Europe, but leaving them unchecked ensures they’re military strength doesn’t change, their faith in leadership doesn’t change, their economy doesn’t change, Europe’s energy dependence doesn’t change, and sends a message to other countries with similar ambitions. A weaker Russia is good for NATO aka Europe and its biggest supporter: the US.

 

Yes, everyone should pay their fair share. That doesn’t mean we can’t take advantage of Russia’s military blunder in the meantime

 

This sends a unified message to China. No intervention is exactly what China wanted.

 

Of course, we’re the largest military support of NATO. Of course they use us. And we use them. We have bases all throughout Europe. How do you think the US maintains it’s protection of power and military dominance if we don’t strategically locate our assets all throught the world?

 

I’ll refrain from predicting your response and calling you blind in advance. 

 

A weaker Russia.....so their citizens continue to hate the west.  Russia should have been embraced more than they were decades ago.   NATO kept advancing and continued to call them the enemy and that's how their people still feel.  The US will be expected to foot the bill of rebuilding Ukraine.    

Again aren't we the generous ones allowing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian young men die because of how we think the world should be.  There was little or no effort to solve this diplomatically....the powers of the US wanted this war.  Both sides.   

The message to China is possibly the only positive thing that our support might bring however with who is in office and what we are learning I'm not convinced the US would do hardly anything if China moved on Taiwan anyway.  Chances are the admin is very vulnerable when it comes to China.   

How wonderful we pay and get to put bases all over the world putting our soldiers in immediate danger and contributing to a MIC that has us $32+ trillion in debt.   How about those countries foot the bill for our protection?  God forbid we demand anything from our allies.  All the while letting an invasion occur at our southern border that is now killing 100K American citizens a year but meh....Ukraine!    

All of this military might around the world only contributes to the bureaucracy and a behemoth fed govt that will literally do anything to protect its power. 

I'll refrain from calling you a war mongering govt lackey who will do or believe anything that comes out of Washington.  

Edited June 27, 2023 by Highmark

[Jimmy Snacks]

[akvanden]

20 minutes ago, Highmark said:

A weaker Russia.....so their citizens continue to hate the west.  Russia should have been embraced more than they were decades ago.   NATO kept advancing and continued to call them the enemy and that's how their people still feel.

You’re right, we should have loved them more. Our fault. They invade and annex, our fault.

 

22 minutes ago, Highmark said:

The US will be expected to foot the bill of rebuilding Ukraine.

Russian seized assets will provide the majority.

 

22 minutes ago, Highmark said:

I'll refrain from calling you a war mongering govt lackey who will do or believe anything that comes out of Washington.  

And I’ll refrain from calling you a pacifist hippie. Win win for us both!

 

 

 

[Highmark]

9 minutes ago, akvanden said:

You’re right, we should have loved them more. Our fault. They invade and annex, our fault.

 

Russian seized assets will provide the majority.

 

And I’ll refrain from calling you a pacifist hippie. Win win for us both!

 

 

 

Most hilarious thing I've read on here in a long time.     Russia seized assets.   

Pacifists refuse any fight...it takes intelligence to not get into every fight. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Highmark

[Jimmy Snacks]

8 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Most hilarious thing I've read on here in a long time.     Russia seized assets.   

That reminds me…whatever became of all those seized yachts belonging to the Russian Oligrachs…any accounting of that money….🤣

[akvanden]

6 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Most hilarious thing I've read on here in a long time.     Russia seized assets.   

Almost as funny as strategic planning.

[Highmark]

8 minutes ago, akvanden said:

Almost as funny as strategic planning.

You know Russia has been seizing assets as well.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/fortum-says-investigating-news-russian-asset-seizure-2023-04-26/  

[Highmark]

11 minutes ago, akvanden said:

Almost as funny as strategic planning.

Strategic planning is exactly what we are doing in Ukraine.    

[akvanden]

24 minutes ago, Highmark said:

You know Russia has been seizing assets as well.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/fortum-says-investigating-news-russian-asset-seizure-2023-04-26/  

Yeah, and fortunately for the west Russian investments outside Russia is/was much higher than western investments inside of Russia.

Hey - here’s some more of the “Most hilarious thing you’ve read on here in a long time” from your very own link.

“Meanwhile, the European Union is looking at using frozen Russian assets to rebuild Ukraine.”

 

28 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Strategic planning is exactly what we are doing in Ukraine.    

 

Yup, it is. And l’ll repeat this again, it’s why the majority in both parties support military assistance in Ukraine. They understand the strategic  importance.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m laughing with you. 

 

 

[Highmark]

10 minutes ago, akvanden said:

Yeah, and fortunately for the west Russian investments outside Russia is/was much higher than western investments inside of Russia.

Hey - here’s some more of the “Most hilarious thing you’ve read on here in a long time” from your very own link.

“Meanwhile, the European Union is looking at using frozen Russian assets to rebuild Ukraine.”

 

 

Yup, it is. And l’ll repeat this again, it’s why the majority in both parties support military assistance in Ukraine. They understand the strategic  importance.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m laughing with you. 

 

 

They've frozen about $70 billion of Russian assets.  Drop in the bucket.   You think that will go far in rebuilding Ukraine?  You think Russia will ever concede without a compromise of their culpability?   You need to read up on WW1 and how that works out.  The world will pay for this more than Russia or it will never end.  Russia will be happy to just hold on to what they have right now.  

Most of the time America is in trouble when both parties agree on anything much less foreign affairs.   Both sides supported the Iraq war.  Both sides supported Vietnam.  

Edited June 27, 2023 by Highmark