racinfarmer Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 20 minutes ago, AK440 said: You don’t even ride so what the fuck do you know about it? Spent all winter polishing your clairvoyant acorns wondering where the snow was. Having a series where guys have to raise and lower their sleds is a really good way to eliminate participants. I don't really agree with that. There are racers that show up for only ice races or only terrain races. Not letting 850's race eliminates more people then people setting up for ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR6000RR Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 5 minutes ago, racinfarmer said: I don't really agree with that. There are racers that show up for only ice races or only terrain races. Not letting 850's race eliminates more people then people setting up for ice. Bullshit! Races have to have limits. 600 is a perfect location. Edited February 28 by ZR6000RR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Oh, ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krom Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 13 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said: Bullshit! Races have to have limits. 600 is a perfect location. really??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR6000RR Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 12 minutes ago, krom said: really??? Solid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 15 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said: Solid! I don't think that anyone was arguing that, but now I'm going to take the side of 850cc size limit in XC racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK440 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 57 minutes ago, racinfarmer said: I don't really agree with that. There are racers that show up for only ice races or only terrain races. Not letting 850's race eliminates more people then people setting up for ice. If you want to win the series than you are forced to invest a lot more time, effort and money into your sled to be competitive. It’s stupid. No one is getting rich racing XC. Any club that decides to not follow ISR rules is taking on a lot of unnecessary liability and putting their own board and members in danger of being sued if someone was to be severely injured, paralyzed or killed. Guys who say they’d race if only 850’s were allowed won’t ever race. 600’s are plenty fast and powerful enough for XC. Following ISR rules to a tee is a club’s best protection from liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 10 minutes ago, AK440 said: If you want to win the series than you are forced to invest a lot more time, effort and money into your sled to be competitive. It’s stupid. No one is getting rich racing XC. Any club that decides to not follow ISR rules is taking on a lot of unnecessary liability and putting their own board and members in danger of being sued if someone was to be severely injured, paralyzed or killed. Guys who say they’d race if only 850’s were allowed won’t ever race. 600’s are plenty fast and powerful enough for XC. Following ISR rules to a tee is a club’s best protection from liability. Even if it was all terrain races, the front runners will still be investing a lot of time and money to run up front. I know someone who used to race who'd buy 4 sleds to run Sport class. 1 for ice, 1 for terrain, 1 for the 500, 1 for terrain practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune46x Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 8 hours ago, AK440 said: If you want to win the series than you are forced to invest a lot more time, effort and money into your sled to be competitive. It’s stupid. No one is getting rich racing XC. Any club that decides to not follow ISR rules is taking on a lot of unnecessary liability and putting their own board and members in danger of being sued if someone was to be severely injured, paralyzed or killed. Guys who say they’d race if only 850’s were allowed won’t ever race. 600’s are plenty fast and powerful enough for XC. Following ISR rules to a tee is a club’s best protection from liability. You nailed it. ISR is a necessary evil. They haven't evolved completely from the glory days of ovals racing but are coming along slow but sure - its been an uphill battle with the computer age hitting and jets going bye bye. There are a ton of race series out there looking outside of isr for insurance but I would have to guess that the policy's are limited. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR6000RR Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 9 hours ago, racinfarmer said: I don't think that anyone was arguing that, but now I'm going to take the side of 850cc size limit in XC racing. Been tried. Back in the fucking 90's. To dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlafon1 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 10 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said: you post a picture of your sled yet? did I miss it? Found it for you! He doesn't ride sleds, just talks shit about snow and sleds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airflite1 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 45 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said: Been tried. Back in the fucking 90's. To dangerous. Back in the 80's it was 56hp racing, 90's they moved to 440's, as the 440's disappeared they went to 600's in the 2000's and finally to EPA compliant 600's. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 4 minutes ago, airflite1 said: Back in the 80's it was 56hp racing, 90's they moved to 440's, as the 440's disappeared they went to 600's in the 2000's and finally to EPA compliant 600's. seems too logical... at least XC still allows MODZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airflite1 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 11 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: seems too logical... at least XC still allows MODZ I forget what year Bunke's brought their SOO sled to Pine lake, everyone was blown away to see an actual Mod sled, the Mod class up till then was always used as a pre-run to get their stock sled ready for Pro-Stock. But now instead of the Pro class it looks like the Sport class is the most important, I wonder if Herf will move down? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune46x Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said: seems too logical... at least XC still allows MODZ lmao I laugh when racers bitch about needing mod sleds back - when I see on their data they're rarely using above 50% throttle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK440 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 11 hours ago, racinfarmer said: Even if it was all terrain races, the front runners will still be investing a lot of time and money to run up front. I know someone who used to race who'd buy 4 sleds to run Sport class. 1 for ice, 1 for terrain, 1 for the 500, 1 for terrain practice. You need racers to put on races. There will always be some guy who goes all out but they are exception, not the rule. They tried running a series up here of ice lake races and traditional XC races. Initially the idea was you’d show up running the same XC set up for the ice race. But they didn’t enforce anything and some guys spent more money to lower their sleds, get a second track, more studs, etc and the specialization killed the whole XC racing scene in just 2-3 years. Now they have barely anything. Pretty hard for races like the Iron Dog to continue when there are very few to no smaller, 150-200 mile events feeding into it. The simplicity of XC races is you can host an event on trails or a lake and guys can run the same sleds they already own. But once it starts getting specialized entries drop and things die off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 (edited) 23 minutes ago, AK440 said: You need racers to put on races. There will always be some guy who goes all out but they are exception, not the rule. They tried running a series up here of ice lake races and traditional XC races. Initially the idea was you’d show up running the same XC set up for the ice race. But they didn’t enforce anything and some guys spent more money to lower their sleds, get a second track, more studs, etc and the specialization killed the whole XC racing scene in just 2-3 years. Now they have barely anything. Pretty hard for races like the Iron Dog to continue when there are very few to no smaller, 150-200 mile events feeding into it. The simplicity of XC races is you can host an event on trails or a lake and guys can run the same sleds they already own. But once it starts getting specialized entries drop and things die off. you make putting on an event sound easy... maybe you should try organizing one and let us know how it goes. Edited February 28 by Crnr2Crnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 39 minutes ago, fortune46x said: lmao I laugh when racers bitch about needing mod sleds back - when I see on their data they're rarely using above 50% throttle post that FB picture from NY with the guy and his cardboard sign... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune46x Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK440 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 30 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: you make putting on an event sound easy... maybe you should try organizing one and let us know how it goes. I’ve been very involved in the past and it’s a pain in the ass. You know what’s an even bigger pain in the ass? Adding additional rules and complications to enforce. All I’m saying is if they want to run a combination series of terrain and ice, just say stock height sleds only. The entries for racing aren’t growing. Making it more expensive for the average Joe blow racer to have two, completely different set ups won’t help grow anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 10 minutes ago, AK440 said: I’ve been very involved in the past and it’s a pain in the ass. You know what’s an even bigger pain in the ass? Adding additional rules and complications to enforce. All I’m saying is if they want to run a combination series of terrain and ice, just say stock height sleds only. The entries for racing aren’t growing. Making it more expensive for the average Joe blow racer to have two, completely different set ups won’t help grow anything. I'm not interested in watching average racers on average sleds. if I want to see that I'll go up north and watch the half drunk Flatlanders from Illinois leave one of the watering holes. maybe you have me confused with the guy who thinks average clutching is good enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK440 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said: I'm not interested in watching average racers on average sleds. if I want to see that I'll go up north and watch the half drunk Flatlanders from Illinois leave one of the watering holes. maybe you have me confused with the guy who thinks average clutching is good enough? Ummm 🧐, you watch snoX that has no mods and only like 12 guys in pro. The rest are average guys on average race sleds the way they come from the factory. It doesn’t matter to me what any organization does. Grass roots racing feeds the larger circuits. Make it more difficult/expensive/uncompetitive for the average guy they don’t participate and the whole system dies. It’s already on life support, it won’t take much to knock the plug out of the wall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 6 minutes ago, AK440 said: Ummm 🧐, you watch snoX that has no mods and only like 12 guys in pro. The rest are average guys on average race sleds the way they come from the factory. It doesn’t matter to me what any organization does. Grass roots racing feeds the larger circuits. Make it more difficult/expensive/uncompetitive for the average guy they don’t participate and the whole system dies. It’s already on life support, it won’t take much to knock the plug out of the wall. Ok Ross Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune46x Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 5 hours ago, ZR6000RR said: Been tried. Back in the fucking 90's. To dangerous. by that logic everyone should be running blasts then ... and not 120hp sleds the 1999 zrt800 was rated at 110hp. the current cat xc race sled is rated at 134hp. fwiw in the haydays of Wsa/WPSA there was 12 pros on the line then too with 100% open mods and you could make a six figure salary off racing snocross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR6000RR Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 5 minutes ago, fortune46x said: by that logic everyone should be running blasts then ... and not 120hp sleds the 1999 zrt800 was rated at 110hp. the current cat xc race sled is rated at 134hp. fwiw in the haydays of Wsa/WPSA there was 12 pros on the line then too with 100% open mods and you could make a six figure salary off racing snocross. It is set up so everything is equal. Not going to change anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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