NaturallyAspirated Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 minute ago, XCR1250 said: When cars were forced to pass emissions compression ratios were dropped and mileage went way down, so it's true they produced less pollution but used more fuel so where was the benefit? My 1968 Pontiac Executive 400 cu.in. got 23 MPG and was a huge boat. Again that's obvious, my point was some folks think using race gas or premium in their street cars or trucks will make it faster/quicker and that is simply not a fact. Again I agree, however the general statement that race gas (or high octane) doesn't produce more power is also a misleading one. The fuel should match the engine. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Skidooski Posted April 3, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 minute ago, XCR1250 said: When cars were forced to pass emissions compression ratios were dropped and mileage went way down, so it's true they produced less pollution but used more fuel so where was the benefit? My 1968 Pontiac Executive 400 cu.in. got 23 MPG and was a huge boat. Again that's obvious, my point was some folks think using race gas or premium in their street cars or trucks will make it faster/quicker and that is simply not a fact. Such a waste of money! I just found out on the dyno that I was using too much octane with one of my motor's. Gained HP and saved me about $25 per pail of fule too using lower octane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Legend said: Are we talking fuel or engines? Because I thought we were talking fuel. But if you want to talk engines, then just turbo the fucking thing. We are talking matching a fuel to an engine. A blanket statement that higher octane doesn't produce more power, again, isn't necessarily correct. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, XCR1250 said: After compression ratios went down I had bought a 1978 Riviera with a 403 cu.in. engine, it got 11-12MPG, 1/2 of what the much higher C.R.Pontiac got. Making engines higer in compression is a great efficiency improvement. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Again I agree, however the general statement that race gas (or high octane) doesn't produce more power is also a misleading one. The fuel should match the engine. Neal I have to use 116 Sunoco Maximal in 1 sled I have as the C.R. is so high that it has a cranking compression of 225 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Just now, NaturallyAspirated said: Making engines higer in compression is a great efficiency improvement. Neal Yup, but emissions won't be met, so not feasible yet until perhaps technology changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 minute ago, NaturallyAspirated said: We are talking matching a fuel to an engine. A blanket statement that higher octane doesn't produce more power, again, isn't necessarily correct. Neal The fuel does not make more power. The race fuel is to keep the engine from destroying itself. Yes, an engine with 14.1 compression will make more hp than an engine with 5.1 compression. But the 14.1 engine will need a fuel better than the 5.1 engine to survive for very long. Better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Just now, XCR1250 said: I have to use 116 Sunoco Maximal in 1 sled I have as the C.R. is so high that it has a cranking compression of 225 lbs. So HP output would be more, or less if you used 87 from the pump? You of all people here should have known better to make the claim race fuel (octane) doesn't matter. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Just now, Legend said: The fuel does not make more power. The race fuel is to keep the engine from destroying itself. Yes, an engine with 14.1 compression will make more hp than an engine with 5.1 compression. But the 14.1 engine will need a fuel better than the 5.1 engine to survive for very long. Better? Yes, it does. Again making a blanket statement like that isn't correct. While the energy content between an 87 and a 110 octane fuel may be close, the efficiency and method of extraction of that energy matters. Match the fuel to the motor. A higher compression engine has a better advantage from a physics standpoint. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 HP would be less.. DUE TO DETONATION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said: So HP output would be more, or less if you used 87 from the pump? You of all people here should have known better to make the claim race fuel (octane) doesn't matter. Neal Again, The point was using higher octanes will not make any engine produce more HP, but I'll add, to prevent pre-ignition in engines with hi HP a higher octane is needed to prevent engine problems or failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Yes, it does. Again making a blanket statement like that isn't correct. While the energy content between an 87 and a 110 octane fuel may be close, the efficiency and method of extraction of that energy matters. Match the fuel to the motor. A higher compression engine has a better advantage from a physics standpoint. Neal Improvements are possible, not because of the octane rating, but because the chemical composition of the fuel may be capable of producing more power and less chance of pre-ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 pre ignition and detonation are 2 different things that can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Take a cup of 87 and a cup of c16 and light both on fire. The 87 just produced more btu of energy That is all Edited April 3, 2018 by f7ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, XCR1250 said: Improvements are possible, not because of the octane rating, but because the chemical composition of the fuel may be capable of producing more power and less chance of pre-ignition. Less chance of preignition is what octane rating shows.... How much you compress a fuel matters in its power output. Thus the blanket statement that octane rating doesn't matter is incorrect. Again there is a reason you don't run 87 in the aforementioned race sled, because it would be detrimental, and not provide the same power. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiSledder Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said: So HP output would be more, or less if you used 87 from the pump? You of all people here should have known better to make the claim race fuel (octane) doesn't matter. Neal Stupid argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 3, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 3, 2018 Very cool engine from Mazda that combines the characteristics of diesel and gas engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 3, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Comes down to btu capacity and stability. Diesel has higher BTU's than gasoline and is relatively stable under compression. That is why the highest mileage cars/trucks are still diesels. Edited April 3, 2018 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, ATOMIC PUNK said: pre ignition and detonation are 2 different things that can happen. Yes, higher octane will resist detonation, an engine only needs enough octane to resist deto, any more is a waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 29 minutes ago, XCR1250 said: After compression ratios went down I had bought a 1978 Riviera with a 403 cu.in. engine, it got 11-12MPG, 1/2 of what the much higher C.R.Pontiac got. Horrible motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCR1250 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Just now, Cold War said: Horrible motors. Oldsmobile engine,-I never had any problems at all with it, I loved the car, lots of bells & whistles for it's year but the mileage was terrible so I sold it for a 1979 Nova 6 banger..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) My NOVA engine 10.25:1. STATIC. Im sure its less than that dynamically because of the cam. I run 93 sunoco Edited April 3, 2018 by ATOMIC PUNK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 93 octane today is close to 100 by the old method Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, XCR1250 said: Yes, higher octane will resist detonation, an engine only needs enough octane to resist deto, any more is a waste of money. Detonation would be classified under preignition. I can agree with that, but again using a fuel with a low octane in an engine designed for higher octane will produce less power. Octane rating does matter. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, MiSledder said: Stupid argument Go jerk off your cat. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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