3 cents per kw

[Carlos Danger]

2 hours ago, BOHICA said:

Big oil owns alot of wind farm.  I have ran many a powerline to to BP wind farms.  They built them cause of the huge tax breaks they could claim.  Big oil loves green energy cause it is a easy way for them to bust into a part of everyone's life that they weren't involved in that much before...  green energy has allowed big oil to get into the generation of power on tax breaks.

Big Power generators love green energy as well because it gets them government subsidies and carbon offsets which are a fraction of what a coal scrubber or similar emissions device would cost.  I can't think of a single big generator who does not have a substantial investment in renewable energy  Duke, Alliant , NRG, Con Edison , etc,etc. 

[Mileage Psycho]

What about the coal miners? 

[SnowRider]

4 minutes ago, Mileage Psycho said:

What about the coal miners? 

They have Trumpcare

[Ez ryder]

4 hours ago, Woodtick said:

BP is a manufacturer of solar panels.

 

3 hours ago, Anler said:

BP maintains a large wind farm about an hour south of me that stretches from Illinois to Indiana. Im told they sell the electricity to California...  

4 hours ago, Mainecat said:

big oil (energy) hates it

just keep your mouth closed maincunt no one needs to smell all that old fart dust

[Ez ryder]

12 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

Big Power generators love green energy as well because it gets them government subsidies and carbon offsets which are a fraction of what a coal scrubber or similar emissions.   I can't think of a single big generator who does not have a substantial investment in renewable energy  Duke, Alliant , NRG, Con Edison , etc,etc

The sub-3-cents contracts that have been signed in other countries such as Chile, Dubai, and Mexico are unsubsidized, whereas U.S. prices include the 30 percent Investment Tax Credit.device would cost.  

[BOHICA]

15 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

Big Power generators love green energy as well because it gets them government subsidies and carbon offsets which are a fraction of what a coal scrubber or similar emissions device would cost.  I can't think of a single big generator who does not have a substantial investment in renewable energy  Duke, Alliant , NRG, Con Edison , etc,etc. 

This company that is going to sell this solar power is part of a larger corporation......  The article even stated this solar provider is getting a 30% government subsidy to sell a killyawiggle at 3 cents.   Its not like its a small start up or anything and all these tax benefits of these renewables go to large and wealthy corporations.

As I watched a wind farm go up in my area with BP's name on it while they were pumping oil into the gulf at a rapid rate and the wind farm just on tax credits would pay for itself in 5 years...  and that is not including the revenue generated from the turbines.   Then you factor in the laws that the utility companies have to buy this power generated wether you need it or not and wether you can get or generate power cheaper then what you have to buy from BP. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by BOHICA

[Woodtick]

3 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

This company that is going to sell this solar power is part of a larger corporation......  The article even stated this solar provider is getting a 30% government subsidy to sell a killyawiggle at 3 cents.   Its not like its a small start up or anything and all these tax benefits of these renewables go to large and wealthy corporations.

As I watched a wind farm go up in my area with BP's name on it while they were pumping oil into the gulf at a rapid rate and the wind farm just on tax credits would pay for itself in 5 years...  and that is not including the revenue generated from the turbines.   Then you factor in the laws that the utility companies have to buy this power generated wether you need it or not and wether you can get or generate power cheaper then what you have to buy from BP. 

No need to waste good facts on this stupid failed post. 

[Carlos Danger]

2 minutes ago, Ez ryder said:

The sub-3-cents contracts that have been signed in other countries such as Chile, Dubai, and Mexico are unsubsidized, whereas U.S. prices include the 30 percent Investment Tax Credit.device would cost.  

The article mentions a battery storage which is a new step.  Most new tech put out on that scale will have a launch customer which usually gives breaks/incentives to the customer (ie the generator) in order to use them as a guinea pig. I know on my side of the business we have given large incentives to our two start up customers for our new product line of generators. 

[SnowRider]

Ready anout his 10-12 years ago.  Makes sense and allows wind energy to be stored. 

But let's focus on coal and ignore science relstivr to our climate 

How the Iowa Stored Energy Park Will Work

The ISEP concept was first proposed in 2003, when members of the IowaAssociation of Municipal Utilities (IAMU) formed a study committee to explore how wind energy could be used in creative ways to supplement the state's power production.

Iowa is the third largest producer of wind energy in the United States, just behind California and Texas. To advance its leadership position in wind production even more, the IAMU study committee knew that another large wind farm -- even one containing state-of-the-art, super-efficient turbines -- would not be enough all by itself. They needed a mechanism to store energy. The committee proposed a power plant that would integrate two key elements: a 100-megawatt wind farm and a compressed air energy storage facility.

 

The idea behind ISEP is based on two successful CAES facilities already in operation -- one in Huntorf, Germany, operated by Nordwest Deutsche Kraftwerke since 1978; and another in McIntosh, Ala., operated by Alabama's Electric Cooperative since 1991. Both of these facilities store compressed air underground. The Huntorf plant uses salt caverns as its storage reservoir. The McIntosh plant uses preexisting mines.

The ISEP planning committee wanted to experiment with storing compressed air in an aquifer. An aquifer is an underground layer of rock that is capable of holding water. The rock can do this because it contains millions of tiny spaces between rock and gravel particles. These little spaces trap water and hold it. As it turns out, this highly permeable rock can also be filled with air. In fact, if you pump air into an aquifer under great pressure, it acts like a giant bubble and displaces the groundwater. A few months after it initiated the study, the committee found an aquifer near Fort Dodge, Iowa, that seemed ideal. The aquifer was close to the electric transmission grid and a gas pipeline. However, the site eventually proved unsuitable for a variety of reasons.

As the team began screening other sites, it also went through some organizational changes. In 2005, the IAMU committee passed responsibility for ISEP to the Iowa Stored Energy Park Agency (ISEPA), an Iowa corporation representing more than 130 municipal utilities in Iowa, Minnesota and the Dakotas.

Two years later, in January 2007, the agency finally completed its screening process and settled on a site just west of Dallas Center in central Iowa. The site is ideal for a few reasons. The aquifer, 3,000 feet (914 meters) below the surface, is deep and wide, which means it can store a large amount of air. Another appealing feature is the site's geology. The aquifer is comprised of layers of sandstone capped by dense shale. Sandstone is very porous and holds both air and water well. Finally, the site is within 30 miles (48.3 km) of downtown Des Moines, which is good for economic development. The agency hopes that ISEP will become a tourist destination, and being close to the state capital could bring in more traffic.

The Dallas Center site is not, however, the best wind area in Iowa. As a result, ISEPA is investigating the possibility of a remote wind farm. The agency could build the farm or it could contract with an existing privately owned wind farm. Either way, wind is a critical component of the project. In fact, using wind as an energy source is one of the main ways in which the ISEP is different from the Huntorf and McIntosh plants. Both Huntorf and McIntosh use off-peak electricity from traditional nuclear or coal-burning power plants to run the compressor that pumps air underground. ISEP will use wind-generated electricity to run the compressor and will direct any excess energy back to the grid. By using CAES and wind power together, ISEP will be able to provide an environmentally friendly, alternative energy source for homes and businesses.

In the next section, we'll look at how exactly ISEP will make electricity.

Page 2 of 3

Although wind energy is an important component of ISEP, it will not completely eliminate fossil fuels from the energy production equation. Instead, it will reduce the amount of fossil fuel used to make electricity. To understand why this is so, let's first consider a conventional turbine power plant, which relies on natural gas as its source of energy.

At the heart of such a facility is a three-section combustion turbine. The first section, the compressor, draws air into the engine and pressurizes it. The second section, the combustion system, burns a mixture of fuel and air, which produces a high-temperature, high-pressure gas stream. As the gas stream expands through the turbine, the third section, it spins rotating blades. The rotating blades perform two functions: They drive the compressor, and they spin a generator to make electricity. In fact, most of the energy used in a combustion turbine goes to running the compressor, not to generating electricity.

 

CAES improves the operating efficiency of gas turbines because compression takes place separately. Off-peak electricity runs a motor that forces air into an underground reservoir. During times of peak demand, air is released from the storage chamber and piped into the combustion system of a gas turbine. The air is already compressed, so the turbine doesn't have to run a compressor; all of the energy goes to operate the generator. As a result, much less natural gas is used.

ISEP will take this one step further by combining wind -- a clean, sustainable energy source -- with underground storage in an aquifer. The illustration below shows how ISEP will look and work. Let's walk through the steps:

1. Spinning turbines on a wind farm generate electricity as moving air blows through the blades.
2. Some of that electricity, especially during peak demand, is directed to the power grid.
3. The excess electricity is directed to a compressor that pumps air through pipes deep into the ground.
4. The air is stored in porous sandstone. As pressure rises, the air displaces groundwater like a giant bubble. In essence, the sandstone acts like a battery capable of storing about 20 weeks worth of air.
5. During the day or whenever demand peaks, the utility can draw up compressed air and feed it into the combustion system of a gas turbine. The air mixes with natural gas, and the fuel-air mixture is burned at extremely high temperatures. The turbine uses 50 percent less natural gas because it does not have to run the compressor.
6. The gas turbine operates a generator, which produces electricity.
7. Electricity is sent to homes and businesses.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/iowa-stored-energy-park1.htm

[Mileage Psycho]

1 hour ago, SnowRider said:

They have Trumpcare

Everybody has to have something  

[BOHICA]

1 hour ago, SnowRider said:

Ready anout his 10-12 years ago.  Makes sense and allows wind energy to be stored. 

But let's focus on coal and ignore science relstivr to our climate 

How the Iowa Stored Energy Park Will Work

The ISEP concept was first proposed in 2003, when members of the IowaAssociation of Municipal Utilities (IAMU) formed a study committee to explore how wind energy could be used in creative ways to supplement the state's power production.

Iowa is the third largest producer of wind energy in the United States, just behind California and Texas. To advance its leadership position in wind production even more, the IAMU study committee knew that another large wind farm -- even one containing state-of-the-art, super-efficient turbines -- would not be enough all by itself. They needed a mechanism to store energy. The committee proposed a power plant that would integrate two key elements: a 100-megawatt wind farm and a compressed air energy storage facility.

 

The idea behind ISEP is based on two successful CAES facilities already in operation -- one in Huntorf, Germany, operated by Nordwest Deutsche Kraftwerke since 1978; and another in McIntosh, Ala., operated by Alabama's Electric Cooperative since 1991. Both of these facilities store compressed air underground. The Huntorf plant uses salt caverns as its storage reservoir. The McIntosh plant uses preexisting mines.

The ISEP planning committee wanted to experiment with storing compressed air in an aquifer. An aquifer is an underground layer of rock that is capable of holding water. The rock can do this because it contains millions of tiny spaces between rock and gravel particles. These little spaces trap water and hold it. As it turns out, this highly permeable rock can also be filled with air. In fact, if you pump air into an aquifer under great pressure, it acts like a giant bubble and displaces the groundwater. A few months after it initiated the study, the committee found an aquifer near Fort Dodge, Iowa, that seemed ideal. The aquifer was close to the electric transmission grid and a gas pipeline. However, the site eventually proved unsuitable for a variety of reasons.

As the team began screening other sites, it also went through some organizational changes. In 2005, the IAMU committee passed responsibility for ISEP to the Iowa Stored Energy Park Agency (ISEPA), an Iowa corporation representing more than 130 municipal utilities in Iowa, Minnesota and the Dakotas.

Two years later, in January 2007, the agency finally completed its screening process and settled on a site just west of Dallas Center in central Iowa. The site is ideal for a few reasons. The aquifer, 3,000 feet (914 meters) below the surface, is deep and wide, which means it can store a large amount of air. Another appealing feature is the site's geology. The aquifer is comprised of layers of sandstone capped by dense shale. Sandstone is very porous and holds both air and water well. Finally, the site is within 30 miles (48.3 km) of downtown Des Moines, which is good for economic development. The agency hopes that ISEP will become a tourist destination, and being close to the state capital could bring in more traffic.

The Dallas Center site is not, however, the best wind area in Iowa. As a result, ISEPA is investigating the possibility of a remote wind farm. The agency could build the farm or it could contract with an existing privately owned wind farm. Either way, wind is a critical component of the project. In fact, using wind as an energy source is one of the main ways in which the ISEP is different from the Huntorf and McIntosh plants. Both Huntorf and McIntosh use off-peak electricity from traditional nuclear or coal-burning power plants to run the compressor that pumps air underground. ISEP will use wind-generated electricity to run the compressor and will direct any excess energy back to the grid. By using CAES and wind power together, ISEP will be able to provide an environmentally friendly, alternative energy source for homes and businesses.

In the next section, we'll look at how exactly ISEP will make electricity.

Page 2 of 3

Although wind energy is an important component of ISEP, it will not completely eliminate fossil fuels from the energy production equation. Instead, it will reduce the amount of fossil fuel used to make electricity. To understand why this is so, let's first consider a conventional turbine power plant, which relies on natural gas as its source of energy.

At the heart of such a facility is a three-section combustion turbine. The first section, the compressor, draws air into the engine and pressurizes it. The second section, the combustion system, burns a mixture of fuel and air, which produces a high-temperature, high-pressure gas stream. As the gas stream expands through the turbine, the third section, it spins rotating blades. The rotating blades perform two functions: They drive the compressor, and they spin a generator to make electricity. In fact, most of the energy used in a combustion turbine goes to running the compressor, not to generating electricity.

 

CAES improves the operating efficiency of gas turbines because compression takes place separately. Off-peak electricity runs a motor that forces air into an underground reservoir. During times of peak demand, air is released from the storage chamber and piped into the combustion system of a gas turbine. The air is already compressed, so the turbine doesn't have to run a compressor; all of the energy goes to operate the generator. As a result, much less natural gas is used.

ISEP will take this one step further by combining wind -- a clean, sustainable energy source -- with underground storage in an aquifer. The illustration below shows how ISEP will look and work. Let's walk through the steps:

1. Spinning turbines on a wind farm generate electricity as moving air blows through the blades.
2. Some of that electricity, especially during peak demand, is directed to the power grid.
3. The excess electricity is directed to a compressor that pumps air through pipes deep into the ground.
4. The air is stored in porous sandstone. As pressure rises, the air displaces groundwater like a giant bubble. In essence, the sandstone acts like a battery capable of storing about 20 weeks worth of air.
5. During the day or whenever demand peaks, the utility can draw up compressed air and feed it into the combustion system of a gas turbine. The air mixes with natural gas, and the fuel-air mixture is burned at extremely high temperatures. The turbine uses 50 percent less natural gas because it does not have to run the compressor.
6. The gas turbine operates a generator, which produces electricity.
7. Electricity is sent to homes and businesses.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/iowa-stored-energy-park1.htm

So you want to pump high pressure air underground and displace any water in aquifers just to store wind energy???   Sounds like a sound enviromentally sound plan!  Nothing would go wrong with this!  Hopefully they do this under you house.

[ICEMAN!]

59 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

So you want to pump high pressure air underground and displace any water in aquifers just to store wind energy???   Sounds like a sound enviromentally sound plan!  Nothing would go wrong with this!  Hopefully they do this under you house.

How is natural gas stored?

[BOHICA]

10 minutes ago, ICEMAN! said:

How is natural gas stored?

Underground...  Any negative impacts from storing Natural gas in aquifers????