question for the trail work guys

[01mxz800]

What is the average ages of thee guy doing the trail work in your clubs? In our club the guys doing a majority of the trail work is 50 and up, we are trying to figure out ways to get younger blood taking the baton any suggestions?

[XCR1250]

Same here..Im 70.

[Angry ginger]

when i was involved it was a mix of a group of u in our 30's and a bunch of old timers.  

[01mxz800]

5 minutes ago, XCR1250 said:

Same here..Im 70.

I'm 55 and our oldest trail guy is 68, we are just worried that all the work we have put into  the system will go to shit when the older guys can't do it any more, young guys are not even too interested in grooming, we have a 145 miles of trails and 15 guys that sign, brush and groom I take care of 21 miles myself with the help of my riding partner

[XCR1250]

4 minutes ago, 01mxz800 said:

I'm 55 and our oldest trail guy is 68, we are just worried that all the work we have put into  the system will go to shit when the older guys can't do it any more, young guys are not even too interested in grooming, we have a 145 miles of trails and 15 guys that sign, brush and groom I take care of 21 miles myself with the help of my riding partner

We have over 600 miles.

[Highmark]

47 minutes ago, 01mxz800 said:

What is the average ages of thee guy doing the trail work in your clubs? In our club the guys doing a majority of the trail work is 50 and up, we are trying to figure out ways to get younger blood taking the baton any suggestions?

Same here.   There are only 3 of us that do the majority of the work and I don't put in half the time the other 2 do.   I'm the youngest at 47 the others are in their 50's and 60's.   We have less than 100 miles and connect to 4 other clubs.  

Edited November 29, 2017 by Highmark

[Anler]

41 minutes ago, 01mxz800 said:

I'm 55 and our oldest trail guy is 68, we are just worried that all the work we have put into  the system will go to shit when the older guys can't do it any more, young guys are not even too interested in grooming, we have a 145 miles of trails and 15 guys that sign, brush and groom I take care of 21 miles myself with the help of my riding partner

You are right. It is concerning to think about who is going to keep doing this when those guys cant anymore. 

[racer254]

Well, I am 44 and I do believe generally our trail guys are my age and older.  But there is the other side of the story about how you have to allow others to do the work and make the decisions even if they may have to learn from there own mistakes.  Maybe give a few of the younger guys a section of trail to do and leave it at that.  If it is shitty....oh well, but let them do the decision making.  For years, our club was run by one group that would not let others make any decisions and would not be allowed to use the equipment.   That's a recipe for resentment and memberships falling.

[MiSledder]

1 hour ago, 01mxz800 said:

What is the average ages of thee guy doing the trail work in your clubs? In our club the guys doing a majority of the trail work is 50 and up, we are trying to figure out ways to get younger blood taking the baton any suggestions?

Im a VP of a motorcycle club and one of my responsibilities is new membership, Let me know if you figure it out cause the young people today have no interest it working

first thing I figured out when I took over  is  young people dont see themselves as part of the club, they think theyre customers, they join and want full access to facility but we make them prove they will be good members and 99% quit, I sined up 9 people and all but 2 quit, Thats a good year for us

basically clubs are going to die IMO, atleast MX club tracks will, They mentality today is so much different, as soon as I tell them whats expected they cant get off the phone or away from me  fast enough

then you get the people who join, pay the fee and you never see them again

[MiSledder]

1 minute ago, racer254 said:

Well, I am 44 and I do believe generally our trail guys are my age and older.  But there is the other side of the story about how you have to allow others to do the work and make the decisions even if they may have to learn from there own mistakes.  Maybe give a few of the younger guys a section of trail to do and leave it at that.  If it is shitty....oh well, but let them do the decision making.  For years, our club was run by one group that would not let others make any decisions and would not be allowed to use the equipment.   That's a recipe for resentment and memberships falling.

We cant even get our lawn crew to mow unless they are told or asked, only young people we have that help the club do our FB and website and we have a tech guy for or computers, most our help comes from parents working for their kids, Friends and family are allowed to do half the members hours

[racer254]

Just now, MiSledder said:

We cant even get our lawn crew to mow unless they are told or asked, only young people we have that help the club do our FB and website and we have a tech guy for or computers, most our help comes from parents working for their kids, Friends and family are allowed to do half the members hours

Yeah, it's a fine line.  When I was in my 20's I had to beg to do the work for our club.  It's hard to find people like that, but the older guys need to remember not to push out the ones who do want to help.

[01mxz800]

5 minutes ago, racer254 said:

Well, I am 44 and I do believe generally our trail guys are my age and older.  But there is the other side of the story about how you have to allow others to do the work and make the decisions even if they may have to learn from there own mistakes.  Maybe give a few of the younger guys a section of trail to do and leave it at that.  If it is shitty....oh well, but let them do the decision making.  For years, our club was run by one group that would not let others make any decisions and would not be allowed to use the equipment.   That's a recipe for resentment and memberships falling.

we welcome the input from the younger crowd, and are more than willing to let them take the reins, we have over 400 members in the club and the same 25 attend the meetings. We did have a work party last sun and a few kids showed up to help but that was mostly due to the fact our area schools have a community service requirement and helping the club quailfies for credit

[racer254]

2 minutes ago, 01mxz800 said:

we welcome the input from the younger crowd, and are more than willing to let them take the reins, we have over 400 members in the club and the same 25 attend the meetings. We did have a work party last sun and a few kids showed up to help but that was mostly due to the fact our area schools have a community service requirement and helping the club quailfies for credit

Do "they" see it that way?

[Zambroski]

5 minutes ago, racer254 said:

Do "they" see it that way?

No, they do not.  I rotate my membership between three local clubs and no longer do any meetings.  I'm no "young buck" but have some good knowledge on how to recruit, retain and keep young members active.  Nobody really cares to listen.  Just a lot of old guys complaining about the young guys not doint their part IMO.  But when some young guys come to the meeting almost nobody goes out of their way to make them feel welcome.  ANd when they show up to work all they get a chance to do is shit/slave/go-fer work.  God forbid somwbody show them the groomer, or let them do youth classes, or anything that may be considered useful and fun.  It's an astonishing irony like I've never seen.

Bottom line, and this is what I've come to on most of these clubs.  A lot of these old guy's clubs just need to go away.  Their chairs will fill up with youth when they do and things will get done as usual.  Not taking too much away from the "old guys" but what I've witnessed here has run me out of these little shit show meetings...and I'm middle fucking aged!!!!  Ughhh....that hurts to admit.

@Ez ryder has a really good story on he and some "go getters" got their own club going.

[racer254]

8 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

No, they do not.  I rotate my membership between three local clubs and no longer do any meetings.  I'm no "young buck" but have some good knowledge on how to recruit, retain and keep young members active.  Nobody really cares to listen.  Just a lot of old guys complaining about the young guys not doint their part IMO.  But when some young guys come to the meeting almost nobody goes out of their way to make them feel welcome.  ANd when they show up to work all they get a chance to do is shit/slave/go-fer work.  God forbid somwbody show them the groomer, or let them do youth classes, or anything that may be considered useful and fun.  It's an astonishing irony like I've never seen.

Bottom line, and this is what I've come to on most of these clubs.  A lot of these old guy's clubs just need to go away.  Their chairs will fill up with youth when they do and things will get done as usual.  Not taking too much away from the "old guys" but what I've witnessed here has run me out of these little shit show meetings...and I'm middle fucking aged!!!!  Ughhh....that hurts to admit.

@Ez ryder has a really good story on he and some "go getters" got their own club going.

Me and a couple other middle aged guys were discussing this last night over some beverages.  And yes, it sucks to say that word when referencing my age as well.

 

[MiSledder]

26 minutes ago, 01mxz800 said:

we welcome the input from the younger crowd, and are more than willing to let them take the reins, we have over 400 members in the club and the same 25 attend the meetings. We did have a work party last sun and a few kids showed up to help but that was mostly due to the fact our area schools have a community service requirement and helping the club quailfies for credit

We have the same program, flagging is all anyone will do

we have 150 memebers and 10 show up to meetings, Alot of our members are lifers who dont have to do jack shit

[MiSledder]

19 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

No, they do not.  I rotate my membership between three local clubs and no longer do any meetings.  I'm no "young buck" but have some good knowledge on how to recruit, retain and keep young members active.  Nobody really cares to listen.  Just a lot of old guys complaining about the young guys not doint their part IMO.  But when some young guys come to the meeting almost nobody goes out of their way to make them feel welcome.  ANd when they show up to work all they get a chance to do is shit/slave/go-fer work.  God forbid somwbody show them the groomer, or let them do youth classes, or anything that may be considered useful and fun.  It's an astonishing irony like I've never seen.

Bottom line, and this is what I've come to on most of these clubs.  A lot of these old guy's clubs just need to go away.  Their chairs will fill up with youth when they do and things will get done as usual.  Not taking too much away from the "old guys" but what I've witnessed here has run me out of these little shit show meetings...and I'm middle fucking aged!!!!  Ughhh....that hurts to admit.

@Ez ryder has a really good story on he and some "go getters" got their own club going.

When a new member shows interest in being part of our club we try to bring them into the inner circle so to speak and include him, make them feel life thy're needed etc. but most new members attitude is that of a customer

 

but Im willing to listen to some ideas

Edited November 29, 2017 by MiSledder

[Zambroski]

16 minutes ago, MiSledder said:

When a new member shows interest in being part of our club we try to bring them into the inner circle so to speak and include him, make them feel life thy're needed etc. but most new members attitude is that of a customer

 

but Im willing to listen to some ideas

That's what it takes though.  It's tough for some "newbie" to speak freely and participate when he doesn't even know how it works yet.  These 20 somethings are about "gas and go"..and not much else.  It takes time.  Not to mention, and let's face it here...this is a generation that is easily rattled and kinda fragile IMO.  But, I've literally witnessed them being made to stand in the corner their first (and last) meeting.  Some of these guys running this show like a board room is a god damn joke like I've never seen before. 

Something else I noticed too.  When it comes time for trail work, a lot of times these guys schedule shit during workl hours during the week.  Not sure why they think these kids can make that work.  And I've seen them fuck that up and I'm available all the god damn time.  Schedule, resechedule, fucked up..no material...reschedule.  Fuck..after a while, I'm not gonna be on god damn stand-by myself.

It's gonna take everybody working a bit harder and smarter to keet this sport going.  I'm in...but I'm only gonna go a little more than half way.  If it takes more than that...ALL THE TIME.  We need better people on the other half.

 

 

[bussman]

I’d say 50. Sad really, but today’s youth look at screens, not nature or getting together in person. 

[racer254]

4 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

That's what it takes though.  It's tough for some "newbie" to speak freely and participate when he doesn't even know how it works yet.  These 20 somethings are about "gas and go"..and not much else.  It takes time.  Not to mention, and let's face it here...this is a generation that is easily rattled and kinda fragile IMO.  But, I've literally witnessed them being made to stand in the corner their first (and last) meeting.  Some of these guys running this show like a board room is a god damn joke like I've never seen before. 

Something else I noticed too.  When it comes time for trail work, a lot of times these guys schedule shit during workl hours during the week.  Not sure why they think these kids can make that work.  And I've seen them fuck that up and I'm available all the god damn time.  Schedule, resechedule, fucked up..no material...reschedule.  Fuck..after a while, I'm not gonna be on god damn stand-by myself.

It's gonna take everybody working a bit harder and smarter to keet this sport going.  I'm in...but I'm only gonna go a little more than half way.  If it takes more than that...ALL THE TIME.  We need better people on the other half.

 

 

Yep, seen this many times.

It's funny, because something that alienated a lot of members in one club that I belong to is happening the exact same way in another that I belong to now because of that first clubs decisions.  It's making it easy to just pay the extra for registration and not belong to either club   No one seems to learn from others and their mistakes.

[01mxz800]

7 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

That's what it takes though.  It's tough for some "newbie" to speak freely and participate when he doesn't even know how it works yet.  These 20 somethings are about "gas and go"..and not much else.  It takes time.  Not to mention, and let's face it here...this is a generation that is easily rattled and kinda fragile IMO.  But, I've literally witnessed them being made to stand in the corner their first (and last) meeting.  Some of these guys running this show like a board room is a god damn joke like I've never seen before. 

Something else I noticed too.  When it comes time for trail work, a lot of times these guys schedule shit during workl hours during the week.  Not sure why they think these kids can make that work.  And I've seen them fuck that up and I'm available all the god damn time.  Schedule, resechedule, fucked up..no material...reschedule.  Fuck..after a while, I'm not gonna be on god damn stand-by myself.

It's gonna take everybody working a bit harder and smarter to keet this sport going.  I'm in...but I'm only gonna go a little more than half way.  If it takes more than that...ALL THE TIME.  We need better people on the other half.

 

 

sounds like your clubs had some real communication issues, when a new person comes to our meeting we have them introduce themselves and let them know their opinions DO matter and any input from them is considered the same as a long term members is, we also encourage them to get involved. I am a past president and currently a board member and I value EVERYBODIES opinion. While we do have clubs in the area that it's the old guys way or no way but we try to include everybody in our decission making be it emails or mailings or postings on our website

[Zambroski]

Let's do just a couple of recruiting/retention ideas here:

• Set up a trail side recruiting/donation weenie roast at a good interesection or popular watering hole (permission needed).  Don't set all the damn old timers out there in chairs, get the young guys to do it.  NOT ALL DAY.  Let them float in for an hour or two and eat all the fucking 25 cent hot dogs they want  Hell, even brand new members would be interested in doing that.  (something I've seen them "not qualified" for in the past ),  
• When you get a newbie..HOOK EM'!!  Get them out in that groomer ASAP..even for a quick ride along.  Let them park their sled in a safe spot and meet you...or a road close by for a meet up.  Give'em a spin at the wheel.  I know, it's scary but HOOK THEM!  They should expect they aren't going out the next night for 6-8 hours on their own.
• Give them a run down of costs and man hours involved.  Show them the terrirtory that is managed and what it tikes to manage it.  GET THEM VESTED!!!
• How about go simple?  Buy them a god damn beer after the meeting...or during.  Why the fuck some of these clubs are run like an AA meeting is another big "fuck off" BTW.
• Meetings:  get to the fucking points...take the minutes and get into the fun BS sessions.  For Christ's fucking sakes already.
• If your club sponsors/helps out with kid licensing...GET ALL THE NEWBIES THERE TO HELP.  Everybody likes doing that and helping the kids out.  Not sure how this became an "earned" job one has to "pay their dues" to get.  STOOOOPID.
• You think all these kids want to do is break their backs while somebody else does all the fun chainsaw and cut work on the trail?  No.  Let them bring their shit and USE it.  OR, give them yours and let them fly...unless they are retards of course.  And no, they aren't all retards.  If SeRena shows up, just have him snip grass with rounded sissors.  Other than that...most thise kids know their way around the shed tools pretty well.

I know a lot of this falls outside of all of the comfort zones...and takes a bit of effort.  But..how else is it gonna change?

We should consider "pinning" a thread like this.

[Ez ryder]

2 hours ago, 01mxz800 said:

What is the average ages of thee guy doing the trail work in your clubs? In our club the guys doing a majority of the trail work is 50 and up, we are trying to figure out ways to get younger blood taking the baton any suggestions?

in our club I would say 38 to 60. we have a few young guys .1 enrichment is tell them you are always looking for guys to drive the groomer . we are in a metro aria so a thing young guys like is they are alowed to drive there atv on all the streets during trail duty . I won' lik I like that also lol. you won' get them with out a social media presence that is a fact . you need to have a web page a Facebook a Instagram etc and put a kid in charge if it and don' micro manage them . put them in charg of a trail section . if your trail goes by a or close to a school talk with school administrators  about the importane of snowobile safey how your club adds to safey and awareess get a trail to the school and ask the school to allow paking of sleds,at school but only is student or teacher is in a club . 

get an early discounts at snowobile safey training if you are in the club . free membership in club if they do x amount of hours . 

don' be a old dick if they do show up at a meeting. include them right off the bat and actuall listen to what they have to say . if they 're having fu feeling included do t feel like they have to hide there actions ie drinking or getting high they will bring there friends 

[racer254]

26 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Let's do just a couple of recruiting/retention ideas here:

• Set up a trail side recruiting/donation weenie roast at a good interesection or popular watering hole (permission needed).  Don't set all the damn old timers out there in chairs, get the young guys to do it.  NOT ALL DAY.  Let them float in for an hour or two and eat all the fucking 25 cent hot dogs they want  Hell, even brand new members would be interested in doing that.  (something I've seen them "not qualified" for in the past ),  
• When you get a newbie..HOOK EM'!!  Get them out in that groomer ASAP..even for a quick ride along.  Let them park their sled in a safe spot and meet you...or a road close by for a meet up.  Give'em a spin at the wheel.  I know, it's scary but HOOK THEM!  They should expect they aren't going out the next night for 6-8 hours on their own.
• Give them a run down of costs and man hours involved.  Show them the terrirtory that is managed and what it tikes to manage it.  GET THEM VESTED!!!
• How about go simple?  Buy them a god damn beer after the meeting...or during.  Why the fuck some of these clubs are run like an AA meeting is another big "fuck off" BTW.
• Meetings:  get to the fucking points...take the minutes and get into the fun BS sessions.  For Christ's fucking sakes already.
• If your club sponsors/helps out with kid licensing...GET ALL THE NEWBIES THERE TO HELP.  Everybody likes doing that and helping the kids out.  Not sure how this became an "earned" job one has to "pay their dues" to get.  STOOOOPID.
• You think all these kids want to do is break their backs while somebody else does all the fun chainsaw and cut work on the trail?  No.  Let them bring their shit and USE it.  OR, give them yours and let them fly...unless they are retards of course.  And no, they aren't all retards.  If SeRena shows up, just have him snip grass with rounded sissors.  Other than that...most thise kids know their way around the shed tools pretty well.

I know a lot of this falls outside of all of the comfort zones...and takes a bit of effort.  But..how else is it gonna change?

We should consider "pinning" a thread like this.

Most want to do that and I love the idea of letting them run it.  I don't understand why the groomer seems like the holy grail to some of these club members.

Also, another thing that I think needs to happen is to have meetings at businesses/establishments that support the club if you can.  Some years these businesses may not see much from there sponsorship, if you can have a meeting at the place at least they know you are trying to make the support mutual.

[SVT MXZ XRS]

1 hour ago, Zambroski said:

Let's do just a couple of recruiting/retention ideas here:

• Set up a trail side recruiting/donation weenie roast at a good interesection or popular watering hole (permission needed).  Don't set all the damn old timers out there in chairs, get the young guys to do it.  NOT ALL DAY.  Let them float in for an hour or two and eat all the fucking 25 cent hot dogs they want  Hell, even brand new members would be interested in doing that.  (something I've seen them "not qualified" for in the past ),  
• When you get a newbie..HOOK EM'!!  Get them out in that groomer ASAP..even for a quick ride along.  Let them park their sled in a safe spot and meet you...or a road close by for a meet up.  Give'em a spin at the wheel.  I know, it's scary but HOOK THEM!  They should expect they aren't going out the next night for 6-8 hours on their own.
• Give them a run down of costs and man hours involved.  Show them the terrirtory that is managed and what it tikes to manage it.  GET THEM VESTED!!!
• How about go simple?  Buy them a god damn beer after the meeting...or during.  Why the fuck some of these clubs are run like an AA meeting is another big "fuck off" BTW.
• Meetings:  get to the fucking points...take the minutes and get into the fun BS sessions.  For Christ's fucking sakes already.
• If your club sponsors/helps out with kid licensing...GET ALL THE NEWBIES THERE TO HELP.  Everybody likes doing that and helping the kids out.  Not sure how this became an "earned" job one has to "pay their dues" to get.  STOOOOPID.
• You think all these kids want to do is break their backs while somebody else does all the fun chainsaw and cut work on the trail?  No.  Let them bring their shit and USE it.  OR, give them yours and let them fly...unless they are retards of course.  And no, they aren't all retards.  If SeRena shows up, just have him snip grass with rounded sissors.  Other than that...most thise kids know their way around the shed tools pretty well.

I know a lot of this falls outside of all of the comfort zones...and takes a bit of effort.  But..how else is it gonna change?

We should consider "pinning" a thread like this.