Keystone Pipeline

[Dave]

3 hours ago, Jimmy Snacks said:

Thanks Tom....I found you answer to be a tad bit more informative than Stinky's.

 

There are a lot of bad welders out there but I'm sure the same could be said about any occupation.

[bussman]

Did they catch the liberals that sabotaged this thing yet? 

[Sal Rosenberg]

14 minutes ago, BEANPOLE DAVE said:

There are a lot of bad welders out there but I'm sure the same could be said about any occupation.

 

My Nephew just started a new career with some company that inspects welds of all things    I gues it's mostly for Gas lines and such , but probly shit like this too .    Awesome money and bennies and the kid is loving it . 

[Woodtick]

17 minutes ago, BEANPOLE DAVE said:

There are a lot of bad welders out there but I'm sure the same could be said about any occupation.

Not on pipelines. Most if not all are X Rayed.

[AKIQPilot]

42 minutes ago, Woodtick said:

Not on pipelines. Most if not all are X Rayed.

Pipeline welders have a pass fail ratio that follows them everywhere they go. A 2% fail ratio is about the limit that most pipeline companies will allow.  I know that on the high pressure gas pipeline that I modified for BP, my very last job as a BP employee, we specified that all welders had to have a 99% pass ratio and they couldn't have more than 50 welds since their last failure.  Once we found 8 welders that made the cut we made them all qualify to the exact procedure we were going to use on the pipeline.  It took almost 30 days to get all 8 welders prepared for our job.  The welders don't care they get paid to test and qualify so it's all good for them.  BP does 100% xray and hydrotest for all of their pipelines in Alaska.  

[Sal Rosenberg]

10 hours ago, Jimmy Snacks said:

Maybe a dumb question but when these pipelines are being built are those welds difficult or complex?

 

Probly some toughguy out there in a 79 C10 with a Lincoln stickwelder and a butt hangin outta his mouth . 

[Rod]

Sure better than by rail. Nobody got hurt, and cleanup will be easy. 

[Woodtick]

14 minutes ago, Sal Rosenberg said:

 

Probly some toughguy out there in a 79 C10 with a Lincoln stickwelder and a butt hangin outta his mouth . 

 

[Sal Rosenberg]

1 minute ago, Woodtick said:

 

 

[hayward]

7 hours ago, AKIQPilot said:

Yes, this pipeline was equipped with a Leak Detection System.  Federal code requires routine inspection and testing of the leak detection system.  The LDS must be monitored by a qualified technician every second of the day and every day of the year.  The LDS must be able to detect a leak of 1% of throughput within 5 minutes of the leak occurring.  THe tech monitoring the LDS must respond to the leak alarm immediately and implement the procedures set forth in the Leak Detection Monitoring protocol.  This is all very closely regulated by the federal government department called PHMSA. 

I don't know the throughput of this section of pipeline but lets say it's 100,000 BPD.  The LDS would have to detect a leak of 1000 BPD.  According to the article the spill is 5000 bbls.  That means the leak was either very large or it leaked for several days.  My guess is a very large leak that was recognized immediately.  If that's the case we then need to look at what the pressure was on the pipeline at the time of the leak.  The pipeline has over pressure protection systems that shut in flow well before the pressure gets to a dangerous level.  All the maintenance records for all this equipment will be subpoenaed by the Feds as part of their investigation.  

 About what kind of pressure is in a line like this?

[sledderj]

8 hours ago, AKIQPilot said:

Yes, this pipeline was equipped with a Leak Detection System.  Federal code requires routine inspection and testing of the leak detection system.  The LDS must be monitored by a qualified technician every second of the day and every day of the year.  The LDS must be able to detect a leak of 1% of throughput within 5 minutes of the leak occurring.  THe tech monitoring the LDS must respond to the leak alarm immediately and implement the procedures set forth in the Leak Detection Monitoring protocol.  This is all very closely regulated by the federal government department called PHMSA. 

I don't know the throughput of this section of pipeline but lets say it's 100,000 BPD.  The LDS would have to detect a leak of 1000 BPD.  According to the article the spill is 5000 bbls.  That means the leak was either very large or it leaked for several days.  My guess is a very large leak that was recognized immediately.  If that's the case we then need to look at what the pressure was on the pipeline at the time of the leak.  The pipeline has over pressure protection systems that shut in flow well before the pressure gets to a dangerous level.  All the maintenance records for all this equipment will be subpoenaed by the Feds as part of their investigation.  

 

Pretty sure I read the capacity is 600,000 a day, so 5000 sounds right to the 1% regulation.  I would imagine the minimum amount leaked after detection would be dependent on the proximity to the nearest isolation valve?  Distance between pump stations is like 50 miles, so if that's where the valves are located, there could be quite a bit of volume in just the 30 inch pipeline itself, never mind what gets pumped before detection and during the shut down procedure.  

FWIW, I think their previous leak was determined to be a weld failure.

 

 

[AKIQPilot]

4 hours ago, hayward said:

 About what kind of pressure is in a line like this?

Well I don't know for sure but I would guess that this pipeline is designed to ANSI 300# spec's.  That would mean a Max Allowable Operating Pressure of 740psi.  If it's ANSI 300# then design pressure of the pipeline and related equipment is somewhere in the 2200psi.  It probably operates between 500 and 600psi.  Maybe lower than 500 right before a pump station or on the down hill side of an decline.  

4 hours ago, sledderj said:

 

Pretty sure I read the capacity is 600,000 a day, so 5000 sounds right to the 1% regulation.  I would imagine the minimum amount leaked after detection would be dependent on the proximity to the nearest isolation valve?  Distance between pump stations is like 50 miles, so if that's where the valves are located, there could be quite a bit of volume in just the 30 inch pipeline itself, never mind what gets pumped before detection and during the shut down procedure.  

FWIW, I think their previous leak was determined to be a weld failure.

 

 

Yea that all sounds about right Jason.  When you're moving over half a million bbls per day it doesn't take much of an incident to have these kinds of consequences.  600,000 BPD = 25,000 BPH.  That is equivalent to the pipeline running for 12 minutes after the leak began.  So it seems like the pipeline operator responded immediately to the LDS Alarm and the volume of the spill is based on the location of the closest valve or EFRD, Emergency Flow Restriction Device, just like Jay said.  

For the math heads in the group.  Above 12", a pipelines volume can be estimated with a simple formula.  Diameter (in inches) squared is the bbls per 1000'.  So in this case 30x30 = 900 bbls per 1000'. So the volume of about 1 mile of the pipeline breached the line and soiled the ground.  A pipeline is typically hundreds if not thousands of miles long.  There are valves, EFRD's, placed at strategic points like near schools or public areas or waterways or rivers, etc.etc.  But there are not valves every few miles.  In fact I am sure some areas may go hundreds of miles between EFRD's.  What the Feds require from pipeline operators and constructors is a fate and transport study.  IF the engineering data says that an oil spill of 5xxxxbbls will contaminate 10's of thousands of acres over dozens of miles then the pipeline construction must include EFRD's at a specific interval.  When the fate and transport study shows that the pipeline won't empty itself because of natural elevation changes in the terra then EFRD's can be at greater distances.  

Another tidbit.  If the pipeline is 30" in diameter and it's flowing 600,000 bpd then the fluids are traveling about 7.7 ft/second inside the pipe.  That's moving at a brisk hustle 24/7.   

[Woodtick]

I guarantee my welds for 15psi or 15 minutes , what ever comes first.

[Mileage Psycho]

On 11/16/2017 at 7:27 PM, AKIQPilot said:

Wow. This is not good. Any amount of oil on the ground is bad but 210000 gallons is a huge spill. That amount of oul will cover a couple of acres easily. Much more if water is involved. 

TC is gonna have to cough up inspection, maintenance and emergency response documents on this one. They better hope that have their shit in a row. 

Hope the cleanup goes well and the impact is minimal. 

It makes sense that the folks in Nebraska have an issue with a pipeline running near the Ogallala Aquifier, I'm with you and hope that the impact is minimal.

[AKIQPilot]

3 hours ago, Mileage Psycho said:

It makes sense that the folks in Nebraska have an issue with a pipeline running near the Ogallala Aquifier, I'm with you and hope that the impact is minimal.

Ummm, there are pipelines running across, under, adjacent to every major aquifer in the US.  There is even a pipeline running across the Ogallala aquifer presently.  Americans consume mass quantities of oil and refined products.  Gotta get those consumables to market some way.  

Check out your little piece of paradise.  Hydrocarbon pipelines going every direction under Chicago.  These are just the big regulated pipelines.  These maps don't show the 10's of thousands of gathering lines that connect wells to the facilities.  

 

 

[sledderj]

9 hours ago, AKIQPilot said:

Well I don't know for sure but I would guess that this pipeline is designed to ANSI 300# spec's.  That would mean a Max Allowable Operating Pressure of 740psi.  If it's ANSI 300# then design pressure of the pipeline and related equipment is somewhere in the 2200psi.  It probably operates between 500 and 600psi.  Maybe lower than 500 right before a pump station or on the down hill side of an decline.  

Yea that all sounds about right Jason.  When you're moving over half a million bbls per day it doesn't take much of an incident to have these kinds of consequences.  600,000 BPD = 25,000 BPH.  That is equivalent to the pipeline running for 12 minutes after the leak began.  So it seems like the pipeline operator responded immediately to the LDS Alarm and the volume of the spill is based on the location of the closest valve or EFRD, Emergency Flow Restriction Device, just like Jay said.  

For the math heads in the group.  Above 12", a pipelines volume can be estimated with a simple formula.  Diameter (in inches) squared is the bbls per 1000'.  So in this case 30x30 = 900 bbls per 1000'. So the volume of about 1 mile of the pipeline breached the line and soiled the ground.  A pipeline is typically hundreds if not thousands of miles long.  There are valves, EFRD's, placed at strategic points like near schools or public areas or waterways or rivers, etc.etc.  But there are not valves every few miles.  In fact I am sure some areas may go hundreds of miles between EFRD's.  What the Feds require from pipeline operators and constructors is a fate and transport study.  IF the engineering data says that an oil spill of 5xxxxbbls will contaminate 10's of thousands of acres over dozens of miles then the pipeline construction must include EFRD's at a specific interval.  When the fate and transport study shows that the pipeline won't empty itself because of natural elevation changes in the terra then EFRD's can be at greater distances.  

Another tidbit.  If the pipeline is 30" in diameter and it's flowing 600,000 bpd then the fluids are traveling about 7.7 ft/second inside the pipe.  That's moving at a brisk hustle 24/7.   

 

I always wondered how they shut the lines down in emergency situations.  There is a shit ton of kinetic energy in a line with that much volume running at that kind of velocity.  On an alarm, I assume you would have to slowly ramp things down.  That kind of energy having nowhere to go would blow things apart in a hurry.