XCR1250 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Anler said: Right its the prevailing wages. I am a public works contractor, I know what those are. That's correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 So, how many here were effected by this? How many were working for prevailing wage before and now took a huge pay cut. Let's get some real life experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I used to do a bunch of work in milwaukee back in the early 2000's as the construction market there was red hot. We signed an agreement with the local labor union there and they were pretty good dudes but the dnr enforcement and milwaukee enforcement people really hated illinois contractors and they used to fuck with us. They changed some of their regulations to make it harder for illinois contractors to work in wisconsin. The quick fix was to open a wisconsin office and then they will leave you alone but that would take a full time presence which we were not prepared to do at the time. I was asked by a client of mine to bid a job up there a couple years ago and I explained how difficult it would be and my price would be high but he wanted us to bid it anyway. The union presence was all but gone. Union contractors we used to bid against were bidding non union now. I knew the unions were toast at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, racer254 said: So, how many here were effected by this? How many were working for prevailing wage before and now took a huge pay cut. Let's get some real life experience. How many here work in the trades in wisconsin you fucking retard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Anler said: How many here work in the trades in wisconsin you fucking retard? I know quite a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 minute ago, racer254 said: I know quite a few. You asked how many here, not how many you know. Bottom line is if the people you know are union guys they are going to see more downward pressure on their wages as non union competition increases on public works projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Anler said: You asked how many here, not how many you know. Bottom line is if the people you know are union guys they are going to see more downward pressure on their wages as non union competition increases on public works projects. I know both. Funny but the union guys are not complaining and the non union guys are making great money. I guess real world is not like the article is portraying in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, racer254 said: I know both. Funny but the union guys are not complaining and the non union guys are making great money. I guess real world is not like the article is portraying in my area. Well my contacts there say the construction market is good there, but the sad truth is non union competition will increase and make the union contractors obsolete. Thats great if you think on union guys make sufficient wages but those union guys pension funds are toast. Ive been watching this happen all over the country over the last 10 or so years. I know a few guys who were retired and had to go back to work because their pensions went insolvent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Researchers also found that the Wisconsin Department of Transportation saw fewer bids from Wisconsin-based contractors after the laws were repealed compared to before. Between January 2015 and September 2017, more than 2,600 bids for DOT projects came from Wisconsin contractors. But between October 2017 and December 2019, following the repeal of the laws, that number dropped to a little over 1,700 bids. The drop meant the share of bids from out-of-state contractors increased from 9 percent to 13 percent in the same timeframe. "What that means is ... Wisconsin tax dollars that previously went to Wisconsin contractors and construction workers, (are) now being used to pay workers from out of state," said Duncan. "When that happens, Wisconsin tax money leaks out of Wisconsin and it stimulates economies in neighboring states instead of supporting the local economy." Seems to me this is a very telling statement and maybe there needs to be some laws put in place to keep Wisconsin taxpayer money in Wisconsin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 HAHA Unions in WI are NOT toast. I was in a trades union for some years, and my brother and many friends still are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Anler said: Well my contacts there say the construction market is good there, but the sad truth is non union competition will increase and make the union contractors obsolete. Thats great if you think on union guys make sufficient wages but those union guys pension funds are toast. Ive been watching this happen all over the country over the last 10 or so years. I know a few guys who were retired and had to go back to work because their pensions went insolvent. Right now, the construction guys I know are turning away work and are having a hard time finding employees. Hell, many employees wanted to be laid off to collect that extra unemployment. And you know if that happened, they were coming back and doing side jobs for cash. Do you think any of those guys were reporting that money as income for this study? Hell no. Regarding union pensions, maybe they should address the real problem, THE UNION leadership. If their union pension funds are toast, who is managing those funds and shouldn't those people be held responsible? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, racer254 said: Researchers also found that the Wisconsin Department of Transportation saw fewer bids from Wisconsin-based contractors after the laws were repealed compared to before. Between January 2015 and September 2017, more than 2,600 bids for DOT projects came from Wisconsin contractors. But between October 2017 and December 2019, following the repeal of the laws, that number dropped to a little over 1,700 bids. The drop meant the share of bids from out-of-state contractors increased from 9 percent to 13 percent in the same timeframe. "What that means is ... Wisconsin tax dollars that previously went to Wisconsin contractors and construction workers, (are) now being used to pay workers from out of state," said Duncan. "When that happens, Wisconsin tax money leaks out of Wisconsin and it stimulates economies in neighboring states instead of supporting the local economy." Seems to me this is a very telling statement and maybe there needs to be some laws put in place to keep Wisconsin taxpayer money in Wisconsin There is your proof right there. Out of state non union competition is stepping in like it has in other states. And in case you cant figure it out from there, that will mean less wisconsin tradesmen working on those jobs and more out of staters taking them. edit** and for less money and less benefits to boot! Edited October 7, 2020 by Anler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Legend said: HAHA Unions in WI are NOT toast. I was in a trades union for some years, and my brother and many friends still are. Not what I am hearing. Non union contractors are working all over unmolested by any union pressure. One of my competitors here in Illinois has a huge union operation in Illinois and a huge NON union operation in Wisconsin. And one of my old bosses has a big non union operation there as well. They dont try that here because they will get fucked with daily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, racer254 said: Right now, the construction guys I know are turning away work and are having a hard time finding employees. Hell, many employees wanted to be laid off to collect that extra unemployment. And you know if that happened, they were coming back and doing side jobs for cash. Do you think any of those guys were reporting that money as income for this study? Hell no. Regarding union pensions, maybe they should address the real problem, THE UNION leadership. If their union pension funds are toast, who is managing those funds and shouldn't those people be held responsible? Working for cash has nothing to do with the OP you fucking moron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Anler said: Working for cash has nothing to do with the OP you fucking moron You're kidding me right? Exactly where do you think this study got the income numbers from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, Anler said: Not what I am hearing. Non union contractors are working all over unmolested by any union pressure. One of my competitors here in Illinois has a huge union operation in Illinois and a huge NON union operation in Wisconsin. And one of my old bosses has a big non union operation there as well. They dont try that here because they will get fucked with daily. Yeah ok, maybe in fucking Wausau. Milwaukee and Madison markets are busy, especially Madison. Plenty of UNION contractors from Chicago wanting to open a shop up here too. Whats this HUGE non union shop in WI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Legend said: Yeah ok, maybe in fucking Wausau. Milwaukee and Madison markets are busy, especially Madison. Plenty of UNION contractors from Chicago wanting to open a shop up here too. Whats this HUGE non union shop in WI? I know, one of my vendors opened a shop there a few years ago. He says they are on fire. But he also said that there is no pressure on non-union. Not sure what you consider HUGE but last I talked to him he said he had 300 guys working... http://holianind.com/ Edited October 7, 2020 by Anler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Anler said: I know, one of my vendors opened a shop there a few years ago. He says they are on fire. But he also said that there is no pressure on non-union. Not sure what you consider HUGE but last I talked to him he said he had 300 guys working... http://holianind.com/ I can promise you he DOES NOT have 300 non union insulators working in SE WI. If he tells you that he is flat out lying. There is not enough work for that. That would be over 600 insulators in this market. And the removal market is a fraction heat and frost market. There is no way in hell thats happening. Also if he is a union contractor for Local 17 out of Chicago, he does not have a non union shop in Local 19 territory. Local 19 NOR local 17 would stand for that. Are you union?? Cuz the shit you are trying to say is makes no sense at all..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 5 hours ago, XCR1250 said: Go on any Wi. DOT job site and look at the posted wage white sheets, you'll be surprised at what construction people make per hour, even unskilled Laborers make more than most of us here make. I've seen the MNDOT crews in action around rural MN, and I think they could cut a few heads to save the wages of others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 45 minutes ago, Legend said: I can promise you he DOES NOT have 300 non union insulators working in SE WI. If he tells you that he is flat out lying. There is not enough work for that. That would be over 600 insulators in this market. And the removal market is a fraction heat and frost market. There is no way in hell thats happening. Also if he is a union contractor for Local 17 out of Chicago, he does not have a non union shop in Local 19 territory. Local 19 NOR local 17 would stand for that. Are you union?? Cuz the shit you are trying to say is makes no sense at all..... They have an environmental division that does asbestos/lead/mold abatement and they have a fleet of sucker trucks. Not just insulators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Anler said: They have an environmental division that does asbestos/lead/mold abatement and they have a fleet of sucker trucks. Not just insulators. No job my former employers bid on government projects were subjected to min wage stipulations, nor anything I have been asked to. But I don't bid these anymore as they aren't worth my time. Was asked recently to bid on a project, would have required a 2 week isolation just to bid, with 13 other system integrators viewing for the same job. Asked the owner why they just didn't give it to the original OEM cause that would make the most sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, Anler said: They have an environmental division that does asbestos/lead/mold abatement and they have a fleet of sucker trucks. Not just insulators. 1 hour ago, Legend said: I can promise you he DOES NOT have 300 non union insulators working in SE WI. If he tells you that he is flat out lying. There is not enough work for that. That would be over 600 insulators in this market. And the removal market is a fraction heat and frost market. There is no way in hell thats happening. Also if he is a union contractor for Local 17 out of Chicago, he does not have a non union shop in Local 19 territory. Local 19 NOR local 17 would stand for that. Are you union?? Cuz the shit you are trying to say is makes no sense at all..... Bold^^^ Sucker trucks, whatever those are would be teamsters or some shit. What do they suck? BTW I made a call. Holian is union in local 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: No job my former employers bid on government projects were subjected to min wage stipulations, nor anything I have been asked to. But I don't bid these anymore as they aren't worth my time. Was asked recently to bid on a project, would have required a 2 week isolation just to bid, with 13 other system integrators viewing for the same job. Asked the owner why they just didn't give it to the original OEM cause that would make the most sense. University of WI also has something like this. If you work on a UW project, you are getting prevailing wage either way. UW is a HUGE employer for construction work......They even have their own trades that work directly for the university. But farm out 99% of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 43 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: No job my former employers bid on government projects were subjected to min wage stipulations, nor anything I have been asked to. But I don't bid these anymore as they aren't worth my time. Was asked recently to bid on a project, would have required a 2 week isolation just to bid, with 13 other system integrators viewing for the same job. Asked the owner why they just didn't give it to the original OEM cause that would make the most sense. Well that settles it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Anler said: Well that settles it. No it doesn't but the higher up you go the less importance the union is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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