All,

As in the previous FS I am willing to lend my expertise like any others on this forum.  I will attempt to answer any and all relevant question you have regarding sleds, ATVs and general enforcement.  Be aware..this is not official OPP communication nor is it legal advice.  Its simply my opinion based on experience as a police officer.  For those unaware I've spent the past 10yrs working in the Snowmobile ATV Vessel Enforcement team (SAVE) and have built up a lot of experience, met many of the original members and I think we all had benefitted from the questions shared on here.  Hopefully the mods will pin this thread.  All I ask is that this thread not turn into a police bashing thread...  If that happens I will not be able to continue.  Feel free to bash away, just not in this thread please. 

 

Sean

odot1, I have a question regarding towing using a PWC. I have a 3 seater seadoo and I realize driver, spotter and 1 spot to "rescue" person being towed. Sometimes I will tow 2 people on 2 tubes or 2 kneeboards and have another 3 seater seadoo following to be the "rescue" vessel. Does having the 2nd seadoo make this legal?

Thanks

18 minutes ago, Skidood said:

odot1, I have a question regarding towing using a PWC. I have a 3 seater seadoo and I realize driver, spotter and 1 spot to "rescue" person being towed. Sometimes I will tow 2 people on 2 tubes or 2 kneeboards and have another 3 seater seadoo following to be the "rescue" vessel. Does having the 2nd seadoo make this legal?

Thanks

  Strict black/white answer..  No.   I am impressed with you foresight tho!! If you were stopped and explained to the officer just like you explained here I'd said about 75% (or greater) of the time you'd not have any issues.   Prob not the answer you wanted to hear buy I hope it helps.  In my own personal opinion, I wouldn't have an issue with it.  I'd also bet any Justice of the Peace would simply throw this out should it ever get that far.

59 minutes ago, odot1 said:

  Strict black/white answer..  No.   I am impressed with you foresight tho!! If you were stopped and explained to the officer just like you explained here I'd said about 75% (or greater) of the time you'd not have any issues.   Prob not the answer you wanted to hear buy I hope it helps.  In my own personal opinion, I wouldn't have an issue with it.  I'd also bet any Justice of the Peace would simply throw this out should it ever get that far.

Thanks! And good to know as I thought it would be legal seeing as the other seadoo can be to the person in the water quicker than I can turn and get back.

Thanks for this thread, a lot of great info in here!

 

Question - if someone operating a vessel is impaired and/or over .80, and has no PCOC, will they still lose their driver's license upon conviction? 

7 minutes ago, Puzzleboy said:

Question - if someone operating a vessel is impaired and/or over .80, and has no PCOC, will they still lose their driver's license upon conviction? 

Yes, ironically you do NOT lose your PCOC but you will be prohibited from operating a vessel AND a motor vehicle for the usual penalty periods. Oh and you will most likely be fined for not having a PCOC while operating a vessel.

Thanks Sean.  I meant, the person does not hold a PCOC, not just that they didn't have it on their person. 

Any luck with that Doral? 

just awaiting stupid bank people....better half there right now!!  How's your buddys holding up?   (on plus side...price dropped 10k!)

On 8/16/2016 at 7:33 AM, odot1 said:

The problem I DO notice is that the older the rider is the less protective gear they seem to be wearing, helmets included. 

On the idgit ledger today, a no name UTV went flying thru the village this morning. About 15 minutes later it returned. Two women in it, nether wearing a helmet. Mind you the passenger was wearing a golf visor. 

Probably didn't want to mess up their hair by wearing a helmet for their run to the LCBO for a couple of boxes of wine.

Edited August 20, 20168 yr by revrnd

11 hours ago, revrnd said:

On the idgit ledger today, a no name UTV went flying thru the village this morning. About 15 minutes later it returned. Two women in it, nether wearing a helmet. Mind you the passenger was wearing a golf visor. 

Probably didn't want to mess up their hair by wearing a helmet for their run to the LCBO for a couple of boxes of wine.

I call that job security!!!   Sad though...

Hi Sean,

Do you still need to wear an approved helmet, if your strapped into a sidexside, with an approved roll bar , while riding on logging roads up around Calabogie ? 

We were up that way a couple of weeks ago, and most of those trails are rough as hell, like travelling dried up creek beds. LOL

We were travelling 15-20 kms per hour, and it was very hot wearing a helmet.

I,m not sure who owns the land the trails were on, we only saw about a half dozen other vehicles all day.

I cann,t imagine  you guys would waste resources running those dusty old trails up that way, but are helmets law even on trails like that ?

2 minutes ago, Frostynuts said:

Hi Sean,

Do you still need to wear an approved helmet, if your strapped into a sidexside, with an approved roll bar , while riding on logging roads up around Calabogie ? 

We were up that way a couple of weeks ago, and most of those trails are rough as hell, like travelling dried up creek beds. LOL

We were travelling 15-20 kms per hour, and it was very hot wearing a helmet.

I,m not sure who owns the land the trails were on, we only saw about a half dozen other vehicles all day.

I cann,t imagine  you guys would waste resources running those dusty old trails up that way, but are helmets law even on trails like that ?

They are very rough!!!  Believe it or not we do patrol those areas...our jurisdiction is Quebec west to Trenton, Lake Ontario north to Algonquin Park.  All over!!  AS for helmets and off-road vehicles (ORV)...  the only exemption is when you are riding your own ORV on your own property, otherwise you must have one on and properly fastened.  I have a RZR with full cage and roof so I understand where you coming from...but I don't get to make the rules..

How did you get such a great job ? LOL Surprised to see you guys go up that way.

My buddy had just bought a new Polaris General, so we took it on its maiden voyage. It,s got the roll cage and roof as well, which was nice for keeping the sun off.

Cheers 

Hey Sean, I sometimes ride on the 401 shoulder to pass traffic jams. Just curious what the fine is???

Thanks!

11 hours ago, yarddawg said:

Hey Sean, I sometimes ride on the 401 shoulder to pass traffic jams. Just curious what the fine is???

Thanks!

Hey Yarddawg

 

Minimum fine will be $80 plus the court/surcharges..  total $110.  Depending on the offence issued could also carry 2 or 3 demerit points.

Sean

17 hours ago, odot1 said:

Hey Yarddawg

 

Minimum fine will be $80 plus the court/surcharges..  total $110.  Depending on the offence issued could also carry 2 or 3 demerit points.

Sean

I remember seeing signs in California say you could use the shoulder during peak traffic periods.----Ontario well.........

 

6 hours ago, gtserider said:

I remember seeing signs in California say you could use the shoulder during peak traffic periods.----Ontario well.........

 

Yes, some states have much more liberal traffic laws..  The downside I see to allowing use of the shoulders is that it really just creates another jammed lane..as well as potentially blocking access to crash scenes by emergency vehicles and tow trucks creating longer/bigger jams..

His has been good.  A couple system issues (water tank leak) and a few mechanical issues (seawater pumps, trim sender, stuff like that).  He's enjoying it though. 

If it dropped 10k in a month..... wait a couple more months!  Lol

When he bought his, they had another 6 or so people seriously interested.  Seems like a popular boat!

 

Posted August 18 · Report post

just awaiting stupid bank people....better half there right now!!  How's your buddys holding up?   (on plus side...price dropped 10k!)

 

 

2 hours ago, Puzzleboy said:

His has been good.  A couple system issues (water tank leak) and a few mechanical issues (seawater pumps, trim sender, stuff like that).  He's enjoying it though. 

If it dropped 10k in a month..... wait a couple more months!  Lol

When he bought his, they had another 6 or so people seriously interested.  Seems like a popular boat!

 

Posted August 18 · Report post

just awaiting stupid bank people....better half there right now!!  How's your buddys holding up?   (on plus side...price dropped 10k!)

 

 

Lol!!   Good idea!!!  Glad to hear hes enjoying it.  The issues don't sound too bad esp when u factor in age and hrs. Doral in general seems to be a very popular boat.  Very well built, great layouts and age well. 

Sean, what does the HTA say about cyclists when they catch up to a vehicle stopped @ an intersection (stop sign or traffic lights)? I'm pretty sure IIRC from my childhood, you're supposed to stop behind the last vehicle.

 

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 0:13 PM, revrnd said:

Sean, what does the HTA say about cyclists when they catch up to a vehicle stopped @ an intersection (stop sign or traffic lights)? I'm pretty sure IIRC from my childhood, you're supposed to stop behind the last vehicle.

 

I thought I recalled that as well...but after looking and talking to some bike enforcement officers I can't come up with anything that says what position they should be at when encountering a red light.   It would make sense to me that's as they are required to obey the HTA "rules of the road" that they'd stop in order with the cars.  But nope...nothing..  odd.  Best I could find is this:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/pdfs/cycling-skills.pdf

The layout is really nice.  Optional swim platform is massive, big enough for a Sea-Doo if desired.  And the 360 will look modern for years to come (arched side windshields give it the look of a modern mini-yacht). 

Don't know if you've water tested it yet.... but check every system if you can, in addition to the powertrain stuff.  A/C at the dock as well as on the genny, heat, fridges, water, etc.  If yours has the icemaker on the upper deck, apparently there's a fridge/freezer available that fits in the same cavity (much more useful).  He's going to order one. 

And make sure you get the adapter to draw from 2x 30amp shore supplies.... they're not cheap!

 

Lol!!   Good idea!!!  Glad to hear hes enjoying it.  The issues don't sound too bad esp when u factor in age and hrs. Doral in general seems to be a very popular boat.  Very well built, great layouts and age well. 

On 28/08/2016 at 6:07 PM, odot1 said:

I thought I recalled that as well...but after looking and talking to some bike enforcement officers I can't come up with anything that says what position they should be at when encountering a red light.   It would make sense to me that's as they are required to obey the HTA "rules of the road" that they'd stop in order with the cars.  But nope...nothing..  odd.  Best I could find is this:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/pdfs/cycling-skills.pdf

Theres been a few close calls in our area with cyclists and trucks making right turns. They skirt all past the stopped traffic behind the truck and then have to bail to avoid the trucks turning right. Sometimes you'd think they'd better understand that could mean death for them.

On an unrelated note boss got pulled over in a fair size farm tractor. OPP commercial officer was quite rude about how he was impeding traffic on a busy road. Probably had 30 vehicles behind him. He implied that we were commercial and had an obligation to let everyone pass anywhere it was safe to do so.

Local mto safety courses for trucks and farm equipment have said the entire opposite. Use the entire lane and stay in it.

Any insight?  This tractor was only 9'wide. However we travel these roads with a 17'6" wide combine. Pulling over is not an option you would still be blocking the live lane of traffic.

Edited September 18, 20168 yr by Glenn in Caledon

On 9/18/2016 at 4:34 PM, Glenn in Caledon said:

Theres been a few close calls in our area with cyclists and trucks making right turns. They skirt all past the stopped traffic behind the truck and then have to bail to avoid the trucks turning right. Sometimes you'd think they'd better understand that could mean death for them.

 

On 9/18/2016 at 4:34 PM, Glenn in Caledon said:

 

From an email I sent to a fellow cyclist a while back:

Quote

Secondly I witnessed this a few years ago as a pedestrian one evening:

 

I was standing at the southwest corner of Front and Simcoe streets. Vehicles in the eastbound curb lane were stopped while the first car in line (indicating a right turn) waited for the intersection to clear of pedestrians. All of a sudden an eastbound cyclist passed the three or four stopped cars and crossed Simcoe Street.

 

As this occurred I thought to myself that this behaviour could've ended badly. What if when the pedestrians had cleared the street and the car then made its right turn as the cyclist was going by?

I used to see a similar lack of common sense w/ pedestrians @ the Four Corners in Oshawa (King & Simcoe) all the time. People @ the SE corner would be standing on the edge of the sidewalk waiting to cross to the west (as a northbound truck indicating a right turn) would make no attempt to step back IN CASE the truck driver cut the corner too sharp & would up on the curb.

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 4:34 PM, Glenn in Caledon said:

Theres been a few close calls in our area with cyclists and trucks making right turns. They skirt all past the stopped traffic behind the truck and then have to bail to avoid the trucks turning right. Sometimes you'd think they'd better understand that could mean death for them.

On an unrelated note boss got pulled over in a fair size farm tractor. OPP commercial officer was quite rude about how he was impeding traffic on a busy road. Probably had 30 vehicles behind him. He implied that we were commercial and had an obligation to let everyone pass anywhere it was safe to do so.

Local mto safety courses for trucks and farm equipment have said the entire opposite. Use the entire lane and stay in it.

Any insight?  This tractor was only 9'wide. However we travel these roads with a 17'6" wide combine. Pulling over is not an option you would still be blocking the live lane of traffic.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/pdfs/farm-guide-farm-equipment-on-the-highway.pdf

Quote

Where to Drive on the Road HTA 148, 149 Farm equipment may be driven on the travelled portion of the road, on the shoulder portion of the road, except where prohibited, or on both portions when operating wide equipment. Narrow farm equipment should be driven completely on the travelled portion or completely on the shoulder of the road. If the driver has doubts about the safety of operating completely on the shoulder, the driver should operate completely on the travelled portion. Drivers must exercise extreme caution when it is necessary to move between the shoulder and the travelled portion of the road. Wide equipment, that requires the use of both the travelled portion and the shoulder, should be driven by using the complete portion of the travelled portion with the remaining equipment width on the shoulder. 6 Travelling partially on both travelled and shoulder portions of the road with wide or narrow equipment and not leaving the full width of the travelled portion of the road available to vehicles passing in the same direction can constitute a serious hazard for the equipment driver and motorists attempting to overtake. Farm equipment, regardless of width, must by law, give up one-half of the roadway when being overtaken or passed in the opposite direction.

In our area I've observed the farmers slow right down and pull to the right as far as is safely possible to allow traffic to clear...its just a courtesy though.  There is no legal requirement to pull right off and allow passing. 

10 hours ago, revrnd said:

 

From an email I sent to a fellow cyclist a while back:

I used to see a similar lack of common sense w/ pedestrians @ the Four Corners in Oshawa (King & Simcoe) all the time. People @ the SE corner would be standing on the edge of the sidewalk waiting to cross to the west (as a northbound truck indicating a right turn) would make no attempt to step back IN CASE the truck driver cut the corner too sharp & would up on the curb.

I see this kind of thing a lot whenever I am in downtown Toronto. You now see some of the drivers staggering their positions on the road. On a two lane road with one lane for each direction you will see one vehicle so close to the curb that a bicycle can't get between it and the curb. The vehicle behind it close to the centre line so a bicycle can't get by on the left side without going into oncoming traffic. That doesn't deter the bicycle. They go between the curb and the first vehicle then sharp turn left between the front and rear bumpers of the two vehicles then pass the next in the oncoming traffic lane.

Recently I saw a bicycle almost got hit by two separate cars. Eastbound car was making a left turn and a bicycle came up his left side just as he was about to make the turn when there was a big enough break in westbound traffic. The bicycle swerved even further left an put himself directly in front of the westbound traffic. Lots of horns and hammering brakes and the bicycle just kept on going seeming not to give a damn and likely repeat the process.

In todays world bicycles should be licensed, as well as the rider. With so many having dash cams maybe a few charges might smarten the idiots up.