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Say I have 20 years left on a mortgage that still has 150,000 on it at 5%

I have the 150g to pay it off.  Do I pay off the house or invest the money somewhere else?  Pros and Cons for anyone who cares to comment.

 

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14 minutes ago, racer254 said:

Say I have 20 years left on a mortgage that still has 150,000 on it at 5%

I have the 150g to pay it off.  Do I pay off the house or invest the money somewhere else?  Pros and Cons for anyone who cares to comment.

 

First and foremost I'm not an investment guru.  

Depends on many factors.  Should be some decent calculators online about this but their accuracy depends on what actually happens in the future like deductability of the interest, tax rates and what not.  

 On the surface I'd say you are better off keeping the mortgage and investing but it has to be looked at closely.  For sure if investing I'd be maxing out a Roth with it.  

https://calcxml.com/calculators/pay-off-debt-or-invest

 

Edited by Highmark
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1 minute ago, Highmark said:

Depends on many factors.  Should be some decent calculators online about this but their accuracy depends on what actually happens in the future like deductability of the interest, tax rates and what not.  

 On the surface I'd say you are better off keeping the mortgage and investing but it has to be looked at closely.  For sure if investing I'd be maxing out a Roth with it.  

 

I asked this to a few investment people and not many can really give me a straight answer.  They say the same thing as you do.  150k over 20 years is another 82k in interest at 5%

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3 minutes ago, racer254 said:

I asked this to a few investment people and not many can really give me a straight answer.  They say the same thing as you do.  150k over 20 years is another 82k in interest at 5%

$ 549,143

Is investment income over 20 yrs . $150,000 initial deposit , $ 0 contributions , based on 8 % annual return.

https://www.daveramsey.com/smartvestor/investment-calculator

 

Edited by steve from amherst
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7 minutes ago, racer254 said:

I asked this to a few investment people and not many can really give me a straight answer.  They say the same thing as you do.  150k over 20 years is another 82k in interest at 5%

$150K at 8% ends up being around $550K in 20 years.   If all gains are taxed you would have taxes on $400K in gains so figure around 20% LTCG or $80k  tax rates stay relatively the same.   Leaves $320K left over.  Good mutual fund or index fund should get you 8% return.  

Use some of the online calculators.   Do you know your marginal or effective tax rates?

All these calculations go out the window if you start dipping heavily into that pond.  

Edited by Highmark
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31 minutes ago, racer254 said:

Say I have 20 years left on a mortgage that still has 150,000 on it at 5%

I have the 150g to pay it off.  Do I pay off the house or invest the money somewhere else?  Pros and Cons for anyone who cares to comment.

 

given current market valuations,  loss for many of the benefits of the interest being tax deductible it would really take some analysis to decide including accounting for your risk tolerance and any tax ramifications of rolling out of current investments to fund the payoff.  Certainly historical average return of the market would be greater than the 5% interest cost but there is a piece of mind of being debt free.  

 

 

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6 minutes ago, steve from amherst said:

$ 549,143

Is investment income over 20 yrs . $150,000 initial deposit , $ 0 contributions , based on 8 % annual return.

https://www.daveramsey.com/smartvestor/investment-calculator

 

I like that site.  150k at 5% gets me to 248k  I always thought it would be better to just pay of the house vs ~233k that I would pay for the mortgage in 20 years.

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Just now, Angry ginger said:

given current market valuations,  loss for many of the benefits of the interest being tax deductible it would really take some analysis to decide including accounting for your risk tolerance and any tax ramifications of rolling out of current investments to fund the payoff.  Certainly historical average return of the market would be greater than the 5% interest cost but there is a piece of mind of being debt free.  

 

 

The interest deduction threshold change is pretty high but needs to be taken into consideration. 

All good points though.  

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1 minute ago, racer254 said:

I like that site.  150k at 5% gets me to 248k  I always thought it would be better to just pay of the house vs ~233k that I would pay for the mortgage in 20 years.

How much a month can you (and would you) put away/invest if you paid it off?

Edited by Highmark
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1 minute ago, Angry ginger said:

given current market valuations,  loss for many of the benefits of the interest being tax deductible it would really take some analysis to decide including accounting for your risk tolerance and any tax ramifications of rolling out of current investments to fund the payoff.  Certainly historical average return of the market would be greater than the 5% interest cost but there is a piece of mind of being debt free.  

 

 

Yep, and it's a guaranteed 83k on the mortgage payoff

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Just now, Highmark said:

How much a month can you (and would you) put away if you paid it off?

That's another thing to keep in mind. Will you save/ invest the monthly savings if paid off. Or just live a higher lifestyle. Do you have to discipline to do so?

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9 minutes ago, Highmark said:

$150K at 8% ends up being around $550K in 20 years.   If all gains are taxed you would have taxes on $400K in gains.

Use some of the online calculators.   Do you know your marginal or effective tax rates?

hard to accurately calculate the taxes,  between different rates on dividends,  short and long term gains and evolving tax rates you just need to take a WAG at those numbers.  

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Just now, steve from amherst said:

That's another thing to keep in mind. Will you save/ invest the monthly savings if paid off. Or just live a higher lifestyle. Do you have to discipline to do so?

Yeah, I do have the discipline.

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3 minutes ago, Highmark said:

The interest deduction threshold change is pretty high but needs to be taken into consideration. 

All good points though.  

depends on the state you live in.  With no income tax here and a sub 3% mortgage rate even with a 9k property tax bill I will be taking the new standard deduction.  I've played this scenario he is asking for that reason and honestly there is no cut and dry answer to it.  Using Ramsey's calculator is kind of funny given he would be a guy to tell you to get it paid off ASAP

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, DAVE said:

You could be dead in 20 yrs...pay it off.

what does that have to do with anything.  hell if i knew when i was going to die i would leverage myself to the hilt and blow it on hookers and blow because who really gives a fuck when your not going to have to pay it back.  

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1 minute ago, Angry ginger said:

depends on the state you live in.  With no income tax here and a sub 3% mortgage rate even with a 9k property tax bill I will be taking the new standard deduction.  I've played this scenario he is asking for that reason and honestly there is no cut and dry answer to it.  Using Ramsey's calculator is kind of funny given he would be a guy to tell you to get it paid off ASAP

 

 

 

 

I was wondering about that.

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Just now, Angry ginger said:

what does that have to do with anything.  hell if i knew when i was going to die i would leverage myself to the hilt and blow it on hookers and blow because who really gives a fuck when your not going to have to pay it back.  

I knew you would say that. :lol:

Still not owing is always better imo.

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