motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Highmark said: Who designs, builds and maintains the machines? More machines? Who do you propose sets the guidelines up for what can and cannot be built by a Machine? What level of Commissar makes these decisions? Let me know when you finally read some Marx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 11, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Let me know when you finally read some Marx. I've read enough to know its complete bullshit. Why is that so hard for you to accept that someone understands it yet doesn't agree with it? Its so typical of the left to think in this manner. I believe you have a rudimentary understanding of Capitalism and yet you simply don't agree with it. Honestly I think you feel you can "convert" people on here to your way of thinking yet nobody on here and I mean nobody but you wants Communism...even your delusional, fantasy land Communism. Society is somewhat like a sports team. Yes the collective matters but its each individual improving their ability that makes the team better. The team doesn't get better by the work of a few. If you don't try and contribute then you are cut or traded. Edited January 11, 2017 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Fuck Moto reminds me of some born again who got caught up in the fervor of his new religion regardless of reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 30 minutes ago, Angry ginger said: Fuck Moto reminds me of some born again who got caught up in the fervor of his new religion regardless of reality No, I just see the whole forest now. Capitalism is a dead end cult. It will fall, just like slavery did, just like feudalism did. It is inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 11, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, motonoggin said: No, I just see the whole forest now. Capitalism is a dead end cult. It will fall, just like slavery did, just like feudalism did. It is inevitable. Capitalism will not kill itself. It will be strangled by politicians voted in by an electorate who wants too many gifts from the Treasury for nothing. “Well first of all, tell me: Is there some society you know that doesn’t run on greed? You think Russia doesn’t run on greed? You think China doesn’t run on greed? What is greed? Of course, none of us are greedy, it’s only the other fellow who’s greedy. The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn’t construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn’t revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you’re talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worse off, worst off, it’s exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system.” ― Milton Friedman Edited January 11, 2017 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Capitalism contains its own self destruct button. Stagnant wages and rising debt will do it in, and it's due to its own inability to see a developing social problem and take corrective action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 11, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Capitalism contains its own self destruct button. Stagnant wages and rising debt will do it in, and it's due to its own inability to see a developing social problem and take corrective action. Can you show me a country that does not practice capitalism where the average person is better off than in countries that do? You were behind Bernie and the Scandinavian models of govt which for the most part practice a more free form of capitalism than the US does. Now you want this Utopian Communism. A Democracy is more of a threat to a country than Capitalism. Edited January 11, 2017 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 12 minutes ago, Highmark said: Can you show me a country that does not practice capitalism where the average person is better off than in countries that do? You were behind Bernie and the Scandinavian models of govt which for the most part practice a more free form of capitalism than the US does. Now you want this Utopian Communism. A Democracy is more of a threat to a country than Capitalism. And I have radicalized since then and awoke to the fact that it's capitalism that is the root of the problem. That last sentence is sig worthy. Wew lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Move to a lovely communist country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Sludgey said: Move to a lovely communist country Coming for that toothbrush, whitey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Coming for that toothbrush, whitey. Or are there none of these communist utopias that you dream of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 12 minutes ago, Sludgey said: Or are there none of these communist utopias that you dream of Capitalism hates competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 11, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: And I have radicalized since then and awoke to the fact that it's capitalism that is the root of the problem. That last sentence is sig worthy. Wew lad. You are correct, it is sig worthy. A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 10 minutes ago, Highmark said: You are correct, it is sig worthy. A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy. This quote is built entirely upon the fundamental belief that people are unable to govern themselves. A statist position. I completely reject that notion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 11, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, motonoggin said: This quote is built entirely upon the fundamental belief that people are unable to govern themselves. A statist position. I completely reject that notion. I am absolutely for smaller, more localized govt. however I do think there needs to be some govt in place to keep things in line. In your form of communism the community takes care of one another. That I can agree with. Not all help should come from the hand of govt and when too many voters think it should the country is in trouble. I can't honestly believe you were such a Sanders supporter. Both liberal and leftist agenda's require a HIGH amount of central govt control. Reality is so does Communism. Edited January 11, 2017 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momorider Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 hours ago, motonoggin said: No, I just see the whole forest now. Capitalism is a dead end cult. It will fall, just like slavery did, just like feudalism did. It is inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 23 minutes ago, Highmark said: I am absolutely for smaller, more localized govt. however I do think there needs to be some govt in place to keep things in line. In your form of communism the community takes care of one another. That I can agree with. Not all help should come from the hand of govt and when too many voters think it should the country is in trouble. I can't honestly believe you were such a Sanders supporter. Both liberal and leftist agenda's require a HIGH amount of central govt control. Reality is so does Communism. No, it doesn't. Authoritarianism in any form requires a centralized power. Hell, capitalism requires a state just for its basic survival. Communism is stateless, and anarcho communism is real communism. There are no unjustified hierarchies present in society, everyone has an equal voice and an equal vote, and no one wants for much of anything except to improve themselves and, by extension, humanity. Authoritarian socialism is about the best we've seen of far left governments claiming to be communist. There have been no true communist countries, as those that have attempted it have tried to force it upon the people rather than allowing the people to govern themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 11, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 11, 2017 26 minutes ago, motonoggin said: No, it doesn't. Authoritarianism in any form requires a centralized power. Hell, capitalism requires a state just for its basic survival. Communism is stateless, and anarcho communism is real communism. There are no unjustified hierarchies present in society, everyone has an equal voice and an equal vote, and no one wants for much of anything except to improve themselves and, by extension, humanity. Authoritarian socialism is about the best we've seen of far left governments claiming to be communist. There have been no true communist countries, as those that have attempted it have tried to force it upon the people rather than allowing the people to govern themselves. Again this is assuming the vast majority of people are honest, trustworthy, hard working and not pieces of shit. Everything you claim in your govt would also make a capitalistic Republic better as well, I challenge you to show how it wouldn't. (people able to govern themselves free to do business how they wish because everyone is honest and trustworthy). Remember the Constitution was written not what the govt can do but what it cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, Highmark said: Again this is assuming the vast majority of people are honest, trustworthy, hard working and not pieces of shit. Everything you claim in your govt would also make a capitalistic Republic better as well, I challenge you to show how it wouldn't. (people able to govern themselves free to do business how they wish because everyone is honest and trustworthy). Remember the Constitution was written not what the govt can do but what it cannot. Capitalism will always develop unjustified heirarchies and exploit labor. It also requires government to enforce property rights and issue currency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted January 11, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: Capitalism will always develop unjustified heirarchies and exploit labor. It also requires government to enforce property rights and issue currency. So historically has Communism. Its not the form of govt or type of economy that creates this....its the human condition that does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 42 minutes ago, Highmark said: So historically has Communism. Its not the form of govt or type of economy that creates this....its the human condition that does. There has never been true communism!!! Fucking a, dude. Unjustified heirarchies are not natural to the human condition, they are a function of social constructs based on a universally accepted premise i.e. Paper money, federalism, authority, capital. That's why we revolt against them from time to time, unjustified authority never lasts. Humans thrived using mutual aid rather that survivalism. We realized a long time ago that we were all individually better if we worked together as a group rather than try to make it on our own. This is the basic premise of true communism, not some over wrought fucked up definition your bourgeois high school social studies teacher taught you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 hours ago, motonoggin said: This quote is built entirely upon the fundamental belief that people are unable to govern themselves. A statist position. I completely reject that notion. just another thing your wrong about we can add to a long list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 So, what's new with the kidnap & assault case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Angry ginger said: just another thing your wrong about we can add to a long list No surprise that you're a statist as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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