Gm still on govt tit

[BOHICA]

$56k+ Paid by canadian govt per employee to stay in canada.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/09/gm-stands-gain-government-payout-unifor-contract-deal/

Edited September 27, 2016 by BOHICA

[Anler]

We dont care about Canada bullshit...

[ArcticCrusher]

That is the first I heard about it.  So much for Unifor's hard negotiating.  Fucking bullshit.

[Ebsell]

44 minutes ago, Anler said:

We dont care about Canada bullshit...

Feelings mutual 

[BOHICA]

one thing I didn't realize was that canada gave so much money to GM a few years back.  7.23 billion....  Couple that with the 11 or 12 billion GM got to walk away with from the US taxpayer.  They got a lot of coin a few years ago and come calling again for more govt handouts.  It kind of goes along he lines of don't feed the bears cause you know they keep coming back for more.

Edited September 27, 2016 by BOHICA

[ArcticCrusher]

25 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

one thing I didn't realize was that canada gave so much money to GM a few years back.  7.23 billion....  Couple that with the 11 or 12 billion GM got to walk away with from the US taxpayer.  They got a lot of coin a few years ago and come calling again for more govt handouts.  It kind of goes along he lines of don't feed the bears cause you know they keep coming back for more.

The last time was well known.  This one has been hush hush and makes the union look better than they truly were.  If not for the auto supplier the last go around I would have been fine to see them sink.  This time it's just nonsense.

[BOHICA]

I figured this topic would get a few more hits....  Kind of quiet and figured sludgey would have weighed in by now

 

TTT

[Momorider]

23 hours ago, BOHICA said:

one thing I didn't realize was that canada gave so much money to GM a few years back.  7.23 billion....  Couple that with the 11 or 12 billion GM got to walk away with from the US taxpayer.  They got a lot of coin a few years ago and come calling again for more govt handouts.  It kind of goes along he lines of don't feed the bears cause you know they keep coming back for more.

They made money on that buy when the shares went back on market  

[BOHICA]

3 minutes ago, Momorider said:

They made money on that buy when the shares went back on market  

Canada lost 3.5 billion of the original 7 billion they gave gm

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/7024464

 

now gm needs more gov money to stay there.

[Momorider]

1 minute ago, BOHICA said:

Canada lost 3.5 billion of the original 7 billion they gave gm

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/7024464

 

now gm needs more gov money to stay there.

It must have been Ontario  I swore I just heard that they made money 

[Ebsell]

2 hours ago, Momorider said:

It must have been Ontario  I swore I just heard that they made money 

[ArcticCrusher]

2 hours ago, Momorider said:

It must have been Ontario  I swore I just heard that they made money 

Would likely be a first,.

[Momorider]

41 minutes ago, Ebsell said:

Yes you do lie Lobster Fucker, a lot it would seem  

[Momorider]

20 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Would likely be a first,.

First time for everything  

[Ebsell]

7 hours ago, Momorider said:

Yes you do lie Lobster Fucker, a lot it would seem  

I'm not the one with a thread comparing them to Hillary 

[1trailmaker]

On 2016-09-27 at 3:00 PM, ArcticCrusher said:

That is the first I heard about it.  So much for Unifor's hard negotiating.  Fucking bullshit.

The article by the globe is very misleading, GM new investments in Canada is not new and was a big deal done before summer started.  You ignore all Trudeau and Wynne doings as they announced this on the news several times,  so no surprise this is the first you heard of it.  the word UNION brought your attention to a peak.

This money is going to be used for expansion being the new software workplace in Markham to St. Catherine's plant and is not paying employees 56k each

 

By the way Unifor didn't make any union friends with this deal - GM workers (new) no longer have define pension and now have contribution pensions.  But in giving that up GM will hire the 700 temp employees as full time positions.

You should be happy with this because we all know you are against any worker getting ahead.

[02sled]

8 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

The article by the globe is very misleading, GM new investments in Canada is not new and was a big deal done before summer started.  You ignore all Trudeau and Wynne doings as they announced this on the news several times,  so no surprise this is the first you heard of it.  the word UNION brought your attention to a peak.

This money is going to be used for expansion being the new software workplace in Markham to St. Catherine's plant and is not paying employees 56k each

 

By the way Unifor didn't make any union friends with this deal - GM workers (new) no longer have define pension and now have contribution pensions.  But in giving that up GM will hire the 700 temp employees as full time positions.

You should be happy with this because we all know you are against any worker getting ahead.

As is so very typical Fail.... fails to understand anything financial. Nobody said that they were paying employees $56K each.  That number is simply representative of what the government spent to pacify GM on a per head count basis. . Pretty steep price to pay for job security for a private business. How about the Fiberals shell out the same kind of money to other businesses in trouble in order to keep them afloat. I'm sure all those other people in other organizations that have lost their jobs would have liked to see the infusion of cash into their employer to keep them their jobs. Especially considering part of the money to GM came from their tax $'s

As for the pensions... welcome to the real world. With a smaller work force over all a DB pension is unsustainable. Apart from that most people with any financial sense would prefer a DC pension plan where when they leave they get a lump sum of cash to invest on their own and will likely be able to do better financially in the long run. As well if they die young the DC pension money doesn't just disappear. It is still their for their heirs.  

[ArcticCrusher]

12 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

The article by the globe is very misleading, GM new investments in Canada is not new and was a big deal done before summer started.  You ignore all Trudeau and Wynne doings as they announced this on the news several times,  so no surprise this is the first you heard of it.  the word UNION brought your attention to a peak.

This money is going to be used for expansion being the new software workplace in Markham to St. Catherine's plant and is not paying employees 56k each

 

By the way Unifor didn't make any union friends with this deal - GM workers (new) no longer have define pension and now have contribution pensions.  But in giving that up GM will hire the 700 temp employees as full time positions.

You should be happy with this because we all know you are against any worker getting ahead.

 

Seriously, I can't stomach watching either one of those useless twits.  Its the pensions that sank GM the last bailout so I understand why GM stood their ground this time around.  I have said this before, there should not be a one size fits all pension strategy, younger guys can take much more risk and should be exposed to higher earning potential investments, and should not be linked or held back by "Joe Blow" who can't stomach a 1% decline and wants all his money in fucking useless bonds.

 

I though it was a fair deal until I read our government bailed them out again.

[1trailmaker]

9 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

 

Seriously, I can't stomach watching either one of those useless twits.  Its the pensions that sank GM the last bailout so I understand why GM stood their ground this time around.  I have said this before, there should not be a one size fits all pension strategy, younger guys can take much more risk and should be exposed to higher earning potential investments, and should not be linked or held back by "Joe Blow" who can't stomach a 1% decline and wants all his money in fucking useless bonds.

 

I though it was a fair deal until I read our government bailed them out again.

That was discussed months ago - GM is opening new business in Canada (Ontario)

[1trailmaker]

11 minutes ago, 02sled said:

As is so very typical Fail.... fails to understand anything financial. Nobody said that they were paying employees $56K each.  That number is simply representative of what the government spent to pacify GM on a per head count basis. . Pretty steep price to pay for job security for a private business. How about the Fiberals shell out the same kind of money to other businesses in trouble in order to keep them afloat. I'm sure all those other people in other organizations that have lost their jobs would have liked to see the infusion of cash into their employer to keep them their jobs. Especially considering part of the money to GM came from their tax $'s

As for the pensions... welcome to the real world. With a smaller work force over all a DB pension is unsustainable. Apart from that most people with any financial sense would prefer a DC pension plan where when they leave they get a lump sum of cash to invest on their own and will likely be able to do better financially in the long run. As well if they die young the DC pension money doesn't just disappear. It is still their for their heirs.  

look up commuted value buy-outs

 

I am going to bet you have no problem cashing your lifetime pension monthly

[ArcticCrusher]

1 minute ago, 1trailmaker said:

look up commuted value buy-outs

 

I am going to bet you have no problem cashing your lifetime pension monthly

Trail,

My wife has one of the best pensions in the bus, and hers does not even come close to mine.  Keep thinking old school.

[02sled]

35 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

look up commuted value buy-outs

 

I am going to bet you have no problem cashing your lifetime pension monthly

Poor Fail... I know all about commuted value and most DB pension plans under the regulations of the plan do not allow the commuted value payout unless you leave the company before retirement age. If you quit before 55d you get the EARNED value payout. If you leave at 55 or older you are considered retired and collect the pension $'s monthly. The reason being if some of the employees are able to opt out and collect the commuted value it diminishes the investment pool they rely upon to fund the monthly payments of the DB plan. If they collapse the DB plan and roll the commuted value into a DC plan for everyone that is a different story.

You would lose the bet Fail. I would have much rather received a commuted value from my DB pension plan and invested that money myself but being 55 at the time the regulations of the plan considered me as retired and I didn't have a choice. The only choices I had were

waiting until 65 to collect the maximum monthly value of the pension based on the years of service - age - salary formula

collecting the value of the monthly at a lesser amount for starting to collect it before 65

collecting a lesser value of the monthly pension where when I die my wife collects 60% of the value until she dies

If I die next month that monthly cheque drops 40% and if she dies next year all the money I put in, the earnings on investment just disappears

Hands down, no hesitation I would have much preferred to invest the commuted value especially with the low interest rates used to calculate the commuted value. The lower the prime rate the more money they would have had to give me as a lump sum. Our own RSP investments have performed MUCH better and earned much more than the ROI I could ever see on the DB plan

Ask the IBM employees how happy they are. About 8 or 9 years ago they collapsed the DB plan and rolled the commuted value into a DC plan. At the time the interest rates were extremely low and the commuted values were significantly large. Everyone I have talked to is more than happy with the DC plan and how well their investments are growing.

 

Edited September 29, 2016 by 02sled

[1trailmaker]

13 minutes ago, 02sled said:

Poor Fail... I know all about commuted value and most DB pension plans under the regulations of the plan do not allow the commuted value payout unless you leave the company before retirement age. If you quit before 55d you get the EARNED value payout. If you leave at 55 or older you are considered retired and collect the pension $'s monthly. The reason being if some of the employees are able to opt out and collect the commuted value it diminishes the investment pool they rely upon to fund the monthly payments of the DB plan. If they collapse the DB plan and roll the commuted value into a DC plan for everyone that is a different story.

You would lose the bet Fail. I would have much rather received a commuted value from my DB pension plan and invested that money myself but being 55 at the time the regulations of the plan considered me as retired and I didn't have a choice. The only choices I had were

waiting until 65 to collect the maximum monthly value of the pension based on the years of service - age - salary formula

collecting the value of the monthly at a lesser amount for starting to collect it before 65

collecting a lesser value of the monthly pension where when I die my wife collects 60% of the value until she dies

If I die next month that monthly cheque drops 40% and if she dies next year all the money I put in, the earnings on investment just disappears

Hands down, no hesitation I would have much preferred to invest the commuted value especially with the low interest rates used to calculate the commuted value. The lower the prime rate the more money they would have had to give me as a lump sum. Our own RSP investments have performed MUCH better and earned much more than the ROI I could ever see on the DB plan

Ask the IBM employees how happy they are. About 8 or 9 years ago they collapsed the DB plan and rolled the commuted value into a DC plan. At the time the interest rates were extremely low and the commuted values were significantly large. Everyone I have talked to is more than happy with the DC plan and how well their investments are growing.

 

I am going to bet you already have taken out more than you gave and still have many more years to collect, matter of fact I bet you didn't contribute anything and your pension was a part of your wages.  Many places do this type of pension like UPS...

keep talking out of both sides of your mouth

[1trailmaker]

41 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Trail,

My wife has one of the best pensions in the bus, and hers does not even come close to mine.  Keep thinking old school.

oh really,  being a business owner like you claim you wouldn't have a pension.  I think my suspicions were correct.

[02sled]

13 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

I am going to bet you already have taken out more than you gave and still have many more years to collect, matter of fact I bet you didn't contribute anything and your pension was a part of your wages.  Many places do this type of pension like UPS...

keep talking out of both sides of your mouth

Still wrong again Fail... oh so very wrong. Maybe in the elite privileged world of government that is nothing close to the rest of the world that would be the case. Out of my annual salary the company deducted 7% of that salary as MY contribution to the DB pension plan. The company as an employment benefit contributed 4% of my salary to that plan. I would have much rather had the option of putting that 11% of salary into my own investment plan and watching it grow. Don't forget that those company contributions are part of the employee compensation bottom line. Not any different really than the $'s I earned except I can't access it as I choose.

Now in your case you will get a much higher % of income and much better pension than those in the real world could ever dream of and of course you never have to be concerned about your pension plan being underfunded since if it is the government is on the hook for the shortfall and all they need to do is raise taxes and go into debt.

If a private business pension plan is underfunded and the business goes out of business that monthly payment is in jeopardy and could be significantly reduced. Just look at the people who worked for Nortel and the REDUCED pensions they receive.

Edited September 29, 2016 by 02sled