Doug Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 My home club in mid Wisconsin don't always get enough snow to groom so to keep the club financially solid we would rent out the groomer to select people during to off season for income. One person that has been rented one made us an offer to buy one and the club accepted the offer. Today we have an accepted offer for us to purchase a Case/IH quadtrac. Our club president already has a lineup to rent this one out and he purchased the feed roller that will be purchased with the tractor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 Nice!! That thing is HUGE!! We have to go with smaller groomers (We've got a Piston Bully and a BRP) that need to be able to navigate the tighter trails that run on our hill trails that go up/down the bluffs in this region. What you have there looks like a nice way to groom!! Congrats to your club 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bontz said: Nice!! That thing is HUGE!! We have to go with smaller groomers (We've got a Piston Bully and a BRP) that need to be able to navigate the tighter trails that run on our hill trails that go up/down the bluffs in this region. What you have there looks like a nice way to groom!! Congrats to your club Our trails are 90 percent open agriculture land and some small woods but we have the lanes widened out enough it will fit. The club president has 5 simular size wheeled tractors and we'll use one of them to level the plowing in the fall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 Just a tad smaller machines than your Case/IH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Bontz said: Just a tad smaller machines than your Case/IH I see behind the Bombardier you have a Sno-plane single blade drag. We have double blade Sno-plane drags and they work good for our area. You can drop the blades to fill up the drag with snow and let the snow out where the snow may have blown off. You can also cut the moguls out of the trail. Edited September 11, 2023 by Doug 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sled_Hed Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 Nice! Those are definitely a beast. Like @Bontz said that would be a tad too much around here mainly for the early season swamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Sled_Hed said: Nice! Those are definitely a beast. Like @Bontz said that would be a tad too much around here mainly for the early season swamps. We've groomed with Cat Challengers now for 6-8 years and they work well for our area. The only problem with the Challenger is the long nose and road crossing. Sometimes you can spin out as all the weights on the back of the tractor and other times if your not careful you can bang the nose down hard on the road come off of the snowbank. Done both. If we didn't have the offer to buy one of them we wouldn't have been looking. @racinfarmergave a lead on club that used 2 quadtracs to groom and had a good conversation with the club president. Lot of similarities on the terrain and area that they groom in compared to us. We don't have any swamps to deal with. Up by our place in Northern Wisconsin this would not be the place for a Quadtrac. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 Make sure you have a plan ahead of time for when you get it stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 12 minutes ago, racinfarmer said: Make sure you have a plan ahead of time for when you get it stuck. Been there with our old LMC groomer and one of the Challengers. Another tractor with a blade or in a worst case a high hoe we have access to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziemann Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 @Doug That thing is huge. It would be fun to groom with, but would be way too heavy for us up here. In farm country tho, that thing is sweet! We made the mistake of going with a 7 Series New Holland and even that was WAY too big for us up here. The weight of the 7 Series (w/ bucket) with Soucy Tracks put us over weight on many of our bridges. A machine that big also won't cross a soft swamp...... So, all of the clubs in our county (except one) have now gone to Tuckers. They are NOT perfect, but work well for our trail system and terrain. Every machine has plus's/minus's- and what works for one club won't work for the next club. I think it is awesome that you guys can have equipment like that and get income thru relationships with local farmers. WIN/WIN. Well done! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziemann Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 Grooming on a 30 degree day..... Sticky was the word for the day..... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Ziemann said: @Doug That thing is huge. It would be fun to groom with, but would be way too heavy for us up here. In farm country tho, that thing is sweet! We made the mistake of going with a 7 Series New Holland and even that was WAY too big for us up here. The weight of the 7 Series (w/ bucket) with Soucy Tracks put us over weight on many of our bridges. A machine that big also won't cross a soft swamp...... So, all of the clubs in our county (except one) have now gone to Tuckers. They are NOT perfect, but work well for our trail system and terrain. Every machine has plus's/minus's- and what works for one club won't work for the next club. I think it is awesome that you guys can have equipment like that and get income thru relationships with local farmers. WIN/WIN. Well done! The club I'm in up Nth by Three Lakes Wis. has a mix of Piston Bully's and a New Holland and John Deere with Soucy tracks. I'm not involved with the grooming up there but they break up their trails by the terrain and equipment. By us we don't have much swamp area so it's normally the John Deere. In other areas with more low area and swaps they use the Piston Bully's. They will switch equipment around as needed. Really do a nice job up there. A quadtrac would not work up there at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 11 minutes ago, Ziemann said: Grooming on a 30 degree day..... Sticky was the word for the day..... And instead of the snow flowing nicely in the drag it starts balling up and breaking up the base. Sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziemann Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 The key is an adjustable pan (Trail Setter or Trail Paver drag). When the snow starts to ball up, you adjust the front of the pan up to increase flow. Being able to move that pan front and back opens up a world of new possibilities. That style of drag is much more forgiving in the spring. I believe we were well in to April here in NW Wisconsin when I took that pic. Impact on the base is negligible. Once the April sun drops back behind the trees, the base firms up well and is rock hard by morning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziemann Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) This is a better pic of the pan's hydraulics. On this day, it was really starting to thin w/ temps nearing 36+ degrees. I believe this was the second week in April here in NW Wisconsin. Edited September 12, 2023 by Ziemann 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sled_Hed Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 6 hours ago, Ziemann said: The key is an adjustable pan (Trail Setter or Trail Paver drag). When the snow starts to ball up, you adjust the front of the pan up to increase flow. Being able to move that pan front and back opens up a world of new possibilities. That style of drag is much more forgiving in the spring. I believe we were well in to April here in NW Wisconsin when I took that pic. Impact on the base is negligible. Once the April sun drops back behind the trees, the base firms up well and is rock hard by morning. The club I groomed for had one drag with hydraulic pan 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziemann Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 Agreed 100% @Doug. There is no single piece of equipment that works for everyone. Terrain, snow conditions, trail system, swamps, bridges, etc. all play in to what is best for a particular club. Clubs that aren't open minded will struggle. In 2020 & 2021, we had some neighboring clubs do the first grooming passes of the season with their groomers thru our swamps. We just couldn't do it with a 22,000+ lbs New Holland T7. Once those neighboring clubs were able to make a first pass, the swamps then froze down well, and we were able to get thru with a T7. It brought to light the limitations of the equipment we had, how it delayed getting trails open, and the loss of revenue due to decreased grooming hours. I encourage clubs to attend groomer shows, and stay educated on all of the equipment that is out there- otherwise how else is a club going to be able to make a good educated decision? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sled_Hed Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ziemann said: Agreed 100% @Doug. There is no single piece of equipment that works for everyone. Terrain, snow conditions, trail system, swamps, bridges, etc. all play in to what is best for a particular club. Clubs that aren't open minded will struggle. In 2020 & 2021, we had some neighboring clubs do the first grooming passes of the season with their groomers thru our swamps. We just couldn't do it with a 22,000+ lbs New Holland T7. Once those neighboring clubs were able to make a first pass, the swamps then froze down well, and we were able to get thru with a T7. It brought to light the limitations of the equipment we had, how it delayed getting trails open, and the loss of revenue due to decreased grooming hours. I encourage clubs to attend groomer shows, and stay educated on all of the equipment that is out there- otherwise how else is a club going to be able to make a good educated decision? Well said. There's definitely some people that are very close minded on that subject too. I saw in the meeting minutes from my old club that they are buying a new groomer but it didn't say what brand. After buying a new Tucker 2 years ago I think it would be crazy to not try a Bully or Prinoth for the early season swamp crossing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziemann Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 Just a note- Everywhere is different. We tend to get early snow, and often deep snow before the ground is frozen. As such, a tractor is not a good option where we live. The ground pressure of a Tucker is dramatically less than what we had with the New Holland tractors. Since switching, we haven't had any issues like these: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 38 minutes ago, Ziemann said: Just a note- Everywhere is different. We tend to get early snow, and often deep snow before the ground is frozen. As such, a tractor is not a good option where we live. The ground pressure of a Tucker is dramatically less than what we had with the New Holland tractors. Since switching, we haven't had any issues like these: Around home we always encourage the sleds to ride the trails in before we start grooming early in the year but that doesn't always happen. We feel we get a better start of a base when the sleds pack the trail before we groom. Sometimes get chastised by people for not grooming right away before any sleds ride. If it's a light snow seen where most of the snow get pulled off the trail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziemann Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 16 minutes ago, Doug said: Around home we always encourage the sleds to ride the trails in before we start grooming early in the year but that doesn't always happen. We feel we get a better start of a base when the sleds pack the trail before we groom. Sometimes get chastised by people for not grooming right away before any sleds ride. If it's a light snow seen where most of the snow get pulled off the trail. Agreed- that is ideal. Unfortunately, riders tend to just ride down the middle of a trail, and fail to pack the edges. Frost penetration isn't complete, and the edges remain soft. We seem to run in to unexpected wet areas every year. Factors such as beavers, clogged creeks/ culverts, and bubbling springs seem to throw a curve ball at us every year. It's different every year. When you have 2+ feet of snow on the ground in early December, it is sometimes tough to know what is underneath. We send trail crews out to clear/clean trails in the fall, but we still run in to unexpected trail issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziemann Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 18 hours ago, Doug said: My home club in mid Wisconsin don't always get enough snow to groom so to keep the club financially solid we would rent out the groomer to select people during to off season for income. One person that has been rented one made us an offer to buy one and the club accepted the offer. Today we have an accepted offer for us to purchase a Case/IH quadtrac. Our club president already has a lineup to rent this one out and he purchased the feed roller that will be purchased with the tractor. Ummmm... We really do live in different worlds @Doug :-) That thing really is huge! I looked up that Case IH/Steiger : Operating Weight 39,325 lbs (17,838 kg) What is interesting is this year, the Governor's Council and DNR said that they would not fund trail/bridge projects to accommodate new equipment like this. So, a machine that heavy could be a huge issue if you have bridges that were built to DNR spec. What was happening is that clubs were purchasing this type of equipment, and then trying to get the Governor's Council/DNR to pay for the infrastructure upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sled_Hed Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 28 minutes ago, Ziemann said: Agreed- that is ideal. Unfortunately, riders tend to just ride down the middle of a trail, and fail to pack the edges. Frost penetration isn't complete, and the edges remain soft. We seem to run in to unexpected wet areas every year. Factors such as beavers, clogged creeks/ culverts, and bubbling springs seem to throw a curve ball at us every year. It's different every year. When you have 2+ feet of snow on the ground in early December, it is sometimes tough to know what is underneath. We send trail crews out to clear/clean trails in the fall, but we still run in to unexpected trail issues. We did alot of rolling early season. Not only for the grass but after each snow until the frost drove in. https://fb.watch/n0mRZ-R3zj/?mibextid=Nif5oz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Ziemann said: Ummmm... We really do live in different worlds @Doug :-) That thing really is huge! I looked up that Case IH/Steiger : Operating Weight 39,325 lbs (17,838 kg) What is interesting is this year, the Governor's Council and DNR said that they would not fund trail/bridge projects to accommodate new equipment like this. So, a machine that heavy could be a huge issue if you have bridges that were built to DNR spec. What was happening is that clubs were purchasing this type of equipment, and then trying to get the Governor's Council/DNR to pay for the infrastructure upgrades. Luckily for us when we started grooming with the Challengers I think the one is 24k lbs we rerouted trails to get around 2 bridges. The one we still have is only 1/2 from a neighboring club so we groom up to one side and they groom up to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriftBusta Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 The camp that 5 of us are renting this year in Maine has 2 groomers and a shortage of operators, so a couple of us might be hopping in one this year to help out. I used to run around Tug HIll with another buddy about 20 years ago, but its been a while. . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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