Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 16, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, frenchy said: confidence was for sure part of that but tax cuts funded via massive deficits are what fueled it. My thoughts are trump could have had solid growth numbers based solely on consumer confidence. He didn't need the massive deficits but wanted the market to reach heights never before seen no matter what, to fuel his own ego. His messaging and ability to sell people on spending, and investing in the markets would have been enough. The deficits were not driven by the tax cuts. We have no way of knowing what they would have been if the tax cuts had not been passed. Economic activity is not static. You simply can't say tax revenue and the deficit would have been X if tax cuts didn't occur. For all we know we could have been heading towards a recession that the tax cuts prevented. Edited March 16, 2020 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 Wages are stagnant and have been for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3600 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 And I'm still voting for Trump instead of Joe. How bout them apples MC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Wages are stagnant and have been for decades. What kind of raises did you give? Edited March 16, 2020 by ArcticCrusher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 36 minutes ago, Highmark said: The deficits were not driven by the tax cuts. We have no way of knowing what they would have been if the tax cuts had not been passed. Economic activity is not static. You simply can't say tax revenue and the deficit would have been X if tax cuts didn't occur. For all we know we could have been heading towards a recession that the tax cuts prevented. Trump blew the roof off with defense spending. Space force? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted March 16, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 16, 2020 Just now, spin_dry said: Trump blew the roof off with defense spending. Space force? Really? No need for that. AIr force can do anything they would do. Is it even still happening ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkevsdi Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 5 hours ago, frenchy said: if anything it should serve as a perfect example as to why spending like a drunken sailor in strong economic times is a horrible idea but the trump fun bunch will have none of that. Yup. Or giving tax cuts while the deficit is rising. Not very conservative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, steve from amherst said: No need for that. AIr force can do anything they would do. Is it even still happening ? yes he was proudly tweeting about their logo and uniforms not that long ago. They need a nice motto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkevsdi Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 40 minutes ago, Highmark said: The deficits were not driven by the tax cuts. We have no way of knowing what they would have been if the tax cuts had not been passed. Economic activity is not static. You simply can't say tax revenue and the deficit would have been X if tax cuts didn't occur. For all we know we could have been heading towards a recession that the tax cuts prevented. But Dumold Trump said Donald Trump insists he would be able to wipe out the United States’s debt in eight years. The Republican presidential front-runner said in a wide-ranging interview with The Washington Postthat he’d be able to get rid of the more than $19 trillion debt “over a period of eight years.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, revkevsdi said: But Dumold Trump said Donald Trump insists he would be able to wipe out the United States’s debt in eight years. The Republican presidential front-runner said in a wide-ranging interview with The Washington Postthat he’d be able to get rid of the more than $19 trillion debt “over a period of eight years.” He's got 4 more years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkevsdi Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Just now, ArcticCrusher said: He's got 4 more years and added 3 trillion to make it a challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, revkevsdi said: But Dumold Trump said Donald Trump insists he would be able to wipe out the United States’s debt in eight years. The Republican presidential front-runner said in a wide-ranging interview with The Washington Postthat he’d be able to get rid of the more than $19 trillion debt “over a period of eight years.” hey he's only added a few trillion to that. He's going to get back 6 trillion a year during his second term to wipe it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkevsdi Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, revkevsdi said: and added 3 trillion to make it a challenge. My bad. Make that 4 trillion . The debt went up a higher percentage than the stock market. Edited March 16, 2020 by revkevsdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 16, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, spin_dry said: Trump blew the roof off with defense spending. Space force? Really? I was never for that or the increase in defense spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jkw Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Highmark said: The deficits were not driven by the tax cuts. We have no way of knowing what they would have been if the tax cuts had not been passed. Economic activity is not static. You simply can't say tax revenue and the deficit would have been X if tax cuts didn't occur. For all we know we could have been heading towards a recession that the tax cuts prevented. We do know for sure, with no doubt at all that the deficit did balloon after the tax cuts, it is only a guess that a recession would have happened without the tax cuts, given that emerging markets hit a record high in 2017 and UE was under 5%. We also know that the US never hit the 4.4 GDP needed to cover the costs of the cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 16, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, 1jkw said: We do know for sure, with no doubt at all that the deficit did balloon after the tax cuts, it is only a guess that a recession would have happened without the tax cuts, given that emerging markets hit a record high in 2017 and UE was under 5%. We also know that the US never hit the 4.4 GDP needed to cover the costs of the cuts. Wrong. We have no idea what tax revenue would have been....no idea. It could have been less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jkw Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, Highmark said: Wrong. We have no idea what tax revenue would have been....no idea. It could have been less. No the proof is in the numbers, the deficit was lower before, higher after, don't overthink the obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 16, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, 1jkw said: No the proof is in the numbers, the deficit was lower before, higher after, don't overthink the obvious. tax revenue was up 4%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 Well what else is Trump gonna lean on .....his economic crutch is broken off. The market is 361 points above the day he took office 38 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jkw Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 23 minutes ago, Highmark said: tax revenue was up 4%. UE was lower too. Not to mention the larger quarterly tax payments due to prevailing wage jobs due to gov. contracts from the large increase in spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchy Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 48 minutes ago, 1jkw said: We do know for sure, with no doubt at all that the deficit did balloon after the tax cuts, it is only a guess that a recession would have happened without the tax cuts, given that emerging markets hit a record high in 2017 and UE was under 5%. We also know that the US never hit the 4.4 GDP needed to cover the costs of the cuts. That is fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 16, 2020 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, 1jkw said: UE was lower too. Not to mention the larger quarterly tax payments due to prevailing wage jobs due to gov. contracts from the large increase in spending. You need to read up on the switch to cash method. Reduced my estimates in 19 to almost zero. That comes back in 2020. Tons of extremely successful s corps took advantage. It will be huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 You would not believe how much I lost today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchy Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Polaris 550 said: You would not believe how much I lost today. 20-30-40-50% of zero is still zero. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jkw Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, Highmark said: You need to read up on the switch to cash method. Reduced my estimates in 19 to almost zero. That comes back in 2020. Tons of extremely successful s corps took advantage. It will be huge. You need to read what thousands of economists said about the tax cuts ballooning the deficit. You can also hear Trumps own advisor state that 4.4 GDP was needed to cover the cost of tax breaks, and that GDP would be there easily. We are at 107% of GDP now, over 3% higher than Obama ever had, deficit has nearly doubled the tax collected will need to be really huge to offset that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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