Bussman, Vince, and ZamBRO Find out About Cat Recall

[Reevester]

11 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

From what I understand, it's not widespread and the only way it can be duplicated is by long runs where the sled comes to a stop quickly.    Hard to believe Cat can't find a map for this issues but trying to protect for cooling may be an issue.  I spent a good amount of time with Team Cat when we were remapping my sled and it's amazing what you can program for but, it's  a science, watching the graph curves as we adjusted for rpms was pretty cool.

It's common. Everyone that owns one on the forums are having issues, everyone my dealer has sold is having issues and both demos they have had issues. 

Junk. 

[f7ben]

1 minute ago, Highmark said:

Not sure if this is happening on un-boosted sleds but lots of Sidewinders are having issues with belts when in a hard pull then getting off and quickly back on and snap.   Clutches are not working in tune with one another.  Basically we are adding tons of weight to the primary and it shifts out very quick.   When you get off the throttle the secondary wants to backshift quicker than the primary and you get slack on the top side of the belt.   When you get back into the throttle goes from slack to drive tension and snap.  Happens even more often in heavy load situations like in deep snow.   Not sure how the mountain guys are handling it.  

 

Belt ballooning and hitting something....was happening with the 2012's

[Zambroski]

19 minutes ago, Nazipigdog said:

A life safety issue would definitely require a mandatory recall and discontinue use. I wonder how the various DNR's and forestry depts feels about those flame throwers.

 

But so far, Polaris is the only one that has killed and maimed people with their fire traps.  But I bet you don't know about that.  Cuz......Ayte-FITTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  AYTE-FITTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   
 

[Anler]

Just now, Zambroski said:

But so far, Polaris is the only one that has killed and maimed people with their fire traps.  But I bet you don't know about that.  Cuz......Ayte-FITTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  AYTE-FITTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   
 

Hey Polaris was complete piles of shit until a couple years ago. Look who is taking their place now. 

[Snoslinger]

5 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Not sure if this is happening on un-boosted sleds but lots of Sidewinders are having issues with belts when in a hard pull then getting off and quickly back on and snap.   Clutches are not working in tune with one another.  Basically we are adding tons of weight to the primary and it shifts out very quick.   When you get off the throttle the secondary wants to backshift quicker than the primary and you get slack on the top side of the belt.   When you get back into the throttle goes from slack to drive tension and snap.  Happens even more often in heavy load situations like in deep snow.   Not sure how the mountain guys are handling it.  

 

yamaha came out with a statement that if you feel like you're getting stuck, don't use the throttle. 

 

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, Reevester said:

It's common. Everyone that owns one on the forums are having issues, everyone my dealer has sold is having issues and both demos they have had issues. 

Junk. 

Goodness.  I think another brand may be in your future!!!  Pink your next "junk" accordingly.  

Simmer.  It's just fuel in the pipe.  If you see your right leg on fire, stop, drop and roll.  Don't be a pussy. 

 

[Highmark]

6 minutes ago, f7ben said:

 

 

After calming down from laughing hysterically for 20 hours or so I have been thinking about this quite a bit. I think it has to be a combination of mapping and muffler design. There is a spot in the map that is dumping fuel with the right combination of exhaust velocity , back pressure and a design flaw in the muffler that is allowing it to retain raw fuel in the muffler.

I suspect it is a portion of the map where cat is compensating for the valves just about to be opened. They have always struggles with that portion of the map being very fat.  The "tip-in" spot in the map where the valves are about to open is tough for servo operated valves.....even if they are staged. Polaris did a great job in this area of their mapping 

This is my theory only 

I agree with the combination of map/exhaust design.   Just not sure if its at the RPM before the valves open.

Mfg have a tendency to run midrange pretty lean.  They do because so much time is spent here and they want the fuel efficiency.  

My 05 king cat had a horrible lean spot in midrange.   Granted I had a mt. head and exhaust work but EGT's would get extremely hot if I held the throttle in any range near prior to the exhaust valves opening.  Had a Boondocker fuel controller on for the other mods so I was able to fix it thru that.  

[Zambroski]

2 minutes ago, Nazipigdog said:

Hey Polaris was complete piles of shit until a couple years ago. Look who is taking their place now. 

What "place"?  Where?  AC is leading them in sales according to some sources....and pretty sure Poo can't seem to podium on the tracks.  They lost the SOOOO.....THE SOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should have stayed with Doo.  It's clear you are trying to convince yourself.  I don't blame you. 

 

[Anler]

3 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Goodness.  I think another brand may be in your future!!!  Pink your next "junk" accordingly.  

Simmer.  It's just fuel in the pipe.  If you see your right leg on fire, stop, drop and roll.  Don't be a pussy. 

 

Tom is a pretty straight shooter when it comes to sleds. This aint no zuk 800..

http://www.freedomsledder.com/index.php?/topic/12152-arctic-cat-issues-special-operations-guidelines-to-prevent-sleds-from-burning/&do=findComment&comment=432880

[f7ben]

2 minutes ago, Highmark said:

I agree with the combination of map/exhaust design.   Just not sure if its at the RPM before the valves open.

Mfg have a tendency to run midrange pretty lean.  They do because so much time is spent here and they want the fuel efficiency.  

My 05 king cat had a horrible lean spot in midrange.   Granted I had a mt. head and exhaust work but EGT's would get extremely hot if I held the throttle in any range near prior to the exhaust valves opening.  Had a Boondocker fuel controller on for the other mods so I was able to fix it thru that.  

I'm just used to the laydown motor sleds.....the 04 and up f7's , crossfires etc etc ......all of them ....700 , 800 , 1000 are all terribly fat within 200 rpm of valves opening. I was just assuming this may be the same situation ......just speculation as I see no other portion of "map events" that should give them any trouble in the map at all 

[Zambroski]

10 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Not sure if this is happening on un-boosted sleds but lots of Sidewinders are having issues with belts when in a hard pull then getting off and quickly back on and snap.   Clutches are not working in tune with one another.  Basically we are adding tons of weight to the primary and it shifts out very quick.   When you get off the throttle the secondary wants to backshift quicker than the primary and you get slack on the top side of the belt.   When you get back into the throttle goes from slack to drive tension and snap.  Happens even more often in heavy load situations like in deep snow.   Not sure how the mountain guys are handling it.  

 

Primary weight issues?  I don't know much about Yammi clutches.  I assume they are making their own though.

[Highmark]

6 minutes ago, f7ben said:

Belt ballooning and hitting something....was happening with the 2012's

Not ballooning enough to hit anything.   My upper belt shield has plenty of dust and no belt marks.  

Like I said not sure if the stock sleds are having this particular issue.   I know there are tons of alignment issues and of course that is on Cat.    

Most of the tune/clutching suppliers are leaving the secondary relatively alone while slamming a bunch of extra weight in the primary.   Makes sense they are no longer shifting in tune with one another.  

[Anler]

1 minute ago, Zambroski said:

What "place"?  Where?  AC is leading them in sales according to some sources....and pretty sure Poo can't seem to podium on the tracks.  They lost the SOOOO.....THE SOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should have stayed with Doo.  It's clear you are trying to convince yourself.  I don't blame you. 

 

I have no problem with skidoo, they make outstanding snowmobiles. I like the polaris axys chassis and this 800 has been great. The 850 sounds amazing. Thats why I snowmobile, cuz its fun and the poo axys is the most fun snowmobile ive ever ridden. And with a new 170+hp 850, its gonna be hella fun!!!!

[SnowRider]

5 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

What "place"?  Where?  AC is leading them in sales according to some sources....and pretty sure Poo can't seem to podium on the tracks.  They lost the SOOOO.....THE SOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should have stayed with Doo.  It's clear you are trying to convince yourself.  I don't blame you. 

 

AC leading Poo in sales according to SOME sources.....must be the same sources you use to gather your political opinions....  

[Highmark]

1 minute ago, Zambroski said:

Primary weight issues?  I don't know much about Yammi clutches.  I assume they are making their own though.

I don't think so.   The newer weight profiles should shift a bit slower than the stock yammie flat weight but there is so much more weight they still shift out really hard.   With very little lag and so much power they have to.  Yammie clutches are similarly to Cat/Poo.  

Reality is I don't think many have spent time tuning the secondary yet.  Stock "works" so that is what many have been leaving.   I will be trying multiple different springs and cam angles next year.   Springs are cheap, helix's not so much.  

[Snoslinger]

15 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Goodness.  I think another brand may be in your future!!!  Pink your next "junk" accordingly.  

Simmer.  It's just fuel in the pipe.  If you see your right leg on fire, stop, drop and roll.  Don't be a pussy. 

 

 

[Zambroski]

3 minutes ago, Nazipigdog said:

I have no problem with skidoo, they make outstanding snowmobiles. I like the polaris axys chassis and this 800 has been great. The 850 sounds amazing. Thats why I snowmobile, cuz its fun and the poo axys is the most fun snowmobile ive ever ridden. And with a new 170+hp 850, its gonna be hella fun!!!!

Yeah, those extra ponies are gonna be felt in the seat for sure.  Not.  I’d just do some slight clutching in the 800 and wait and see how the 850 works out.  That extra 50cc seems stupid to me on a two stroke.  I’ve long said (as have others) that 800 cc’s is the maximum that a two stroke motor can work reliably.  And even then, “iffy”.  Depends on the rider though and the level of punishment.  

[Zambroski]

3 minutes ago, SnowRider said:

AC leading Poo in sales according to SOME sources.....must be the same sources you use to gather your political opinions....  

Again, why are you here?

 

[Reevester]

13 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Goodness.  I think another brand may be in your future!!!  Pink your next "junk" accordingly.  

Simmer.  It's just fuel in the pipe.  If you see your right leg on fire, stop, drop and roll.  Don't be a pussy. 

 

Yep. They are all junk some more then others.

But yeah SNOCROSS!!!!111!!!!!

[Highmark]

7 minutes ago, f7ben said:

I'm just used to the laydown motor sleds.....the 04 and up f7's , crossfires etc etc ......all of them ....700 , 800 , 1000 are all terribly fat within 200 rpm of valves opening. I was just assuming this may be the same situation ......just speculation as I see no other portion of "map events" that should give them any trouble in the map at all 

Maybe Cat had learned a lesson then from the 8-9 EFI's.   I know those had issues of riding the midrange and burning down or after a hard pull not coming all the way off but back to midrange right into a hot spot.  This could have been mainly caused by aftermarket pipes as well.  Maybe stock sleds weren't having that issue.  

[SnowRider]

2 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Again, why are you here?

 

You? 

 

 

On the red team.  Still a joke  

[SnowRider]

@Zambroski Hey tranny boy -list your sources that show AC out selling Poo...  

[Zambroski]

4 minutes ago, Highmark said:

I don't think so.   The newer weight profiles should shift a bit slower than the stock yammie flat weight but there is so much more weight they still shift out really hard.   With very little lag and so much power they have to.  Yammie clutches are similarly to Cat/Poo.  

Reality is I don't think many have spent time tuning the secondary yet.  Stock "works" so that is what many have been leaving.   I will be trying multiple different springs and cam angles next year.   Springs are cheap, helix's not so much.  

Yeah, I’m gonna go with springs and weights with mine this summer.  I worked with Team to get a semi-custom helix cut for my 800.  Stupid crazy...and spendy if it doesn’t work cuz not many people dork with 800 clutching so resale is slow.. I think Yammi and Cat turbo guys have a great market to experiment and trade.

I don’t think I know any Yammi turbo guys.  Just Cat turbo-tards.  Whose your go-to speed shop?  Or do you just try stuff on your own?

[Anler]

2 minutes ago, SnowRider said:

@Zambroski Hey tranny boy -list your sources that show AC out selling Poo...  

Heres a source.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/454763/global-snowmobile-market-share-by-company/

[Zambroski]

5 minutes ago, Reevester said:

Yep. They are all junk some more then others.

But yeah SNOCROSS!!!!111!!!!!

I think you meant to say “Tucker!!!!”

Right?

Sled racing......meh.