Ontario has gone to hell under NinnyBag

[ArcticCrusher]

22 minutes ago, irv said:

If you only knew.  

These contractors are not only brought in basically untrained, but for some, it is their first time ever working at a Nuclear Plant. 

I don't care how good, talented, or skilled you are (those are few and far between nowadays) nothing beats years of experience. But in order to hopefully obtain that experience and keep incidents, accidents at a minimum, they throw more people (contractors) at the jobs, which, of course, costs a lot more money, in hopes that more people doing less work will make fewer mistakes. (hence my comment above). 

 

What, the safety video doesn't answer all the concerns?  Lol. 

[1trailmaker]

2 hours ago, irv said:

Like I mentioned in another post/thread, people (the public) get peed at the amount of employees and the cost associated with that amount of employees. Company, from direction of the Gov't lay off/retire said employees and never rehire. The same amount of work still exists but because it is done with fewer employees, and needs to be done, O.T. is made available to the tune of 400 hrs a year (for public sector employees (Gov't restriction) but wide open/unlimited for contractors) so then when an employee makes over a $100 g's, those same people who were bitching about the amount of employees are now bitching again because said employees made over a $100 g's. 

On top of that, because these positions can't just be forgotten about and not staffed, they hire multiple contractors to do the same job as one or a few did before. The smoke and mirrors part is, the contractors are not public sector employees and therefore don't make the sunshine list but cost the company/Gov't 2-3 times as much as they did with the full time employee. 

 

as you know the people here don't care about government contractors they can make as much as they wish too,  there concerns are to make the employees make less.

Its been discussed several times

[revrnd]

Irv, you kind of answered a question I had, but I'll ask it anyways. How often is the OT involved for manpower shortage coverage rather than 'project' work over and above a 40 hour week?

An example (on a 3 8 hour shift day). Al on 3rd shift is off for holidays and since there is no extra manpower on the 3rd shift, management goes down the afternoon OT list to find a person stay an extra 4 hours each day to cover the 1st half of Al's shift. Then they go down the day shift OT list to find a person to come in early each day to cover the 2nd half of Al's shift.

I got asked this nonsense all the time, but was never interested.

And like someone else posted, lineworkers work a gazillion hours OT chasing storm damage all over the province. I've seen them working during not after a freezing rain event clearing limbs down the street from me 1 morning @ 6:30 AM. Those guys deserve every cent they make. The complainers would likely have called their boss that morning to say they couldn't make it in to the office because of the weather.

O2, another way to look @ your GO train comment. I bet there are folks that grumble about the 1M a klick cost for the 69 4 laning project. "i'll never drive on it...." 

[1trailmaker]

the 4 lane to Sudbury is well overdue, the amount of transports on 69 daily is crazy.   This extension will make it better for them and safer for all.  single lane driving with truck after truck coming at you isn't that fun.  Anyone know why they stop the south part at Nobel?

 

The 400hwy is going to be 8 lanes to Barrie.  They are already building wider bridges at Hwy 9 with new off and on ramps. and a few concession bridges are being replaced so far.

[ArcticCrusher]

8 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

as you know the people here don't care about government contractors they can make as much as they wish too,  there concerns are to make the employees make less.

Its been discussed several times

So why do they bring on contractors instead of hiring more?  Thank your union for that. 

[ArcticCrusher]

8 hours ago, revrnd said:

Irv, you kind of answered a question I had, but I'll ask it anyways. How often is the OT involved for manpower shortage coverage rather than 'project' work over and above a 40 hour week?

An example (on a 3 8 hour shift day). Al on 3rd shift is off for holidays and since there is no extra manpower on the 3rd shift, management goes down the afternoon OT list to find a person stay an extra 4 hours each day to cover the 1st half of Al's shift. Then they go down the day shift OT list to find a person to come in early each day to cover the 2nd half of Al's shift.

I got asked this nonsense all the time, but was never interested.

And like someone else posted, lineworkers work a gazillion hours OT chasing storm damage all over the province. I've seen them working during not after a freezing rain event clearing limbs down the street from me 1 morning @ 6:30 AM. Those guys deserve every cent they make. The complainers would likely have called their boss that morning to say they couldn't make it in to the office because of the weather.

O2, another way to look @ your GO train comment. I bet there are folks that grumble about the 1M a klick cost for the 69 4 laning project. "i'll never drive on it...." 

Those guys are good. 

[ArcticCrusher]

6 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

the 4 lane to Sudbury is well overdue, the amount of transports on 69 daily is crazy.   This extension will make it better for them and safer for all.  single lane driving with truck after truck coming at you isn't that fun.  Anyone know why they stop the south part at Nobel?

 

The 400hwy is going to be 8 lanes to Barrie.  They are already building wider bridges at Hwy 9 with new off and on ramps. and a few concession bridges are being replaced so far.

Both are long overdue.  I did not know it stopped at Nobel as I haven't travelled past there for some time, figured it was much further north. 

[Sksman]

9 hours ago, revrnd said:

Irv, you kind of answered a question I had, but I'll ask it anyways. How often is the OT involved for manpower shortage coverage rather than 'project' work over and above a 40 hour week?

An example (on a 3 8 hour shift day). Al on 3rd shift is off for holidays and since there is no extra manpower on the 3rd shift, management goes down the afternoon OT list to find a person stay an extra 4 hours each day to cover the 1st half of Al's shift. Then they go down the day shift OT list to find a person to come in early each day to cover the 2nd half of Al's shift.

I got asked this nonsense all the time, but was never interested.

And like someone else posted, lineworkers work a gazillion hours OT chasing storm damage all over the province. I've seen them working during not after a freezing rain event clearing limbs down the street from me 1 morning @ 6:30 AM. Those guys deserve every cent they make. The complainers would likely have called their boss that morning to say they couldn't make it in to the office because of the weather.

O2, another way to look @ your GO train comment. I bet there are folks that grumble about the 1M a klick cost for the 69 4 laning project. "i'll never drive on it...." 

Yes and when there is no storm they are the most productive crews out there?

Yes ice storms are difficult times but they are also big money times for line men.  

On March break my kids and i drove thru New York state.  They must of had a big ice storm as we saw probably  close to 100 hydro bucket trucks on hiway.  40 or so Quebec Hydro trucks, 10 or so contractors with operating for City of Toronto stickers.  Big money times no bet.

 

Why is it government workers have the reputationmof lazy, underachieving, underproductive?

Why do unions have that rap also?   I worked for one of largest Construction company in Canada.  Imsaw it.  There were some great workers and then some union protected scum that were lazy but you could not fire.

 

[1trailmaker]

2 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

So why do they bring on contractors instead of hiring more?  Thank your union for that. 

the question is why are contractors doing government work wages not posted and why do people like yourself fight against it?  the new hydro sell off part wages are not posted,  the rest are,  contracted plowing  wages are not posted,  only the ones working directly for the government  are   long list of contractors taking billions.  

You get a 10 year contract to build a highway, wages not posted but the guy filling pot holes on that same highway is.

seems strange don't you think?

 

 

[1trailmaker]

2 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Both are long overdue.  I did not know it stopped at Nobel as I haven't travelled past there for some time, figured it was much further north. 

hasn't moved in at least 3 years.  It is possible they are building bridges in the bush for work around routes.  Coming from the north they are now working past Grundy.  Highway open from hwy 64 to sudbury.

[1trailmaker]

1 hour ago, Sksman said:

On March break my kids and i drove thru New York state.  They must of had a big ice storm as we saw probably  close to 100 hydro bucket trucks on hiway.  40 or so Quebec Hydro trucks, 10 or so contractors with operating for City of Toronto stickers.  Big money times no bet.

 

Why is it government workers have the reputationmof lazy, underachieving, underproductive?

Why do unions have that rap also?   I worked for one of largest Construction company in Canada.  Imsaw it.  There were some great workers and then some union protected scum that were lazy but you could not fire.

 

and of those trucks all being paid by the same employer,  only the actual hydro trucks have their wages posted

 

on the bold,  I never saw a garbage collector lying around napping yet they are lazy unproductive.

not sure how the public judges the 100's of thousands of clerical workers as being lazy and unproductive . 

Exactly how is every Teacher lazy and unproductive? 

Nurses? lazy? unproductive? protected scum?

Doctors? lazy? overpaid?

 

tell us SK why do you think that?

 

[02sled]

37 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

the question is why are contractors doing government work wages not posted and why do people like yourself fight against it?  the new hydro sell off part wages are not posted,  the rest are,  contracted plowing  wages are not posted,  only the ones working directly for the government  are   long list of contractors taking billions.  

You get a 10 year contract to build a highway, wages not posted but the guy filling pot holes on that same highway is.

seems strange don't you think?

 

 

No it isn't strange. I see you're going to keep banging this drum as usual and as usual can't see the difference of who pays the worker. The value of the contract that the government is paying the contractor is available. That is public information. What the private contractor pays his employees who are not government employees is not.

Many people here may think that $100K  isn't a lot of money but to the average taxpayer it sure is. $100K is about double what the average person in Ontario earns.

As of September 2016, the average wage for Canadian employees was $952 a week – or just under $50,000 a year. This represents a 0.4% increase over the same period last year.

Here’s a look at the most recent average Canadian salary by province (or territory):

• Newfoundland and Labrador – $52,572
• New Brunswick – $44,044
• Nova Scotia – $44,326
• Prince Edward Island – $43,239
• Quebec – $46,114
• Ontario – $50,589
• Manitoba – $46,363
• Saskatchewan -$51,057
• Alberta – $58,133
• British Columbia – $47,914
• Yukon – $54,367
• Northwest Territories – $73,221
• Nunavut – $65,403

[revrnd]

Could the land where no construction is taking place be FN? I know there were delays down by Bala due to 'issues'.

[1trailmaker]

9 minutes ago, 02sled said:

No it isn't strange. I see you're going to keep banging this drum as usual and as usual can't see the difference of who pays the worker. The value of the contract that the government is paying the contractor is available. That is public information. What the private contractor pays his employees who are not government employees is not.

 

Why do you have no interest in these employees but have  great interest in actual government employees?  they are all paid for with tax dollars.

company owner?  why don't you have an interest in their wages, you sure do for others taking tax dollars

 

defense noticed and expected - with no explanation

[1trailmaker]

13 minutes ago, 02sled said:

Here’s a look at the most recent average Canadian salary by province (or territory):

• Newfoundland and Labrador – $52,572
• New Brunswick – $44,044
• Nova Scotia – $44,326
• Prince Edward Island – $43,239
• Quebec – $46,114
• Ontario – $50,589
• Manitoba – $46,363
• Saskatchewan -$51,057
• Alberta – $58,133
• British Columbia – $47,914
• Yukon – $54,367
• Northwest Territories – $73,221
• Nunavut – $65,403

I guess that is why the other 1/2 million workers are not on the list and will never be on it.

 

funny you argued against the average wage when licking Harpers bag over TFSA increasing,  you argued against 150k being high wages and should be considered middle class workers.

[02sled]

27 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

and of those trucks all being paid by the same employer,  only the actual hydro trucks have their wages posted

on the bold,  I never saw a garbage collector lying around napping yet they are lazy unproductive.

not sure how the public judges the 100's of thousands of clerical workers as being lazy and unproductive . 

Exactly how is every Teacher lazy and unproductive? 

Nurses? lazy? unproductive? protected scum?

Doctors? lazy? overpaid?

 

tell us SK why do you think that?

 

As for garbage collection... nobody has said they are lying around napping however the productivity metrics are an easy one. Consistently the private garbage collection has picked up more garbage per hour by weight per truck and operator. The cost per ton of garbage pick up by the private contractor has been consistently and significantly less than the cost by city employees.

As for city clerical... just my observation, every time I have had to deal with a city of Toronto administrative/clerical person it was clear that they sure weren't in a hurry to do anything. Even walking from one desk to another you would think they were in slow motion. I'm sure there are some that actually are productive but they are likely the minority.

Teachers, there are some excellent and some poor just like any job. Reality is they have an excellent life compared to just about everyone else. They just need to stop whining that they have it tough because they don't. TDSB teachers with 10 years on the job depending upon the category they are in earn between $69,180 and $94,707 per year. A full time job is 2000 hours per year with 2 weeks of vacation and statutory holidays. The average person works 250 days a year factoring in their 2 weeks vacation. This year there are 196 school days for a teacher to spend working. 54 less than the average person. Then throw in the PD days. In season the PD days sure seem to see a lot of teachers brushing up on their teaching skills on the golf course.

[02sled]

24 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

Why do you have no interest in these employees but have  great interest in actual government employees?  they are all paid for with tax dollars.

company owner?  why don't you have an interest in their wages, you sure do for others taking tax dollars

 

defense noticed and expected - with no explanation

What I am interested in is what the government pays for the contract. What the contractor pays his employees is irrelevant. If the guy filling the pot holes on the road is making over $100K then there is something wrong. Next time you're in the grocery store Fail tell them you want to know how much the guy stocking the shelves is paid.

[1trailmaker]

3 minutes ago, 02sled said:

What I am interested in is what the government pays for the contract. What the contractor pays his employees is irrelevant. If the guy filling the pot holes on the road is making over $100K then there is something wrong. Next time you're in the grocery store Fail tell them you want to know how much the guy stocking the shelves is paid.

where is you anger that there isn't a list posting in the Star about contract fees?  too funny - you don't know shit what a company is paid or the profits made. 

all government wages are public knowledge, why post them in the paper?  you argument is very weak

[Sksman]

1 hour ago, 1trailmaker said:

hasn't moved in at least 3 years.  It is possible they are building bridges in the bush for work around routes.  Coming from the north they are now working past Grundy.  Highway open from hwy 64 to sudbury.

There are swampy sections to excavate fill and cross.  Ravines to fill. Rick to blast.  Bridges to build.  

 

[1trailmaker]

9 minutes ago, 02sled said:

As for garbage collection... nobody has said they are lying around napping however the productivity metrics are an easy one. Consistently the private garbage collection has picked up more garbage per hour by weight per truck and operator. The cost per ton of garbage pick up by the private contractor has been consistently and significantly less than the cost by city employees.

As for city clerical... just my observation, every time I have had to deal with a city of Toronto administrative/clerical person it was clear that they sure weren't in a hurry to do anything. Even walking from one desk to another you would think they were in slow motion. I'm sure there are some that actually are productive but they are likely the minority.

Teachers, there are some excellent and some poor just like any job. Reality is they have an excellent life compared to just about everyone else. They just need to stop whining that they have it tough because they don't. TDSB teachers with 10 years on the job depending upon the category they are in earn between $69,180 and $94,707 per year. A full time job is 2000 hours per year with 2 weeks of vacation and statutory holidays. The average person works 250 days a year factoring in their 2 weeks vacation. This year there are 196 school days for a teacher to spend working. 54 less than the average person. Then throw in the PD days. In season the PD days sure seem to see a lot of teachers brushing up on their teaching skills on the golf course.

how many of those PD days are in the off season for golf?  you have never been on a golf course and teachers don't wear a badge saying "I am a teacher"  so how the fuck could you possibly know this as fact?  What a cry baby

 

by the way its 243 days of work if you only have 2 weeks holidays - 206 days for a teacher if you include only 2 weeks holidays.  many people have 3 or 4 weeks holidays so that gap is actually alot smaller than you think.   Either way what does that have to do with being lazy and unproductive?

 

explain the protected and lazy for all union employees

[Sksman]

Am 640 had a program on yesterday.  I thought Fail the poor government employee called a few times.   

How hard they work.  Blah blah blah.  

Amazing how entitled you feel Fail.  

 

I wonder how how long you would last in an environment where if you didn't preform your gone.  And sometimes even when you do you are gone.  

[revrnd]

2 minutes ago, Sksman said:

And sometimes even when you do you are gone.  

Sorry folks, we're moving the operations to Alabama.

[revrnd]

26 minutes ago, 02sled said:

As for garbage collection... nobody has said they are lying around napping however the productivity metrics are an easy one. Consistently the private garbage collection has picked up more garbage per hour by weight per truck and operator. The cost per ton of garbage pick up by the private contractor has been consistently and significantly less than the cost by city employees.

As for city clerical... just my observation, every time I have had to deal with a city of Toronto administrative/clerical person it was clear that they sure weren't in a hurry to do anything. Even walking from one desk to another you would think they were in slow motion. I'm sure there are some that actually are productive but they are likely the minority.

Teachers, there are some excellent and some poor just like any job. Reality is they have an excellent life compared to just about everyone else. They just need to stop whining that they have it tough because they don't. TDSB teachers with 10 years on the job depending upon the category they are in earn between $69,180 and $94,707 per year. A full time job is 2000 hours per year with 2 weeks of vacation and statutory holidays. The average person works 250 days a year factoring in their 2 weeks vacation. This year there are 196 school days for a teacher to spend working. 54 less than the average person. Then throw in the PD days. In season the PD days sure seem to see a lot of teachers brushing up on their teaching skills on the golf course.

You forgot steady days, no scheduled OT on weekends, extremely clean work environment compared to other workplaces.

If the job is SOOOOOO tough, why do we hear a lot of young people say when they finish their post-secondary education, they want to be teachers? If if was so crappy how come the boards haven't had to hire teachers from overseas (see trucking & agricultural industries)?

I don't seem to recall any whining when I was going to school, but that's all you hear now since the 90s. If the job is so shitty, take your talents elsewhere.

[1trailmaker]

13 minutes ago, revrnd said:

You forgot steady days, no scheduled OT on weekends, extremely clean work environment compared to other workplaces.

If the job is SOOOOOO tough, why do we hear a lot of young people say when they finish their post-secondary education, they want to be teachers? If if was so crappy how come the boards haven't had to hire teachers from overseas (see trucking & agricultural industries)?

I don't seem to recall any whining when I was going to school, but that's all you hear now since the 90s. If the job is so shitty, take your talents elsewhere.

because you never paid attention like you do now in your retired world.  the 70's were laced with strikes and things like that from teachers and all other unions.  One of the 2 provincial teacher strikes was 1975 the other one was 1997.

either way we were talking about lazy and unproductive, not contract talks and how hard the job is.

 

[1trailmaker]

25 minutes ago, Sksman said:

Am 640 had a program on yesterday.  I thought Fail the poor government employee called a few times.   

How hard they work.  Blah blah blah.  

Amazing how entitled you feel Fail.  

 

I wonder how how long you would last in an environment where if you didn't preform your gone.  And sometimes even when you do you are gone.  

not sure what I have to do with this, I don't complain .  But ya I did fine thanks and will continue too do so...... 

I suggest you put in an application with the government since its so easy and lucrative.