motonoggin Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 How convict labour increased inequality Forcing prisoners to work lowered wages and increased unemployment https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21740468-forcing-prisoners-work-lowered-wages-and-increased-unemployment-how-convict-labour THE 13th Amendment to the constitution has prohibited slavery and indentured servitude in America since 1865. The one exception is as “punishment for crime”. As a result, prisons use their inmates as forced labour to balance the books, particularly since private firms were allowed to hire them again in 1979. Last year around a third of America’s prison population of 2.3m worked. Most of this labour is done for much less than the federal minimum wage of $7.25. According to the Prison Policy Imitative, an advocacy group, some prisoners working in industry earn as little as five cents an hour. Regular prison chores are unpaid in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Texas. Many worry about the impact on local labour markets of undercutting free wage rates. But little research has been done to quantify this. A paper presented on April 6th at the Economic History Society’s annual conference at Keele University seeks to do exactly this. Michael Poyker of UCLA Anderson has collected data from American prisons and the labour markets in their surrounding counties between 1850 and 1950. Crunching the data, convict labour hit free workers with a double whammy. The introduction of convict labour in a county in 1870-1886 accounted for 16% slower growth in manufacturing wages in 1880-1900, 20% lower labour-force participation, and a smaller employment share in factories than there would otherwise have been. This is not only because free workers were directly replaced by prisoners. The remaining firms using local workers then replaced them with machinery to compete with other firms using convicts. Mr Poyker reckons that the use of prison labour resulted in 6% of the growth in patenting new technologies in industries that were affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I'd like to see them out picking road ditches and patching potholes myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Equal rights and equal pay for felons I say!!!!! No. I don’t really say that. Isn't a work program a privilege and earned with good behavior in most systems now? Same with education opportunities And trade skills I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Couple big picture guys, right here^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Couple big picture guys, right here^^^ Ditto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted May 2, 2018 Gold Member Share Posted May 2, 2018 It’s kind of cool that they are paying for their incarceration somehow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Government has the power to write laws, put you in prison for breaking them, and then use you as slave labor because you've been 'duly convicted under the law'. This creates yet another way to suppress wages and reinforce inequality. What could go wrong??? I mean it's not like we have the highest incarceration rate in the industrialized world or anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 What should we do? Give them a 72" LCD/LED TV, a PS4 and a case of Pepsi to pass their time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, racinfarmer said: What should we do? Give them a 72" LCD/LED TV, a PS4 and a case of Pepsi to pass their time? Gee, idk, maybe abolish the prison system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Gee, idk, maybe abolish the prison system? I can get down on that. No prison systems mean no law enforcement officers. No LEO’s mean no laws. Let’s get all old west!!!! Is that what you are thinking also? Cuz, you know what that means for the black communities....going tribal third world overnight!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, Zambroski said: I can get down on that. No prison systems mean no law enforcement officers. No LEO’s mean no laws. Let’s get all old west!!!! Is that what you are thinking also? Cuz, you know what that means for the black communities....going tribal third world overnight!!! Yeah, most white people will probably die in the revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Yeah, most white people will probably die in the revolution. lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Yeah, most white people will probably die in the revolution. Because organized angry white people have shown themselves to be passive and harmless in the past? Stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Union propaganda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Zambroski said: Because organized angry white people have shown themselves to be passive and harmless in the past? Stop it. Yeah but they're soft now. 1 minute ago, racer254 said: Union propaganda Lmao. From the economist... Edited May 2, 2018 by motonoggin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, motonoggin said: Yeah but they're soft now. Lmao. Exactly and you fall for it. OH NO, prisoners working....it may take jobs away from someone else. What a load of bull shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, racer254 said: Exactly and you fall for it. OH NO, prisoners working....it may take jobs away from someone else. What a load of bull shit. Studies show that slave labor suppresses wages. The math doesn't lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, motonoggin said: Studies show that slave labor suppresses wages. The math doesn't lie. Studies LOL from 1850? Come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, racer254 said: Studies LOL from 1850? Come on. Your denial of the facts has no bearing on their veracity Edited May 2, 2018 by motonoggin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted May 2, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted May 2, 2018 Having cheap labor from incarceration compete against private sector is a valid concern. While I support the idea of some self sufficiency in the prison system it is a fine line on what should be acceptable. I mentioned a while back in another post about a local prison that wanted to review our powder coating system as they wanted to put one in and heard ours would be a good one to model theirs after. This system would in the future compete against our system. We told them ever so nicely to go fuck themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, Highmark said: Having cheap labor from incarceration compete against private sector is a valid concern. While I support the idea of some self sufficiency in the prison system it is a fine line on what should be acceptable. I mentioned a while back in another post about a local prison that wanted to review our powder coating system as they wanted to put one in and heard ours would be a good one to model theirs after. This system would in the future compete against our system. We told them ever so nicely to go fuck themselves. Prisons are modern day plantations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted May 2, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, motonoggin said: Prisons are modern day plantations. The same local incarceration center has their own farms and raises some of their own food, especially beef. I've talked to plenty of local cattleman who thinks its complete bullshit. To me its not about making them work for peanuts, its about unfair competition with the private sector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, Highmark said: The same local incarceration center has their own farms and raises some of their own food, especially beef. I've talked to plenty of local cattleman who thinks its complete bullshit. To me its not about making them work for peanuts, its about unfair competition with the private sector. Well yeah, labor is and always has been a liability to profitability. That's why capitalism will eventually universally require free labor in order to function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Hence why we have the highest incarceration rate in the developed world and also a very large private industry built around housing and bossing out slaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted May 2, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Well yeah, labor is and always has been a liability to profitability. That's why capitalism will eventually universally require free labor in order to function. Every expense is a liability to profitability. Will capitalism require the rest of COGS besides labor to be free as well in order to function? In many industries labor runs 10% or less of sales price. If I had to choose something be free labor would be one of the last ones. Edited May 2, 2018 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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