Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted June 10, 2019 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, Seatofmtpants said: This article is shit.......here's why. Most of these suggestions are expensive as hell and don't fix the problem. Most of what causes a road to fail is what is underneath the surface. I wont talk bridges because I don't mess with that stuff. Porous asphalt exists and will not survive in that region, because of the freeze-thaw. Rubberized asphalt doesn't work....... we already put some plastic in (vestoplast for example) and they fail early too....... pig shit doesn't make asphalt either....... I do agree with making the road bases thicker, that part I can get on board with. Most roads are either too thin, have failed past the point of remediation, or are incorrectly designed (meaning the actual material). MI would be smart to incorporate more polymer into the mixes up there to help combat the vast temperature swings IMO...... That and allow more RAP into the mixes to drive manufacturing costs down (more lane miles paved on budget). Just my quick thoughts...... So there is no sense in looking for better materials and methods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Seatofmtpants said: This article is shit.......here's why. Most of these suggestions are expensive as hell and don't fix the problem. Most of what causes a road to fail is what is underneath the surface. I wont talk bridges because I don't mess with that stuff. Porous asphalt exists and will not survive in that region, because of the freeze-thaw. Rubberized asphalt doesn't work....... we already put some plastic in (vestoplast for example) and they fail early too....... pig shit doesn't make asphalt either....... I do agree with making the road bases thicker, that part I can get on board with. Most roads are either too thin, have failed past the point of remediation, or are incorrectly designed (meaning the actual material). MI would be smart to incorporate more polymer into the mixes up there to help combat the vast temperature swings IMO...... That and allow more RAP into the mixes to drive manufacturing costs down (more lane miles paved on budget). Just my quick thoughts...... The use of carbon fiber in bridge construction makes a lot of sense. Strong, lightweight, zero corrosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertising Member Seatofmypants Posted June 10, 2019 Advertising Member Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, spin_dry said: The use of carbon fiber in bridge construction makes a lot of sense. Strong, lightweight, zero corrosion. I dont know about the cost vs standard steel and concrete but I'd assume it to be exponentially more expensive. Better materials is for sure the way forward though. HMA has came a long way in the past 15 years..... but some technologies are just crap. Ultra-thin wearing courses are junk for example as are warm mix technologies.... but thats just me. GAP and polymer mixes are advancing quickly, but when we mill up roads you have to be able to ise it back in the mix.....otherwise it is landfilled or wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertising Member Seatofmypants Posted June 10, 2019 Advertising Member Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jimmy Snacks said: So there is no sense in looking for better materials and methods? See above. Thats exactly whats needed, that article is referencing (for the most part) very old technology. Edited June 10, 2019 by Seatofmtpants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Just now, Seatofmtpants said: I dont know about the cost vs standard steel and concrete but I'd assume it to be exponentially more expensive. Better materials is for sure the way forward though. HMA has came a long way in the past 15 years..... but some technologies are just crap. Ultra-thin wearing courses are junk for example as are warm mix technologies.... but thats just me. GAP and polymer mixes are advancing quickly, but when we mill up roads you have to be able to ise it back in the mix.....otherwise it is landfilled or wasted. Do you think that road and bridge materials have improved in technology in the same way as other items have? Could more have been done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertising Member Seatofmypants Posted June 10, 2019 Advertising Member Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, spin_dry said: Do you think that road and bridge materials have improved in technology in the same way as other items have? Could more have been done? Well thats tough. Its a low bid system ran by and inspected by the government.... so they will only let us do whats specified..... For example: we designed and placed 5 different materials on the same stretch of road (adjoining sections).... now why would that be??? Different engineers.... but why different mixes? Same traffic, same weather, same subgrade just different SHA designer. If industry was able to design and build projects (with a guarentee) then innovation would thrive.... doing what the book says isn't always the best. Buttttt..... muh roads...... Typed on my phone so ignore the grammer Edited June 10, 2019 by Seatofmtpants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertising Member Seatofmypants Posted June 10, 2019 Advertising Member Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) The company I work for makes about 750k tons of asphalt a year. Edited June 10, 2019 by Seatofmtpants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwytohell Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Hey Jimmy ! ; https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/natural-gas/061019-propane-likely-to-shift-to-rail-if-michigan-forces-enbridge-to-shut-line-5 Early this week on WJR there was a good interview , the state transportation people pre estimates are 2000 tanker trucks per day or 500 rail cars per day 4-1 average. IF ?? the MI Gov. + A.G. pull the plug on line 5 . Rumors are floating that the state has offers from multi investors to purchase the state owned Gaylord n- s trackage that ends at the old Wickes lumber warehouse plus the rail banked line to Mac City . Rails were pulled years ago when it was owned outright by the Pinkerton family AKA as the long gone Detroit and Mackinaw Railroad , now Lake state Railroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTIE KATZ Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) Posted Monday at 03:42 PM (edited) The company I work for makes about 750k tons of asphalt a year. Edited Monday at 03:42 PM by Seatofmtpants Mine also, probably exceed 800k this season with projects on the books already. Gonna be crazy 2019 paving season! Edited June 12, 2019 by ARTIE KATZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washedupmxer Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 On 6/10/2019 at 9:13 AM, racer254 said: Does it list how to stop raiding from the transportation fund? Thats been problem a1 for the last two decades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted June 12, 2019 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 12, 2019 3 hours ago, hwytohell said: Hey Jimmy ! ; https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/natural-gas/061019-propane-likely-to-shift-to-rail-if-michigan-forces-enbridge-to-shut-line-5 Early this week on WJR there was a good interview , the state transportation people pre estimates are 2000 tanker trucks per day or 500 rail cars per day 4-1 average. IF ?? the MI Gov. + A.G. pull the plug on line 5 . Rumors are floating that the state has offers from multi investors to purchase the state owned Gaylord n- s trackage that ends at the old Wickes lumber warehouse plus the rail banked line to Mac City . Rails were pulled years ago when it was owned outright by the Pinkerton family AKA as the long gone Detroit and Mackinaw Railroad , now Lake state Railroad. Good read...interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 On 6/10/2019 at 2:41 PM, Seatofmtpants said: Well thats tough. Its a low bid system ran by and inspected by the government.... so they will only let us do whats specified..... For example: we designed and placed 5 different materials on the same stretch of road (adjoining sections).... now why would that be??? Different engineers.... but why different mixes? Same traffic, same weather, same subgrade just different SHA designer. If industry was able to design and build projects (with a guarentee) then innovation would thrive.... doing what the book says isn't always the best. Buttttt..... muh roads...... Typed on my phone so ignore the grammer Many times that's done to test different bituminous mixes and or concrete formulas such as more or less admixtures like A.E., bag % per Cu. yard, quantities of #1 and 2 stone, and sand amount percentages all in the same stretch of road..known as Test Plats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted June 12, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 12, 2019 39 minutes ago, XCR1250 said: Many times that's done to test different bituminous mixes and or concrete formulas such as more or less admixtures like A.E., bag % per Cu. yard, quantities of #1 and 2 stone, and sand amount percentages all in the same stretch of road..known as Test Plats... Few roads round here have been done like that. Now if they stopped painting the lines with paint that eats asphalt we could have good roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01mxz800 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 On 6/10/2019 at 1:09 PM, f7ben said: Most of the process change has been focused on substrate prep from what I've seen correct. a road is only as good as the sub-roadbed, asphalt and poylimer enhanced asphalts are the proven industry standard all these mixes listed in the article are no more than wish full, waste full spending, we have tried adding recycled tires to our mixes with unsatisfactory results, we are currently using 40% rap (recycled asphalt product) reducing virgin liquid asphalt used with great results, we have some roads out there with no repairs needed for 20 years, google our parent company COLAS or my company Barrett Paving Matertials/Midland Asphalt Materials Inc and look at the different pavement preservation methods 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s pump Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, 01mxz800 said: correct. a road is only as good as the sub-roadbed, asphalt and poylimer enhanced asphalts are the proven industry standard all these mixes listed in the article are no more than wish full, waste full spending, we have tried adding recycled tires to our mixes with unsatisfactory results, we are currently using 40% rap (recycled asphalt product) reducing virgin liquid asphalt used with great results, we have some roads out there with no repairs needed for 20 years, google our parent company COLAS or my company Barrett Paving Matertials/Midland Asphalt Materials Inc and look at the different pavement preservation methods Could you bring over enough material to coat my 2100 foot driveway. It's coming uncunted and I need to do something.......ok thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 57 minutes ago, s pump said: Could you bring over enough material to coat my 2100 foot driveway. It's coming uncunted and I need to do something.......ok thanks! pocket change for a baller like you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertising Member Seatofmypants Posted June 13, 2019 Advertising Member Share Posted June 13, 2019 12 hours ago, XCR1250 said: Many times that's done to test different bituminous mixes and or concrete formulas such as more or less admixtures like A.E., bag % per Cu. yard, quantities of #1 and 2 stone, and sand amount percentages all in the same stretch of road..known as Test Plats... Meh, we don't have admixtures. My comments were about HMA not concrete. While these mixes did have different aggregate, asphalt, and ESAL levels..... it is doubtful they were performing any type of test strips. Most of these were in consecutive calendar years. Mixes placed were 12.5mm HPV 76-22 Level 4, 12.5mm GAP Level 5, 12.5mm 76-22 Level 4, 9.5mm Level 4 HPV 76-22, and 12.5mm Level 4 64-22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertising Member Seatofmypants Posted June 13, 2019 Advertising Member Share Posted June 13, 2019 11 hours ago, 01mxz800 said: correct. a road is only as good as the sub-roadbed, asphalt and poylimer enhanced asphalts are the proven industry standard all these mixes listed in the article are no more than wish full, waste full spending, we have tried adding recycled tires to our mixes with unsatisfactory results, we are currently using 40% rap (recycled asphalt product) reducing virgin liquid asphalt used with great results, we have some roads out there with no repairs needed for 20 years, google our parent company COLAS or my company Barrett Paving Matertials/Midland Asphalt Materials Inc and look at the different pavement preservation methods Hey I didn't know you were an asphalt guy....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 First thing they need to do is stop with all the fuckin salt. It's polluting our environment, destroying the roads, and really does fuck all most of the time. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Seatofmtpants said: Meh, we don't have admixtures. My comments were about HMA not concrete. While these mixes did have different aggregate, asphalt, and ESAL levels..... it is doubtful they were performing any type of test strips. Most of these were in consecutive calendar years. Mixes placed were 12.5mm HPV 76-22 Level 4, 12.5mm GAP Level 5, 12.5mm 76-22 Level 4, 9.5mm Level 4 HPV 76-22, and 12.5mm Level 4 64-22. Yes, I realized what you meant... I worked in all types of Road/Highway/Freeway & Railroad Construction including Materials design to determine Batch mixes for both Bituminous & Concrete material strengths and durability which included Nuclear Density testing, and in our Materials and Soils Laboratories for Soils analysis including Atterberg Limits ASTM D4943 to determine shrinkage limit, plastic limit, and liquid limit, solid, semi-solid, plastic, and liquid contents of soils for roadway Sub-grade and Bridge Abutment and Column depths and placements. (Retired now.) Edited June 13, 2019 by XCR1250 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 We had many test area locations (in Wisconsin) some were several miles long, both Bituminous and some Concrete areas which included Open-Graded Aggregate Sub-Grades used with concrete surfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s pump Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 13 hours ago, Angry ginger said: pocket change for a baller like you The fuck it is. I threw up in my mouth when I got an estimate to repave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01mxz800 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 12 hours ago, Seatofmtpants said: Hey I didn't know you were an asphalt guy....... hauling hot base for 15 years to HMA Barrett HMA plants in NY parent co. is COLAS from France Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Michigan Republicans. Pass their counter bill to use the money raised for roads on the roads. Wtf well played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted June 14, 2019 Author Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 14, 2019 46 minutes ago, Cold War said: Michigan Republicans. Pass their counter bill to use the money raised for roads on the roads. Wtf well played. Since we are sort of on the topic I just received my tag renewals in the mail and I’m still trying to figure out why my 2000 Silverado is the most expensive of the 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.