Just saw this 

Royal and Kimpex both crap as far as I'm concerned. Carry on!

Amateur hour at Royals purchasing dept.  Crying to the consumers is a pathetic business practice, it's an internal matter. Who's the retard that authorized that web update?

You sound surprised Royal would do such a thing!

IMO they have always been a half ass operation, their hiring practices and staff training are a joke.

4 hours ago, dirtybeacher said:

Amateur hour at Royals purchasing dept.  Crying to the consumers is a pathetic business practice, it's an internal matter. Who's the retard that authorized that web update?

In a way I can see their approach. Kimpex is trying to price fix for their products dictating to the retailer what they must sell the product for. When the customer asks why Royal doesn't have the Kimpex product available that they want then here is a consistent message to the consumer and if you object to the distributor dictating the retail price YOU the consumer will pay to the retailer who wants to sell for less, here is who to express your dissatisfaction to.

Does Royal even have a modern website.  Its always been prrtty bad for a company based on volume rather than value add.

Always thought Royal slashed the price of products to get the sales. Make up the difference on volume. Hard for small dealers to match Royal's price. Most do it just to keep busy. 

Pretty bush league move on royals part. Playing it off like they’re doing this for the customer when really they’re undercutting other kimpex dealers and likely not respecting kimpex map policy. This sounds more like a ‘minimum advertised price’ dispute not a ‘manufacturer approved price’. 

3 hours ago, bladefever said:

Always thought Royal slashed the price of products to get the sales. Make up the difference on volume. Hard for small dealers to match Royal's price. Most do it just to keep busy. 

Thats pretty much what they do and can because extra discounts they get with volume. MAP has been around awhile buy starting to get enforced more often especially by alot of the US companies. Each year we sign a contract to honor map with different suppliers. We can sell for whatever we want within store. But advertised pricing has to be on an even playing field.

Edited October 26, 20178 yr by atc

Yes, it's called capitalism.    Does Wal-Mart and the like, do anything differently? 

The only card Kimpex might have to play, is if Royal ever signed up for this contractually (minimum MSRP). 

I'm guessing Winner's Circle is going to get busier. 

4 hours ago, bladefever said:

Always thought Royal slashed the price of products to get the sales. Make up the difference on volume. Hard for small dealers to match Royal's price. Most do it just to keep busy. 

7 hours ago, atc said:

Thats pretty much what they do and can because extra discounts they get with volume. MAP has been around awhile buy starting to get enforced more often especially by alot of the US companies. Each year we sign a contract to honor map with different suppliers. We can sell for whatever we want within store. But advertised pricing has to be on an even playing field.

My industry is the same on specific product.

It was done to help retail stores compete against the online marketers. Amazon is destroying the mom and pop outfits.

Most manufacturers in my line of work are now making "Brick and Mortar" only product that's not to be sold online.

 

Edited October 26, 20178 yr by Blackstar

10 hours ago, Sedz said:

Pretty bush league move on royals part. Playing it off like they’re doing this for the customer when really they’re undercutting other kimpex dealers and likely not respecting kimpex map policy. This sounds more like a ‘minimum advertised price’ dispute not a ‘manufacturer approved price’. 

Bang on the money, Kimpex cancelled royals account. Make no mistake. Some people don't realize the vast size of Kimpex and if you don't, do some research. Royal is just a speed bump to them and its about time someone stepped up to it. Hand me any royal catalog and I can point out blatant breaches of MAP policy. I was shocked to see that on their website and even more shocked that they went to the extra effort to print that off and hand it out at the sled show. That's just greasy. Says a lot about the maturity of the management

Pardon my ignorance on all things retail!

A MAP to me is what I keep in the saddle bag, to help me find my way. However, it sounds like price fixing if the distributor can tell the retailer what price to sell an item at.

as long as Royal pays Kimpex for the item, what business is it of them if Royal sells it for less, or am I missing something.

Personally I'm not a fan of price fixing whether it be by the manufacturer or the distributor. In this case the distributor is telling the retailer what the MINIMUM price they MUST sell the product for.

Recently a class action suit was settled by the manufacturers of foam products for price fixing. $80M

They aren't saying what Royal has to sell it for,  just what they have to show for a price on line and in the catalogue.  Royal can sell it for what ever they want in store.

30 minutes ago, 04nightfire said:

They aren't saying what Royal has to sell it for,  just what they have to show for a price on line and in the catalogue.  Royal can sell it for what ever they want in store.

What's the difference?

Are you saying that they can sell (in store) for less than they advertise?

Of course it's price fixing , if you buy a product from a supplier or wholesaler you should be able to sell it for one dollar over cost of you choose to , catalog or not . 

When a supplier dictates what everyone should sell for to make it "fair"  for everyone it takes away "fair competition " . 

If royal was nothing more than a speed bump , why is everyone complaining how they take away sales from dealers . Dealers saying ," we can't compete with Royal ".

 

sure they can , if the dealers are paying Kimpex the same price as Royal , all they have to do is say .

 

"We Will Match All Royal's Prices "

 

wait a second , that makes too much sense . 

Lets go back to trashing Royal . 

5 hours ago, Bigfish said:

Pardon my ignorance on all things retail!

A MAP to me is what I keep in the saddle bag, to help me find my way. However, it sounds like price fixing if the distributor can tell the retailer what price to sell an item at.

as long as Royal pays Kimpex for the item, what business is it of them if Royal sells it for less, or am I missing something.

Like the Liberals booze sales in grocery stores.  No competition.

21 hours ago, StevieWonder said:

Of course it's price fixing , if you buy a product from a supplier or wholesaler you should be able to sell it for one dollar over cost of you choose to , catalog or not . 

When a supplier dictates what everyone should sell for to make it "fair"  for everyone it takes away "fair competition " . 

If royal was nothing more than a speed bump , why is everyone complaining how they take away sales from dealers . Dealers saying ," we can't compete with Royal ".

 

sure they can , if the dealers are paying Kimpex the same price as Royal , all they have to do is say .

 

"We Will Match All Royal's Prices "

 

wait a second , that makes too much sense . 

Lets go back to trashing Royal . 

I've bought pretty much a full line of made In Germany woodworking power tools. Any dealer that sells at less the. List has dealer agreement pulled. 

As much as I dislike paying more:

Quality has been top notch

Salestaff has been properly trained and actually knows things about the equipment

Used resale on mint condition tools is 80 percent of new and are easy to sell as you don't have to compete with sales

Only discount allowed is free shipping 

Dealers work to provide better service to get the business rather then price race to the bottom.

 

If ya don't like businesses doing map or msrp only don't do business with them.

Edit. All dealers pay same price so margins are the same. No volume discounts.

Edited October 27, 20178 yr by Glenn in Caledon

5 hours ago, Bigfish said:

What's the difference?

Are you saying that they can sell (in store) for less than they advertise?

Yep, they can sell for less in store. Kimpex just wants them to have the same advertised price on line and in their catalogue as every other distributor of theirs.  

 

In its simplest form, Minimum Advertised Pricing (or MAP, as it is more commonly referred) is the lowest price a retailer can advertise the product for sale. Not the lowest price they can sell it in their store, but the lowest they can show online or in an advertisement. 

2 hours ago, StevieWonder said:

Of course it's price fixing , if you buy a product from a supplier or wholesaler you should be able to sell it for one dollar over cost of you choose to , catalog or not . 

When a supplier dictates what everyone should sell for to make it "fair"  for everyone it takes away "fair competition " . 

If royal was nothing more than a speed bump , why is everyone complaining how they take away sales from dealers . Dealers saying ," we can't compete with Royal ".

 

sure they can , if the dealers are paying Kimpex the same price as Royal , all they have to do is say .

 

"We Will Match All Royal's Prices "

 

wait a second , that makes too much sense . 

Lets go back to trashing Royal . 

I think you’re missing a few pieces of the puzzle here. 

I’m sure royals cost on kimpex is deeply discounted based on volume. There’s no way that they’re paying the same cost a small dealership is. 99% of the time if a dealer is matching royals price they are making way less margin. 

If kimpex has a proper MAP (minimum advertised pricing) policy royal is not allowed to advertise below the price kimpex dictates. Royal is however free to sell kimpex stuff for whatever price they feel like in their store. This isn’t price fixing at all, it’s kimpex stepping up and protecting their dealers.  

If a retailer isn’t respecting your map policy this is the best way to put an end to it. Kimpex has a pretty hot ticket item with the titan helmet right now, this is a strong move to protect that from ending up off price. 

 

Thanks for the explanation

Having never had anything to do with retail sales, I am amazed and disturbed that a distributor can exert that much control over an independent retailer.

so much for free enterprise!

12 hours ago, 04nightfire said:

Yep, they can sell for less in store. Kimpex just wants them to have the same advertised price on line and in their catalogue as every other distributor of theirs.  

 

In its simplest form, Minimum Advertised Pricing (or MAP, as it is more commonly referred) is the lowest price a retailer can advertise the product for sale. Not the lowest price they can sell it in their store, but the lowest they can show online or in an advertisement. 

In todays online world lots of people do their product research, decide what they want and then shop for price online as well. A retailer should be able to present their actual price online. It is still essentially price fixing when the manufacturer / distributor dictates otherwise. A lot of Royal's sales are online so they would have a discrepancy when someone buys online versus in store which isn't good for business.

Royal's website really needs a revamp.  I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to display the distributors price and then their sale price.  BS.

Kimpex is no different then any other manufacturer.  They have to try and maintain a price so all dealers have the ability to make some profit on each sale.  

Dealer discounts are based on volume.  Royal may get a 30% discount.  If Performance Rec gets a 15 or 20% then a MSRP $100 retail item sold by Performance Rec nets about 15 or 20 in profit.  If Royal sells at $85 and makes same $15 they still make decent profit on sale but Performance rec has no incentive to sell or push Kimpex at those prices.

Minimum price of $95 give all dealers a profit.

12 hours ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Royal's website really needs a revamp.  I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to display the distributors price and then their sale price.  BS.

I second that, unbelievable how a company that does as much business as royal has such a garbage website. 

If they had a proper site they could just show the msrp then discount it to whatever they feel like on checkout. 

Either way from what I hear a number of other brands are going to cut royal off also.