Liggett Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I'm thinking of going with some C&A PRO's vs. the ProSteers with duce bars that I have on my 2014 SB Adventure. I'm very happy with my handling and steering on hardpack trails, but when the snow is soft it pushes too much. I think I've experimented with every carbide and suspension adjustment to counteract this but with the 136" STUDDED track....... It's a safety factor because I want to stay on my side of the trail, but don't want to go in creeper gear. The C&A PRO's have a side runners that I think is the exact ticket to address the situation, but I've heard they steer hard and I don't want to compromise my current hard snow performance. Opinions/experiences/suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggett Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 So , no answer, thanx. Sorry I don't have a new Matrix. I ordered the C&A XTP. All is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p51mstg Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I'm sorry I don't have any experience with C&A skis. I do have experience with SLP Straight Line Tracking and Mohawks. I don't believe either of those skis would fix the problem you describe - I think they'd probably act too much like what you already have that it wouldn't be worth it. I like both sets of SLP skis a lot and would definitely keep the skis when selling the sleds. But, I think it seems like a lot of riders prefer C&A, especially for aggressive riding. At some point, I need to replace my wife's 136" Polaris 600, and there will come a time when used sleds are more reasonable. Would you recommend the Switchback Adventure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Just changing the duallies out would help a ton. They push everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/20/2022 at 1:35 PM, Liggett said: I'm thinking of going with some C&A PRO's vs. the ProSteers with duce bars that I have on my 2014 SB Adventure. I'm very happy with my handling and steering on hardpack trails, but when the snow is soft it pushes too much. I think I've experimented with every carbide and suspension adjustment to counteract this but with the 136" STUDDED track....... It's a safety factor because I want to stay on my side of the trail, but don't want to go in creeper gear. The C&A PRO's have a side runners that I think is the exact ticket to address the situation, but I've heard they steer hard and I don't want to compromise my current hard snow performance. Opinions/experiences/suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks. Do you have your ski's shimmed? That would help some. If the ski's are not shimmed the front of the carbides wear fast and you loss the edge on them. The Pro Steers do give up some when the trails are soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggett Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 Yep. shimmed with Duce bars. No darting on hardpack. No positive turning in soft snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Liggett said: Yep. shimmed with Duce bars. No darting on hardpack. No positive turning in soft snow. I’m a proponent of all CA’’s but they aren’t dor everyone. Cost and performance isn’t either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggett Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 54 minutes ago, p51mstg said: I'm sorry I don't have any experience with C&A skis. I do have experience with SLP Straight Line Tracking and Mohawks. I don't believe either of those skis would fix the problem you describe - I think they'd probably act too much like what you already have that it wouldn't be worth it. I like both sets of SLP skis a lot and would definitely keep the skis when selling the sleds. But, I think it seems like a lot of riders prefer C&A, especially for aggressive riding. At some point, I need to replace my wife's 136" Polaris 600, and there will come a time when used sleds are more reasonable. Would you recommend the Switchback Adventure? The older Adventure like mine has tons of storage. The new ones, not so much. I wouldn't replace a 600 with an 800 or 850 because of the known reliability of the 600. I'd rebuild it. I was considering the new SLP trail ski but couldn't find any reviews from the east, so I've decided to go with the (more expensive) C&A XTP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggett Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 Just now, Zambroski said: I’m a proponent of all CA’’s but they aren’t dor everyone. Cost and performance isn’t either. I guess we'll see. I've ordered a set of XTP's with 6" shaper bars that darted like crazy on my ProSteers before I changed to the Duce bars. Tried dooleys too but they really sucked for turning. I've got my fingers crossed that I can tune out any hard steering I may encounter. I'd rather have more steering effort if it keeps me on my side if the trail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggett Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Deephaven said: Just changing the duallies out would help a ton. They push everywhere. I don't have dooleys. I have duce bars. I tried dooleys and you're correct. they were terrible pushers. There's a BIG difference between dooleys and duce bars. And my issue isn't in a situation where the carbide is going to make a big difference, its SOFT snow where I have the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 46 minutes ago, Liggett said: I guess we'll see. I've ordered a set of XTP's with 6" shaper bars that darted like crazy on my ProSteers before I changed to the Duce bars. Tried dooleys too but they really sucked for turning. I've got my fingers crossed that I can tune out any hard steering I may encounter. I'd rather have more steering effort if it keeps me on my side if the trail. They aren’t a forgiving design, none of them but, If you take a little time and adjust accordingly, they are the top ski out there. I don’t think they do well on Poo machines. I only have experience with the Razors and XT’s though. Had razors for two years then went to XT’s. Never looked back. 7 years on XT’s now. No reason for me to try anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Liggett said: I don't have dooleys. I have duce bars. I tried dooleys and you're correct. they were terrible pushers. There's a BIG difference between dooleys and duce bars. And my issue isn't in a situation where the carbide is going to make a big difference, its SOFT snow where I have the problem. Crap, sorry I read that wrong. Duece bars are way better. The SLP or C&A's will grab WAY better than the Pro Steers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggett Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Zambroski said: They aren’t a forgiving design, none of them but, If you take a little time and adjust accordingly, they are the top ski out there. I don’t think they do well on Poo machines. I only have experience with the Razors and XT’s though. Had razors for two years then went to XT’s. Never looked back. 7 years on XT’s now. No reason for me to try anything else. Where did you here that about not doing well on Poo's. Now you've got me worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p51mstg Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I wouldn't be worried at all. There are a lot of big Polaris names that use C&A skis and have for decades. It's rare to see racers who use any other brand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Liggett said: Where did you here that about not doing well on Poo's. Now you've got me worried. Just forums mostly where they tend to talk about slumdogs or curvera or snoslides or any other ski I’ve never heard of. Most don’t seem to talk much about CA’s? I also don’t know anybody in a Poo that uses them. If I had a Poo, I’d have them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, Liggett said: So , no answer, thanx. Sorry I don't have a new Matrix. I ordered the C&A XTP. All is good. you asked an aftermarket ski question in the Polaris forum... 17 hours ago, Zambroski said: I’m a proponent of all CA’’s but they aren’t for everyone. Cost and performance isn’t either. the cost of pushing through a turn and ending up in the raspberry bushes isn't either 17 hours ago, Liggett said: I guess we'll see. I've ordered a set of XTP's with 6" shaper bars that darted like crazy on my ProSteers before I changed to the Duce bars. Tried dooleys too but they really sucked for turning. I've got my fingers crossed that I can tune out any hard steering I may encounter. I'd rather have more steering effort if it keeps me on my side if the trail. C&A's, good single runner wear bars... and most importantly proper ski alignment. Followed promptly by proper FTS spring, ski shock spring and then RTS spring or torsions pressure. Snowmobile suspensions are like a teeter totter. Dial in the center and adjust the corresponding ends accordingly. Don't and you'll never have a great handling sled. Many don't and then start throwing all these band aid products on their rides like snow trackers, and quadruple runner wear bars, etc. 15 hours ago, Liggett said: Where did you here that about not doing well on Poo's. Now you've got me worried. from morons 14 hours ago, p51mstg said: I wouldn't be worried at all. There are a lot of big Polaris names that use C&A skis and have for decades. It's rare to see racers who use any other brand. look at any cross country race sled, and show me stock skis being used, they know. 14 hours ago, Zambroski said: Just forums mostly where they tend to talk about slumdogs or curvera or snoslides or any other ski I’ve never heard of. Most don’t seem to talk much about CA’s? I also don’t know anybody in a Poo that uses them. If I had a Poo, I’d have them. but, mah ski shim spacers and bergstrom triple points... Edited January 22, 2022 by Crnr2Crnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggett Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 I'm hip to the front track shock and setup. Currently I've got a HyGear dual-rate spring on my FTS and it's smooth and the sled balance is excellent for me running minimum preload. ProSteers with the duce bars are shimmed and toed out 1/8". The plan...... is to install the C&A's according to C&A instructions and ride it. I HAVE seen some conflicting reports on the web about which direction the C&A rubber goes in, and whether or not they should be shimmed from the start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Liggett said: I'm hip to the front track shock and setup. Currently I've got a HyGear dual-rate spring on my FTS and it's smooth and the sled balance is excellent for me running minimum preload. ProSteers with the duce bars are shimmed and toed out 1/8". The plan...... is to install the C&A's according to C&A instructions and ride it. I HAVE seen some conflicting reports on the web about which direction the C&A rubber goes in, and whether or not they should be shimmed from the start. It’ll take a bit of intestinal fortitude to get them on for sure. A couple of 2x6 boards cut to about two feet works as a nice trick. Follow the instructions on the rubber and toe out which runs a bit wider than normal skis. Giv’r then adjust ski pressure from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggett Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 Interesting. Can you explain the 2x6 trick? I was planning to have it on a lift for the ski changeover. I'm old ya know, and the parts don't collapse as easily as they once did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 Putting the rubbers in boiling water right before putting them on helps soften them so they squish much more easily. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayatodaU.P.eh? Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 9 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said: you asked an aftermarket ski question in the Polaris forum... the cost of pushing through a turn and ending up in the raspberry bushes isn't either C&A's, good single runner wear bars... and most importantly proper ski alignment. Followed promptly by proper FTS spring, ski shock spring and then RTS spring or torsions pressure. Snowmobile suspensions are like a teeter totter. Dial in the center and adjust the corresponding ends accordingly. Don't and you'll never have a great handling sled. Many don't and then start throwing all these band aid products on their rides like snow trackers, and quadruple runner wear bars, etc. from morons look at any cross country race sled, and show me stock skis being used, they know. but, mah ski shim spacers and bergstrom triple points... Right. Which is exactly the reason why not everyone needs aftermarket skis for their tuning and riding preferences. But meh race sled with racing skis and racing riding gear is the bestest trail sled ever! Now, where’s meh gauntlets? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayatodaU.P.eh? Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Liggett said: I'm hip to the front track shock and setup. Currently I've got a HyGear dual-rate spring on my FTS and it's smooth and the sled balance is excellent for me running minimum preload. ProSteers with the duce bars are shimmed and toed out 1/8". The plan...... is to install the C&A's according to C&A instructions and ride it. I HAVE seen some conflicting reports on the web about which direction the C&A rubber goes in, and whether or not they should be shimmed from the start. I will be interested in an honest review of a set of those C&A’s on your sled as I am always looking for possible mod ideas for my sleds. While I agree that pro steers leave some to be desired, every sled that I’ve ever ridden with C&A’s on it (always Cats btw), have steered like a dump truck. I hope you have better luck. Most Polaris trail sleds that I’ve seen as of late, have grippers on them. I’ve had thoughts of pulling the set of grippers off my RMK and giving them a shot on my Indy but I think there is better alternatives. Edited January 22, 2022 by SayatodaU.P.eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggett Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 Which is why I didn't get grippers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 hour ago, SayatodaU.P.eh? said: Right. Which is exactly the reason why not everyone needs aftermarket skis for their tuning and riding preferences. But meh race sled with racing skis and racing riding gear is the bestest trail sled ever! Now, where’s meh gauntlets? It is amazing how many are 'as they left the dealer' regardless of brand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 7 hours ago, Liggett said: I'm hip to the front track shock and setup. Currently I've got a HyGear dual-rate spring on my FTS and it's smooth and the sled balance is excellent for me running minimum preload. ProSteers with the duce bars are shimmed and toed out 1/8". The plan...... is to install the C&A's according to C&A instructions and ride it. I HAVE seen some conflicting reports on the web about which direction the C&A rubber goes in, and whether or not they should be shimmed from the start. Rode with a guy today that just put C&A's on his Doo. In the morning with tight trails mine with Pro-Steers and 6" carbides cornered on rails and his sled was darting a little. By the afternoon when the trails we loose and washed out my sled started pushing in some of the corners while his wasn't darting anymore and still holding the corners well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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