Global Temperatures Plunge. Icy Silence from Climate Alarmists

[ArcticCrusher]

26 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

Are you attempting to argue that the average person on this board knows as much about climate science as a Phd who works for NASA? 

Do you think that the CEO of a pipeline or oil company should be trusted as much as the NASA scientists?

Nobody fails a masters or Phd? Interesting way to put it. Isn't that like saying no one that makes it to the finish line fails to cross. If you have passed all of the classes, defended your thesis, made revisions etc. sure it would rare to fail.

But along the way many people drop out. From dropping out the first month of University to failing to complete a thesis people fail.

I believe the average person on this board is smart enough to realize where the climate change PHD's spas-cases are getting their bread buttered and know when to call bullshit.  

The CEO of a pipeline is much much smarter then the NASA scientist, how long do you think the NASA scientist would last in the role?

If you get through a program like say engineering, nobody fails going further to get their masters or PHD.

One third of my first year class dropped out by December, undergrad.  Nobody fails a masters or PHD unless they no longer want to do it.

So you fail to answer my question of the level of education you have, so I will ask it again.

[Ez ryder]

5 hours ago, Snoslinger said:

i already did. you have no idea what part of nature caused the warming a long time ago, for obvious reasons. today though, we have the warming in a very short amount of time, that just happens to align with the timing of industrial boom and heavy use of fossil fuels. we also have the tools to determine if it's nature or not. finally, the vast majority of scientists, and some of the fossil fuel industry itself, knows the cause, and it's not nature.

as far as the smoking analogy, i'm not surprised some of you cannot correlate what rev is saying. when the science world started "turning" on the industry, i fucking guarantee most of you would have been in here denying it. "tobacco does no harm" "tobacco causing cancer? but now that it's so obvious, much like GW is becoming, you may wake the fuck up. then you'll pull the same shit then you are now, "of course man made global warming is real"  

 

well if global warming is real why are we on a cooling trend ? U forget we changed to climate change a few yr back to keep the bullshit going to make sure the billion $ global warming of sorry my bad climate change racket rolling on

[Boered]

7 hours ago, bussman said:

It reads like he's autistic, seriously. It's why I refrain from taking a flamethrower to his drivel. 

Kneel is autistic, maybe this faggot is Kneel.

 

[Boered]

7 hours ago, revkevsdi said:

Yes. Google it.  You will be amazed.

I think it has more with you wanting to attack sentence structure instead of content. It probably has a fair bit with you being an asshole.

But the obtuse arguments from people on here raised a question for me.

How many people on here in their mid forties and up smoked in the car when the kids were young, how many wives smoked while pregnant. Did you smoke in the house? Would you think it was ok for your daughter to smoke while pregnant? Would you be ok for your son in law to take long car trips with babies in the car smoking?

The same denial came from big tobacco as big oil. The same type of people didn't want smoking bans. 

I have a question for you. If you truly buy into the hype that by cutting the amount of carbon you emit will save us, why do you heat your home, burn gasoline and for that matter, not just kill yourself?

 

[revkevsdi]

5 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

I believe the average person on this board is smart enough to realize where the climate change PHD's spas-cases are getting their bread buttered and know when to call bullshit.  

The CEO of a pipeline is much much smarter then the NASA scientist, how long do you think the NASA scientist would last in the role?

If you get through a program like say engineering, nobody fails going further to get their masters or PHD.

One third of my first year class dropped out by December, undergrad.  Nobody fails a masters or PHD unless they no longer want to do it.

So you fail to answer my question of the level of education you have, so I will ask it again.

Highschool and went straight into the family business. I redesigned the manufacturing facility, saved a huge amount on electricity and water. Which of course saved money. But I'm smart enough to ask an engineer questions, a lawyer and accountant questions. Just because I'm successful in my field I don't present that I'm smarter people who have less money than me. Your oil Company CEO's are probably born into the position as well. They don't give a shit about the environment or people. They just want to keep making money.

3 hours ago, Ez ryder said:

well if global warming is real why are we on a cooling trend ? U forget we changed to climate change a few yr back to keep the bullshit going to make sure the billion $ global warming of sorry my bad climate change racket rolling on

We are not on a cooling Trend. But that doesn't mean it won't happen in some places. The warming will affect ocean currents. That will make parts of Europe cooler.

3 hours ago, Boered said:

I have a question for you. If you truly buy into the hype that by cutting the amount of carbon you emit will save us, why do you heat your home, burn gasoline and for that matter, not just kill yourself?

 

Excellent logic from a typical dumb as fuck climate change denier. 

Why would I want to kill myself? Life is amazing.

Now time to answer my questions. 

How many of you smoked around your children? Do you still think it is safe to expose children to large amounts of second hand smoke on a daily basis?

Did you believe that cigarettes were bad 20 or 30 years ago? Do you now?

 

[Woodtick]

So I shouldn't fart in the car with my kids in it?

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

3 hours ago, Boered said:

Kneel is autistic, maybe this faggot is Kneel.

 

Shut the fuck up zoso. 

[ArcticCrusher]

39 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

Highschool and went straight into the family business. I redesigned the manufacturing facility, saved a huge amount on electricity and water. Which of course saved money. But I'm smart enough to ask an engineer questions, a lawyer and accountant questions. Just because I'm successful in my field I don't present that I'm smarter people who have less money than me. Your oil Company CEO's are probably born into the position as well. They don't give a shit about the environment or people. They just want to keep making money.

 

Ok thanks for being honest.   Now why do you feel you were the best choice to drive that business forward as opposed to another who go through a screening selection process?

You might consider yourself smart enough to ask question, but are you smart enough to understand when you are being fed BS.

The smartest people were not born into any positions,  Did you go to a private HS by any chance?

 

edit:

 

On your redesign, if the payback was not less than one year, you fell far below the norm.

Edited December 4, 2016 by ArcticCrusher

[Momorider]

19 hours ago, Edmo said:

I'm trying to figure out WTF smoking has to do with global warming.  

He is trying to rationalize he obvious massive and irreversible brain damage  

[Woodtick]

21 hours ago, Edmo said:

I'm trying to figure out WTF smoking has to do with global warming.  

Between chewing on lead paint as a kid and smoking Lucky Strikes in high school,the fucker should die any day now.

[revkevsdi]

12 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Ok thanks for being honest.   Now why do you feel you were the best choice to drive that business forward as opposed to another who go through a screening selection process?

You might consider yourself smart enough to ask question, but are you smart enough to understand when you are being fed BS.

The smartest people were not born into any positions,  Did you go to a private HS by any chance?

 

edit:

 

On your redesign, if the payback was not less than one year, you fell far below the norm.

I didn't say I was the best person to drive the business forward. I doubt I was. I've weathered 2 major recessions, the company has grown. There is every possibility that someone else would have done a much better job. There is also a very real possibility that the company would have gone under with someone else running it.

Yes, I'm smart enough to know when I'm being fed BS. Always? I doubt it. There are going to be smarter people around. 

You've turned your arguments around on yourself. Of course the smartest people weren't born into positions. That was my point about Oil CEO's being born into their positions. 

I went to a public high school.

I'd like to see some stats on one year payback regarding re-designs. How could that be the norm? If less 1 year is the norm, let's say 10 months, then the outside is 20 and the inside is 1 month. Is that what you are saying?

 

 

[02sled]

On December 2, 2016 at 7:57 AM, Kev144 said:

I thought you were a server guy?  Now you're a programmeR? 

I've been in the IT field for about 40 years. Over those years I have worked on or managed most disciplines. I didn't do programming myself. I found it boring but did know how and managed a team of about 15 programmers writing code for retail sales systems for a few years. I have also done communications networks, systems security, O/S program support and more. The latter part of my career has been data centre management which pulls a lot of those disciplines together. 

[02sled]

24 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

I didn't say I was the best person to drive the business forward. I doubt I was. I've weathered 2 major recessions, the company has grown. There is every possibility that someone else would have done a much better job. There is also a very real possibility that the company would have gone under with someone else running it.

Yes, I'm smart enough to know when I'm being fed BS. Always? I doubt it. There are going to be smarter people around. 

You've turned your arguments around on yourself. Of course the smartest people weren't born into positions. That was my point about Oil CEO's being born into their positions. 

I went to a public high school.

I'd like to see some stats on one year payback regarding re-designs. How could that be the norm? If less 1 year is the norm, let's say 10 months, then the outside is 20 and the inside is 1 month. Is that what you are saying?

 

 

Years ago a 4 or 5 yr ROI was acceptable. It's been a real long time since I have seen approval of funding for a project with a 2 yr ROI or more. If it didn't have a 2 yr or less it just wasn't going to happen 

[ArcticCrusher]

1 hour ago, revkevsdi said:

I didn't say I was the best person to drive the business forward. I doubt I was. I've weathered 2 major recessions, the company has grown. There is every possibility that someone else would have done a much better job. There is also a very real possibility that the company would have gone under with someone else running it.

Yes, I'm smart enough to know when I'm being fed BS. Always? I doubt it. There are going to be smarter people around. 

You've turned your arguments around on yourself. Of course the smartest people weren't born into positions. That was my point about Oil CEO's being born into their positions. 

I went to a public high school.

I'd like to see some stats on one year payback regarding re-designs. How could that be the norm? If less 1 year is the norm, let's say 10 months, then the outside is 20 and the inside is 1 month. Is that what you are saying?

 

 

One year is the norm for upgrades and improvements.   If the return is not there,  it gets shelved.   Not referring to greenfield projects or new capital,  but even those are not very long. 

[revkevsdi]

2 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

One year is the norm for upgrades and improvements.   If the return is not there,  it gets shelved.   Not referring to greenfield projects or new capital,  but even those are not very long. 

I said I'd like to see some stats. You makes fun of Phd's but if you asked for stats on a project and the just spouted opinion, you wouldn't be very impressed.

You also made a point of deriding business prof's. I'm sure many of them have hair brained schemes. However, your idea that it isn't worth doing without a one year payback is foolish.

How much do you pay for a business loan? A one year payback on an improvement is 100% return per annum. 

[02sled]

It's simple... there is a finite capital budget and the CEO, CFO want the best bang for the buck and will spend that finite budget on what will give them the best ROI. In todays world there are so many opportunities for a quick ROI that there isn't any money left to fund a 3, 4 or 5 year ROI. If you can invest $1M and recognize $500K to $1M in savings per year then it's a real easy sell. If you invest $1M and you're going to recognize $200K per year in savings... not likely to happen. Too many other things to spend that $1M on.

[ArcticCrusher]

1 hour ago, revkevsdi said:

I said I'd like to see some stats. You makes fun of Phd's but if you asked for stats on a project and the just spouted opinion, you wouldn't be very impressed.

You also made a point of deriding business prof's. I'm sure many of them have hair brained schemes. However, your idea that it isn't worth doing without a one year payback is foolish.

How much do you pay for a business loan? A one year payback on an improvement is 100% return per annum. 

What do you think i do for a living?  What project should I reference? 

 

[revkevsdi]

On 2016-12-02 at 7:46 AM, 02sled said:

Actually closer to reality than you think. So many times we have hired people fresh out of university and given them assignments and heard, that's not the way my professor said it is done, or that's not what I was taught. 

Give a programmer a task to read an existing data file extract and create a report on sales quantity by size and colour. Check back a couple of hours later expecting he's about done. He's working on program comments still describing every minute detail of what and how the program would work and now has multiple screens full of comments. 

Should have been a simple create sales report by size and colour. 

His response... My professor would have failed me if I did that. Most of them haven't spent a single day in the real world and have been part of the education system their entire life.

One year on the job education will teach you more than  three in university 

If that happened a lot, I would fire you. What good is a supervisor who constantly gives limited information so that his subordinates waste hours taking too long to finish a task? How many minutes would it have taken for you to properly explain what was required? Giving people who you know have no real life experience not enough info to do the job properly means you suck at your job. If you do it just so you can feel superior to them then you suck as a human. I hear stories from friends in government jobs about supervisors who give vague instructions just so they can lecture the person after they fuck up.

22 hours ago, 02sled said:

It's simple... there is a finite capital budget and the CEO, CFO want the best bang for the buck and will spend that finite budget on what will give them the best ROI. In todays world there are so many opportunities for a quick ROI that there isn't any money left to fund a 3, 4 or 5 year ROI. If you can invest $1M and recognize $500K to $1M in savings per year then it's a real easy sell. If you invest $1M and you're going to recognize $200K per year in savings... not likely to happen. Too many other things to spend that $1M on.

He said less than 1 year. 

21 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

What do you think i do for a living?  What project should I reference? 

 

You should reference more than your opinion. Perhaps business stats on what a good return is. 

If you said no to a project that would cost 1 million dollars and would pay back in 3 years in savings. How much money are you losing every year by being inefficient?

Edited December 5, 2016 by revkevsdi

[ArcticCrusher]

32 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

 

You should reference more than your opinion. Perhaps business stats on what a good return is. 

If you said no to a project that would cost 1 million dollars and would pay back in 3 years in savings. How much money are you losing every year by being inefficient?

That is the start of the thinking process.  What is the cost of production vs waste?  What does and hour of downtime cost your, what are the sources of downtime, what are the predicable failures, is there something else out there that will work better.  I am running at 60% efficiency, what does getting to 95% get me and how much does it cost.   See I execute plans, the business case must come from the end user.

For example, there is a customer of mine who's process was running at about 60% efficiency  with outdated and non integrated controls.  So they found us by referral and we quoted a process upgrade while maintaining most of the original equipment.   We got them to over 95% efficiency and the system was paid for in less than 6 months, so we have done every similar line in their plant (over 10).

 

A new line would have cost xx  million and would not have had a one year payback, but certainly not 10 years.  

Edited December 5, 2016 by ArcticCrusher

[02sled]

1 hour ago, revkevsdi said:

If that happened a lot, I would fire you. What good is a supervisor who constantly gives limited information so that his subordinates waste hours taking too long to finish a task? How many minutes would it have taken for you to properly explain what was required? Giving people who you know have no real life experience not enough info to do the job properly means you suck at your job. If you do it just so you can feel superior to them then you suck as a human. I hear stories from friends in government jobs about supervisors who give vague instructions just so they can lecture the person after they fuck up.

He said less than 1 year. 

You should reference more than your opinion. Perhaps business stats on what a good return is. 

If you said no to a project that would cost 1 million dollars and would pay back in 3 years in savings. How much money are you losing every year by being inefficient?

I give clear instructions and there is an assumption that someone understands the basics of how to code a program efficiently. Sorry to disappoint you but in this case he was given specifics. Told the name of the input file, the specifics of what the output needed to contain and a sample report of what the output format should look like. A university graduate shouldn't need someone to hold their hand every step of the way. Nobody has the time available to micro manage people and if they try to their team resents it. Don't forget they are also given every opportunity to ask any questions at any time.

There are lots of projects that require a ROI of one year or less. What I said is that the MAXIMUM I have been seeing for quite some time is 2 years. ROI over 2 years just doesn't happen and many of the 1 year to 2 year ROI also never happen. One year or less get rapid approval. Those in the 1 to 2 year ROI that do get approved are those that have a very large ROI. If it's going to save $1M plus per year with a 1 to 2 year ROI it's far more likely to get approval than a project that will save $100K per year. It's all about bang for the buck.

Do you actually understand ROI of X years. It's real simple... you spend $1M your ROI is how much the project saves annually. In todays world you spend $1M you want to save $1M in the first year or two years at max. If your project is $250K then you better have an ROI of one year or less.

Edited December 5, 2016 by 02sled

[revkevsdi]

18 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

That is the start of the thinking process.  What is the cost of production vs waste?  What does and hour of downtime cost your, what are the sources of downtime, what are the predicable failures, is there something else out there that will work better.  I am running at 60% efficiency, what does getting to 95% get me and how much does it cost.   See I execute plans, the business case must come from the end user.

For example, there is a customer of mine who's process was running at about 60% efficiency  with outdated and non integrated controls.  So they found us by referral and we quoted a process upgrade while maintaining most of the original equipment.   We got them to over 95% efficiency and the system was paid for in less than 6 months, so we have done every similar line in their plant (over 10).

 

A new line would have cost xx  million and would not have had a one year payback, but certainly not 10 years.  

What is the average budget for these upgrades. This last one you talked about. Any idea of their sales vs total budget of the project vs savings.

I don't think you are bullshitting now. It seems you deal with this every day.

I am really surprised that there a still places left standing in Canada that were running as inefficiently as your examples. I've had the compressor guys come in and make wild claims. Buy a 60 grand compressor, it will save you 30 grand per year and the government will pay 30 grand. That gets them in the door. Then when the audit is done it's 11 grand per year, 9 grand from the government and 80 grand in equipment. That's their after audit numbers and you know the new compressor is going to cost more in maintenance and that their numbers are ideal conditions. 

I guess they are use to going into places with next to no tanks and leaks all over the place. I just figured those places had all folded by now. 30 years ago my old man would walk around the plant, hear an air leak and say, "there's money pissing out of that pipe."

I would love to find something that I could spend a million dollars on and get that back in a year. 

That's the bulk of our electricity, our steam plant is efficient and our reject rate averages less than 2%. 

We've had people in to talk robotics, they look at the lines and how the product varies and give up. 

 

17 hours ago, 02sled said:

I give clear instructions and there is an assumption that someone understands the basics of how to code a program efficiently. Sorry to disappoint you but in this case he was given specifics. Told the name of the input file, the specifics of what the output needed to contain and a sample report of what the output format should look like. A university graduate shouldn't need someone to hold their hand every step of the way. Nobody has the time available to micro manage people and if they try to their team resents it. Don't forget they are also given every opportunity to ask any questions at any time.

There are lots of projects that require a ROI of one year or less. What I said is that the MAXIMUM I have been seeing for quite some time is 2 years. ROI over 2 years just doesn't happen and many of the 1 year to 2 year ROI also never happen. One year or less get rapid approval. Those in the 1 to 2 year ROI that do get approved are those that have a very large ROI. If it's going to save $1M plus per year with a 1 to 2 year ROI it's far more likely to get approval than a project that will save $100K per year. It's all about bang for the buck.

Do you actually understand ROI of X years. It's real simple... you spend $1M your ROI is how much the project saves annually. In todays world you spend $1M you want to save $1M in the first year or two years at max. If your project is $250K then you better have an ROI of one year or less.

To me the Matrix is the same whether it is 250 grand or 2.5 million. 2 years would be an awesome rate of return. What's the alternative 4 percent dividend in a bank stock?

[ArcticCrusher]

51 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

What is the average budget for these upgrades. This last one you talked about. Any idea of their sales vs total budget of the project vs savings.

I don't think you are bullshitting now. It seems you deal with this every day.

I am really surprised that there a still places left standing in Canada that were running as inefficiently as your examples. I've had the compressor guys come in and make wild claims. Buy a 60 grand compressor, it will save you 30 grand per year and the government will pay 30 grand. That gets them in the door. Then when the audit is done it's 11 grand per year, 9 grand from the government and 80 grand in equipment. That's their after audit numbers and you know the new compressor is going to cost more in maintenance and that their numbers are ideal conditions. 

I guess they are use to going into places with next to no tanks and leaks all over the place. I just figured those places had all folded by now. 30 years ago my old man would walk around the plant, hear an air leak and say, "there's money pissing out of that pipe."

I would love to find something that I could spend a million dollars on and get that back in a year. 

That's the bulk of our electricity, our steam plant is efficient and our reject rate averages less than 2%. 

We've had people in to talk robotics, they look at the lines and how the product varies and give up. 

 

To me the Matrix is the same whether it is 250 grand or 2.5 million. 2 years would be an awesome rate of return. What's the alternative 4 percent dividend in a bank stock?

Our portion was about 200K, then there was electrical and mechanical retrofits done by the customer, so about 400K in total.  The inefficiencies were not electrical waste, but running off-spec product without knowing about it until it was tested in the lab and failed, cause the existing system reported everything was fine.  They were in need of a legacy upgrade, so it was either the OEM or us.  We gave them a system that ran to much tighter specs, but more importantly, reported erratic behaviors and shut down if certain limits were exceeded thus minimizing waste.   They have also had product returned to them by their customer and that is a much bigger deal.  I do not know specifics on each line but productions rates tend to be in the thousands per hour.  The plant does about 600 million in sales.

 

We don't do much with utilities, almost all on the process side, compressors and boilers are packaged units, we are consumers.  However one project we did most of the utilities for the plant and one of the simple efficiency improvements was to operate the cooling water loop to a differential pressure at the furthest point of the recirc loop as opposed to maintaining constant header pressure.  The centrifugal pump would modulate with the load instead of waste energy deadheading.

 

On the bold, don't make me laugh.

Edited December 6, 2016 by ArcticCrusher

[02sled]

The best project I had for ROI was based on server consolidation and virtualization. Historically most servers ran at about 20% capacity most of the time. There would be periodic spikes in processing where they would hit 80%+. They tended to be one server for one system. 

Using blade chassis and VMWARE as well as a few others we reduced the number of server cabinets by 33% which reduced floor space, cooling, power consumption, hardware and software service contracts, licenses, cabling and more. ROI was 9 months. New hardware also gave better system response which was a business benefit as well. 

[Highmark]

On 12/3/2016 at 8:25 PM, revkevsdi said:

Highschool and went straight into the family business. I redesigned the manufacturing facility, saved a huge amount on electricity and water. Which of course saved money. But I'm smart enough to ask an engineer questions, a lawyer and accountant questions. Just because I'm successful in my field I don't present that I'm smarter people who have less money than me. Your oil Company CEO's are probably born into the position as well. They don't give a shit about the environment or people. They just want to keep making money.

We are not on a cooling Trend. But that doesn't mean it won't happen in some places. The warming will affect ocean currents. That will make parts of Europe cooler.

Excellent logic from a typical dumb as fuck climate change denier. 

Why would I want to kill myself? Life is amazing.

Now time to answer my questions. 

How many of you smoked around your children? Do you still think it is safe to expose children to large amounts of second hand smoke on a daily basis?

Did you believe that cigarettes were bad 20 or 30 years ago? Do you now?

 

So you were born into the family business and you care about the enviro and people but someone born into the oil business doesn't.   So glad you personally know them.  Typical hack liberal viewpoint.

As for the bold you never answered the question.   How are you dramatically limiting your carbon footprint?

I've never smoked around my kids as I feel its bad and wouldn't because of that.   If you think CO2 is so harmful to our environment how are you limiting your footprint to give your children a better life?

Edited December 6, 2016 by Highmark

[revkevsdi]

1 hour ago, Highmark said:

So you were born into the family business and you care about the enviro and people but someone born into the oil business doesn't.   So glad you personally know them.  Typical hack liberal viewpoint.

Paying people to misinform the public on fossil fuels role in climate change. That's kind of the definition of not caring about the environment

As for the bold you never answered the question.   How are you dramatically limiting your carbon footprint?

I've never smoked around my kids as I feel its bad and wouldn't because of that.   If you think CO2 is so harmful to our environment how are you limiting your footprint to give your children a better life?

I started early. Both my wife and I live close to work. No sitting for hours every week idling in traffic. I put extra insulation in my house when I built it. R 20 walls, R 40 roof. That was quite high for the time. I also insulated the basement floor and walls, put in a high efficiency furnace when the original gave out. We put in LED lights and I turn off power bars to most electronics. I don't leave the lights blazing on my home when I'm not there. I don't have spotlights shining up the property. 

I bought an eco boost truck. Yeah, I fell for the bullshit from ford. But since I haven't burned it to the ground, I think that counts as saving the environment.

I live in Ontario, Canada so I get to save the environment without trying. Windmills and solar power cranked the price of electricity through the roof. So I pay monthly to support those initiatives at home and work. It's not voluntary but I support higher prices for energy. It's really the only way people conserve. Unfortunately it costs jobs when factories close.