Dave Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokemerc Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 http://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/former-blue-jay-roy-halladays-plane-involved-in-fatal-crash-police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Very sad news! What a great pitcher and person he was. A shoo-in for the HOF as well. Sad leaving his wife and 2 teenage children behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade X Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Why a guy with that kinda of coin is flyin a shitty aircraft like that is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rocket Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, Renegade X said: Why a guy with that kinda of coin is flyin a shitty aircraft like that is beyond me. Why is it shitty? I’m not a plane guy. I see it had power by BRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade X Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, The Rocket said: Why is it shitty? I’m not a plane guy. I see it had power by BRP. They are a tiny little pusher plane that can land in water. If you read up about them, a bunch of people have been killed in them (test pilot, the designer of the plane). Personally, I would never get in a pusher at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzleboy Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) It's actually a cool little machine. Quite car-like for the occupants. iconaircraft.com Also, the Rotax 912 is an aerospace engine; it has more in common with a Continental or Lycoming, than it does a sled engine. Boxer layout, dual ignition, etc. Renegade - An Avanti is a pusher, as are most all fans. The Test pilot and engineer were killed due to pilot error. It's looking like Halladay's death could be also. The TMZ vid shows the wreckage up close. Some were saying he was fucking around..... shouldn't be too long before some good data from the investigation emerges. Here's a grab I took from the vid. Never good to see landing gear on a wrecked amphib, but It's possible the damage to the hull/gear bay is severe enough that it simply exposed the retracted gear. Would have to see more of it. Extended landing gear and water landings don't mix well. Edited November 9, 2017 by Puzzleboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usedtoskidoo Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 cell phone videos show him doing what look likes aerobactics before hand and coming really close to the water. By looking at that video my guess he misjudged and couldn't pull up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usedtoskidoo Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzleboy Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 That thing's soggier than a Baja.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
04nightfire Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 22 minutes ago, Puzzleboy said: That thing's soggier than a Baja.... That's pushing it. Baja's are pretty soggy.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade X Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 11 hours ago, Puzzleboy said: It's actually a cool little machine. Quite car-like for the occupants. iconaircraft.com Also, the Rotax 912 is an aerospace engine; it has more in common with a Continental or Lycoming, than it does a sled engine. Boxer layout, dual ignition, etc. Renegade - An Avanti is a pusher, as are most all fans. The Test pilot and engineer were killed due to pilot error. It's looking like Halladay's death could be also. The TMZ vid shows the wreckage up close. Some were saying he was fucking around..... shouldn't be too long before some good data from the investigation emerges. Here's a grab I took from the vid. Never good to see landing gear on a wrecked amphib, but It's possible the damage to the hull/gear bay is severe enough that it simply exposed the retracted gear. Would have to see more of it. Extended landing gear and water landings don't mix well. Its still a POS. Not something I'd ever buy or fly in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poncho Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 My NTSB buddy is doing the tech side of the investigation, he is based on Vacaville where the aircraft is built. I've been there, usually stop there on the way to Reno. nice little plane, not my favorite. All the pusher airplanes have different handling qualities than a regular aircraft like a 180. There will be more accidents with the plane. The litigation might kill the aircraft early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poncho Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 19 hours ago, Puzzleboy said: It's actually a cool little machine. Quite car-like for the occupants. iconaircraft.com Also, the Rotax 912 is an aerospace engine; it has more in common with a Continental or Lycoming, than it does a sled engine. Boxer layout, dual ignition, etc. Renegade - An Avanti is a pusher, as are most all fans. The Test pilot and engineer were killed due to pilot error. It's looking like Halladay's death could be also. The TMZ vid shows the wreckage up close. Some were saying he was fucking around..... shouldn't be too long before some good data from the investigation emerges. Here's a grab I took from the vid. Never good to see landing gear on a wrecked amphib, but It's possible the damage to the hull/gear bay is severe enough that it simply exposed the retracted gear. Would have to see more of it. Extended landing gear and water landings don't mix well. Yep extended gear gets a ton of amphib guys....I'm thinking there is way to much damage on this one for that to be the cause. Generally water landings with the gear down is a lower impact and lower energy ending with very little hull damage.....because the pilot is in control and trying to actually land......this has some questionable damage...IE...broken (fuselage) back implies something bigger, or more energy.....perhaps stall spin, or a porpoised landing and wing dig..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzy Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Why did no one jump in and try and pull him out? It will be upsetting if we find out from the medical report that he died from drowning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poncho Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) Because they didn't want too....not everyone thinks that way, especially at an aircraft accident site. The wreckage is inverted so it would likely have been impossible anyway. Edited November 10, 2017 by Poncho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade X Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 15 hours ago, Poncho said: Yep extended gear gets a ton of amphib guys....I'm thinking there is way to much damage on this one for that to be the cause. Generally water landings with the gear down is a lower impact and lower energy ending with very little hull damage.....because the pilot is in control and trying to actually land......this has some questionable damage...IE...broken (fuselage) back implies something bigger, or more energy.....perhaps stall spin, or a porpoised landing and wing dig..... Did you not see the footage of the crash? He was hot doggin with minimal experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usedtoskidoo Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Renegade X said: Did you not see the footage of the crash? He was hot doggin with minimal experience. yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poncho Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Renegade X said: Did you not see the footage of the crash? He was hot doggin with minimal experience. I saw a video that has the aircraft doing a climbing left turn and then descending flying low over the water. I couldn't tell whether that is hot dogging or not. Also I don't know what experience he had. Edited November 10, 2017 by Poncho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade X Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Poncho said: I saw a video that has the aircraft doing a climbing left turn and then descending flying low over the water. I couldn't tell whether that is hot dogging or not. Also I don't know what experience he had. I read that he had about 26 hours flying time lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usedtoskidoo Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, Renegade X said: I read that he had about 26 hours flying time lol that's it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzleboy Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) All I saw was the TMZ video from the fishermen. Cannot tell from that if he was "hotdogging" or not. High rates of turn or rapid descents are not necessarily hotdogging, especially in a responsive aircraft. I did read somewhere that he didn''t have a lot of experience. Hot-dogging or not, it still remains to be seen if he was attempting a landing, was disoriented with regards to his altitude, or had a mechanical issue, or exceeded the aircraft's envelope somehow. We'll have to wait and see..... On 11/10/2017 at 10:54 AM, Renegade X said: Did you not see the footage of the crash? He was hot doggin with minimal experience. Edited November 11, 2017 by Puzzleboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostynuts Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Very strange behavior from a man that had so much self control and was so detail oriented. For him to fly his plane with such erratic behavior as seen by several witnesses over the space of several days has to make one wonder IF he was tired of living. How long does it take for the black boxes to be removed and investigated for mechanical failure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzleboy Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) We don't really know what his behaviour was though, that's the thing. Not yet, at least. And if you were going to be suicidal, I would think you would attain lots of attitude. He looked to be flying level at quite a low altitude, from what little we've seen. Typically planes of that size never carried Flight Data Recorders (FDRs), or Cockpit Voice Recorders (CVRs) in the past. But when I looked at Icon's specs the other day, I saw mention of FDRs in their PAs for the A5. (Interestingly, there was also a "Covenant Not to Sue Icon..... " in the same PA). That will certainly be incredibly useful information for the investigative team. They''ll hopefully be able to tell if several control inputs were commanded/uncommanded, and will be able to view any other parameters that Icon feeds into the unit via various sensors (power settings, altitude, flight control positions, gear config, etc.). - If his plane was so equipped. If he had recorders Frosty, they'd find/remove them quite quickly (especially in a crash in shallow water like that). The data can be extracted quickly also, if undamaged. Keep in mind folks..... even a medical incident cannot be ruled out yet. Edited November 11, 2017 by Puzzleboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostynuts Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Interesting. If it was a medical incident, I cann,t imagine he would of been flying like that for several days, as reported by many boaters, until he crashed. Seems like everything re this accident has gone quiet. I thought info from the data recorders might have been released by now. A strange accident, for sure. Hopefully they find the real cause, soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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