FDA approves first over-the-counter version of opioid overdose antidote Narcan

[Skidooski]

Of the heroin addicts I’ve known, only one made it out alive

Edited March 31, 2023 by Skidooski

[Cold War]

2 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

No. I’ve never met a heroin addict. 

🙄
Personally, where you cared if they lived or died.  
 

I don’t know of anyone who would lie, cheat, steal, destroy their families for one more cheeseburger. 

[spin_dry]

10 minutes ago, Cold War said:

🙄
Personally, where you cared if they lived or died.  
 

I don’t know of anyone who would lie, cheat, steal, destroy their families for one more cheeseburger. 

The country should adapt a morality test to determine who gets medical care? 

[SkisNH]

1 hour ago, spin_dry said:

So if self inflicted destructive behavior is done by legal means it rises to the level of the deserving medical intervention? Is that in your libertarian handbook? 
 

What about the car or snowmobile accident victim that lay in the ditch or trail bleeding to death. They were speeding you know. 

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=specious+argument

 

[J. Jackson]

24 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

The country should adapt a morality test to determine who gets medical care? 

We lost a nephew who overdosed. Narcan-ed numerous times but not the last time. My bil is a shell of himself losing his son. Cries everyday from guilt and wondering what more he could have done. The kid had made some positive strides towards sobering up but it only took a minor glitch to get back to using. The drug consumes a person and unless you're one strong individual that can come clean and stay clean you'll likely end up on the street, in jail or dead. 

[spin_dry]

7 minutes ago, J. Jackson said:

We lost a nephew who overdosed. Narcan-ed numerous times but not the last time. My bil is a shell of himself losing his son. Cries everyday from guilt and wondering what more he could have done. The kid had made some positive strides towards sobering up but it only took a minor glitch to get back to using. The drug consumes a person and unless you're one strong individual that can come clean and stay clean you'll likely end up on the street, in jail or dead. 

Sad stuff. Unfortunately those who are successful at recovery rarely make the news. Have to sneak into those meetings in church basements to meet the thousands that made it out alive. 

[J. Jackson]

1 minute ago, spin_dry said:

Sad stuff. Unfortunately those who are successful at recovery rarely make the news. Have to sneak into those meetings in church basements to meet the thousands that made it out alive. 

Funny tho that you have to wonder if certain groups don't want addicts to recover. We have a methadone clinic in town that is privately owned but receives huge public funding. I know of a few that "graduated" to suboxone and were doing pretty well and had made great strides and for unknown reasons the clinic recommended getting back on methadone. Patient had no choice because the court pretty much mandated their program to recovery was in the hands of the dispensary. Maybe you have some ideas on that.

[spin_dry]

1 minute ago, J. Jackson said:

Funny tho that you have to wonder if certain groups don't want addicts to recover. We have a methadone clinic in town that is privately owned but receives huge public funding. I know of a few that "graduated" to suboxone and were doing pretty well and had made great strides and for unknown reasons the clinic recommended getting back on methadone. Patient had no choice because the court pretty much mandated their program to recovery was in the hands of the dispensary. Maybe you have some ideas on that.

I have very mixed emotions about medication assisted therapy. While I don't deny that there are success stories, the approach has a dark side that few in the profession want to be honest about. Both methadone and Suboxone are long acting opioid agents. That is a blessing and a curse. The blessing is that they will get an addict out of withdrawal and back to functioning. The drug binds to receptors in the brain very tightly which keeps them out of withdrawal. On the other hand they are a total bitch to come off of. The withdrawal can go on for weeks or months while herion withdrawal is done within 7 days. There's also the element of abusing both. This is the dark side that clinics don't want to talk about. I'm old school when it comes to addiction therapy. Drugs are not an addicts problem. It's their solution. Have a deep understanding of that and you can offer effective treatment. The real problem is their attitude, behavior, and indulgent selfishness. They need to understand this and the necessary tools and direction to move themselves forward. Their perception of strength/willpower is actually their weakness. Only when they allow themselves to be humble, teachable, and willing to submit to something greater than themselves are they able to move from active addiction/dry drunk to a satisfying life of recovery. An addict in a good place won't tell you that they got it. They all understand that they're staying clean on borrowed time. Medication assisted therapy isn't going to teach those important lessons. It's the difference between treating symptoms vs actually treating the disease. I don't mean to sound like I'm totally against medication assisted therapy....it's just often pushed by professionals that haven't a clue about the disease. My team provided a very tough, but compassionate program. Personally, I chose not to work at a methadone or Suboxone clinic. It just didn't fit with my philosophy. I also didn't work with high bottom addicts. I worked with some of the worst who had already grossly misused medication assisted therapy. But like a lot of old school guys, I never gave up until the person was cold. 

[J. Jackson]

39 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

I have very mixed emotions about medication assisted therapy. While I don't deny that there are success stories, the approach has a dark side that few in the profession want to be honest about. Both methadone and Suboxone are long acting opioid agents. That is a blessing and a curse. The blessing is that they will get an addict out of withdrawal and back to functioning. The drug binds to receptors in the brain very tightly which keeps them out of withdrawal. On the other hand they are a total bitch to come off of. The withdrawal can go on for weeks or months while herion withdrawal is done within 7 days. There's also the element of abusing both. This is the dark side that clinics don't want to talk about. I'm old school when it comes to addiction therapy. Drugs are not an addicts problem. It's their solution. Have a deep understanding of that and you can offer effective treatment. The real problem is their attitude, behavior, and indulgent selfishness. They need to understand this and the necessary tools and direction to move themselves forward. Their perception of strength/willpower is actually their weakness. Only when they allow themselves to be humble, teachable, and willing to submit to something greater than themselves are they able to move from active addiction/dry drunk to a satisfying life of recovery. An addict in a good place won't tell you that they got it. They all understand that they're staying clean on borrowed time. Medication assisted therapy isn't going to teach those important lessons. It's the difference between treating symptoms vs actually treating the disease. I don't mean to sound like I'm totally against medication assisted therapy....it's just often pushed by professionals that haven't a clue about the disease. My team provided a very tough, but compassionate program. Personally, I chose not to work at a methadone or Suboxone clinic. It just didn't fit with my philosophy. I also didn't work with high bottom addicts. I worked with some of the worst who had already grossly misused medication assisted therapy. But like a lot of old school guys, I never gave up until the person was cold. 

I appreciate you're words. I, like yourself don't believe that giving a drug to wean you off another one is the answer. Like any addiction, abstinence is the only real way to stop. It's a lifelong commitment battling an addiction whether it's smoking, alcohol, eating disorders or drugs. 

[racer254]

15 hours ago, spin_dry said:

WHO CARES!!

Lets just save the addict instead of going after the suppliers and dealers.  I guess that way treating the addict gives people like you jobs where as if you remove the supply, it puts to many addict saviors out of jobs.  The perpetual blight of the bleeding heart liberals.  If you fix the problem, what else will they have to do.  The war on drugs, war on tobacco companies, war on hunger, all examples.

Create victims so they can provide help without ending the problem.

Edited March 31, 2023 by racer254

[spin_dry]

56 minutes ago, racer254 said:

Lets just save the addict instead of going after the suppliers and dealers.  I guess that way treating the addict gives people like you jobs where as if you remove the supply, it puts to many addict saviors out of jobs.  The perpetual blight of the bleeding heart liberals.  If you fix the problem, what else will they have to do.  The war on drugs, war on tobacco companies, war on hunger, all examples.

Create victims so they can provide help without ending the problem.

Local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies do have drug interdiction programs. So I’m not sure what your point is. 

[racer254]

7 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

Local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies do have drug interdiction programs. So I’m not sure what your point is. 

And using the information about who buys this new OTC overdose antidote should provide these agencies a better indication of where and who is selling.  Work smarter not harder.

[sleepybrew]

i think when it goes over the counter the insurance companies stop paying. like zantac and the others. used to be a prescription but now otc and insurance says go buy it

[sleepybrew]

locally we have a huge heroin/pill/fentanyl issue. local emts go door to door with narcan. sometimes same address in the same day. they are run ragged from it, and they are low on staff already. we service the tahoes they use, and sometimes they tell us they have to go and we have to stop and take it out for them. i have an old friend right now fighting it. started with pills, on to snorting heroin. dealer switched his h for f and didn't tell him. he ended up crashing his truck, dwai, possession , and then wanted only f. so now he has been in the county jail, failed piss tests for f. we all tell him, the only one fixing this is YOU. he can't lie to us , especially when his pupils are like decimal points. we are all hoping he gets it, but at the same time feel that he won't. his poor beautiful wife

[sleepybrew]

i hear that actual heroin is harder to obtain than fentanyl nowadays

[spin_dry]

11 minutes ago, racer254 said:

And using the information about who buys this new OTC overdose antidote should provide these agencies a better indication of where and who is selling.  Work smarter not harder.

So you’re assuming everyone that has narcan is a user. What about professionals, parents, siblings, teachers, employers that carry narcan. How are you going to determine who to “stake out”. My god you’re an insufferable moron. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by spin_dry

[spin_dry]

1 minute ago, sleepybrew said:

i hear that actual heroin is harder to obtain than fentanyl nowadays

There‘s very little heroin left on the street. Nobody wants it. 

[racer254]

5 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

So you’re assuming everyone that has narcan is a user. What about professionals, parents, siblings, teachers, employers that carry narcan. How are you going to determine who to “stalk out”. My god you’re an insufferable moron. 

No wonder the left is so horrible at this.  A prime example of no common sense.  Let me guess, next you will be saying this would be profiling and we can't let that get in the way of fixing issues.  Just like the liberal media is trying to push against the Tenn shooting being a hate crime.  Like I said, work smarter, not harder.

Edited March 31, 2023 by racer254

[spin_dry]

Just now, racer254 said:

No wonder the left is so horrible at this.  A prime example of no common sense.  Let me guess, this would be profiling and we can't let that get in the way of fixing issues.  Like I said, work smarter, not harder.

You do understand that narcan is already free in most localities in Wisconsin? You want people to provide their phone number, address, SS#, and mother’s maiden name upon pick up? Maybe the government should start tracking people on various medications to determine who can purchase, posses, and use a firearm. 

[steve from amherst]

19 minutes ago, racer254 said:

No wonder the left is so horrible at this.  A prime example of no common sense.  Let me guess, next you will be saying this would be profiling and we can't let that get in the way of fixing issues.  Just like the liberal media is trying to push against the Tenn shooting being a hate crime.  Like I said, work smarter, not harder.

Junkies dont want the stuff, its people who care about them and healthcare providers / first responders

[racer254]

16 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

You do understand that narcan is already free in most localities in Wisconsin? You want people to provide their phone number, address, SS#, and mother’s maiden name upon pick up? Maybe the government should start tracking people on various medications to determine who can purchase, posses, and use a firearm. 

It is not illegal to purchase, possess or use a firearm.  If that firearm is used in a crime, then it is possible to find the owner of that firearm.  Possession of firearm is not a guarantee that a crime will be committed, but if it is the owner can be found.

Why not use the information just like they do with firearms and crimes?  It's really not that hard to figure this out.  Not sure why you would be against it.

[Jimmy Snacks]

1 hour ago, spin_dry said:

Local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies do have drug interdiction programs. So I’m not sure what your point is. 

It’s mind boggling really…he should stick to license plate patrol.

[SkisNH]

1 hour ago, spin_dry said:

Local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies do have drug interdiction programs. So I’m not sure what your point is. 

Boarder concerns? 

[racer254]

18 hours ago, Jimmy Snacks said:

Yeah that seems like a good use of resources…FFS.

 

17 hours ago, Jimmy Snacks said:

No shit…guy gets hung up on the most obtuse crap.

 

18 minutes ago, Jimmy Snacks said:

It’s mind boggling really…he should stick to license plate patrol.

All great responses and way to really add to this thread.  LOL.  At least I know I got your attention regarding the plates.  You have commented about it multiple times, so you must be concerned.

[racer254]

57 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

You do understand that narcan is already free in most localities in Wisconsin? You want people to provide their phone number, address, SS#, and mother’s maiden name upon pick up? Maybe the government should start tracking people on various medications to determine who can purchase, posses, and use a firearm. 

If it is already FREE in most localities why would you say it was "long overdue" to be approved for OTC.  

What's the logic of being able to be OTC if you can already get it for free?